The unfaithful wife...that's me..

[Mellenmack]

lmao. "threat"!!!

and no pun intended, I'm sure!!!!

I saw the new thread. Noticed that you posted here instead of Newcomers. Worry about you not getting the exposure you might get over there, but I know I feel better here. Jeez. It's a forum, it shouldn't matter. In theory, it should be the same in all places, right? But I know it's not.

My master's. I want to share, but it's scary. I work at the high school and work with guidance counselors. I discovered they get paid good money to have a totally skate job. So that's what I got into. School counseling. I love the kids. Their problems are so simple for the most part - recommendation letters for schools, employers and scholarships, etc, schedule changes. These kids are amazing and their lives are so - uncomplicated right now for the most part. So that's what I chose.

I'll ask but you don't have to share if you don't want. What do you do? I thought you said something military, but then maybe I am reaching too far back. Just with the testing, that's what it seemed like. Don't mean to pry. We focus so much on all of Rs on here sometimes, that it feels like it just consumes us. Forget there are people out there who oftentimes just want to be known.

Mel

[K4D]

Thats cool. I am an analyst for a healthcare company. I am looking to move into a business analyst role or a marketing analyst role. I am also studying C# and ASP.Net 2 high profile languages and database systems. The programming pays about double what I am making now and also pays what my W is making and the business analyst pays what she is making also. I'm not sure that I will get the business analyst position. But we'll see. The marketing analyst if I get the interview pays almost as much, but not quite. Still plenty to live on though and build up savings. I am really having to set up my future now that the second income looks like it is probably going away.

Before what I was making was fine because my W is working to. But now, trying to raise 2 kids on my own, I have to improve the financial situation.

If I go the programming route, I will eventually turn it into a senior programming analyst. Then my future would be totally set. I don't care for Dallas where I live. But there are perks. My kids are here because this is where my W wants to live and the jobs are unlimited. So no worries about keeping employed. Just gotta make sure I stay on top of the top paying jobs out there.

I gave my W the business analyst position she has now originally because I was laid off and had a great severance package and was just messing around with contract work. The agency originally came to me for it and she hated her job, so I suggested her figuring either way it goes into the same bank account and helps us out. Little did I know she was going to use that job to D me and find OM higher up than me. Hindsight. Geez. She is all into upperscale image and party now. None of us can look normal anymore in public. She spends so much money to look good. $110 haircuts, bikini waxes, upscale clothes, eating out nice restaurants, etc. The money has totally changed her. I never thought I would see that. She started working out again. She hasn't done that since I caught her seeing OM back in October. Makes me wonder.

She has emotionally detached from me and I guess this money and OM has helped in that process. She no longer feels like she needs me. She loves to spend money though. I asked her if I get this BA position, it would basically double what I make if she would reconsider. She got very mad at me and said I was calling her a prositute. I wasn't. I was thinking we could have a really bright future together and get a great retirement set up. Probably was a dumb thing to ask. I took a long shot and it just backfired like everything els.

I actually love and prefer Florida. Either Orlando or Tampa. There are lots of good jobs out there to along with beaches and pretty areas. Houses are more pricey, but as long as the pay is there, no biggie. But I am stuck here in Dallas for the next 11 years until my 7 year old daughter turns 18. If my wife has remarried, I'll probably head down that way at that point. I also love Daytona Beach and the theme parks in Orlando. Life is so laid back there.

Kevin

[K4D]

Thats cool. I am an analyst for a healthcare company. I am looking to move into a business analyst role or a marketing analyst role. I am also studying C# and ASP.Net 2 high profile languages and database systems. The programming pays about double what I am making now and also pays what my W is making and the business analyst pays what she is making also. I'm not sure that I will get the business analyst position. But we'll see. The marketing analyst if I get the interview pays almost as much, but not quite. Still plenty to live on though and build up savings. I am really having to set up my future now that the second income looks like it is probably going away.

Before what I was making was fine because my W is working to. But now, trying to raise 2 kids on my own, I have to improve the financial situation.

If I go the programming route, I will eventually turn it into a senior programming analyst. Then my future would be totally set. I don't care for Dallas where I live. But there are perks. My kids are here because this is where my W wants to live and the jobs are unlimited. So no worries about keeping employed. Just gotta make sure I stay on top of the top paying jobs out there.

I gave my W the business analyst position she has now originally because I was laid off and had a great severance package and was just messing around with contract work. The agency originally came to me for it and she hated her job, so I suggested her figuring either way it goes into the same bank account and helps us out. Little did I know she was going to use that job to D me and find OM higher up than me. Hindsight. Geez. She is all into upperscale image and party now. None of us can look normal anymore in public. She spends so much money to look good. $110 haircuts, bikini waxes, upscale clothes, eating out nice restaurants, etc. The money has totally changed her. I never thought I would see that. She started working out again. She hasn't done that since I caught her seeing OM back in October. Makes me wonder.

She has emotionally detached from me and I guess this money and OM has helped in that process. She no longer feels like she needs me. She loves to spend money though. I asked her if I get this BA position, it would basically double what I make if she would reconsider. She got very mad at me and said I was calling her a prositute. I wasn't. I was thinking we could have a really bright future together and get a great retirement set up. Probably was a dumb thing to ask. I took a long shot and it just backfired like everything els.

I actually love and prefer Florida. Either Orlando or Tampa. There are lots of good jobs out there to along with beaches and pretty areas. Houses are more pricey, but as long as the pay is there, no biggie. But I am stuck here in Dallas for the next 11 years until my 7 year old daughter turns 18. If my wife has remarried, I'll probably head down that way at that point. I also love Daytona Beach and the theme parks in Orlando. Life is so laid back there.

Kevin

[25yearsmlc]

Mel,
sorry it took me awhile to find this thread again...anyhow, okay you've said so much for me to catch up with...
"Til death do us part" yeah I get that, that's fine. Except we also have the right to set and enforce healthy boundaries. Enough with your A...drop it. Seriously I don't condone them (Who the hell does?) but all A's are NOT alike and besides, it's over and you are not defending it, you are not rationalizing it and you are no longer doing it. Why is it even an issue TODAY?? Oh, wait, I forgot. YOUR H throws it in your face every time you try to enforce a boundary with him...
and it's interesting that he found out about the A and around the same time, OW or the renter or whatever...moved in and is still there...hmmm, talk about pay back. Well, seems like you are more than even now, okay?

SO, you can't change the past. You don't have the same scorecards so you won't see your marital history the same way anyhow...what matters is now and how you carry on forward. Regardless of the m, you have d4, right? So you "must" deal with each other. But I think going dark makes sense. Obviously you can't ignore stuff about D4 but everything else is more or less off the table if it's too painful for you.

So, you can say a couple things, and here are some suggestions, go with what feels true for you, "h, for now you don't want to be m, so we're co-parents and you'll always be d4's father...but I am setting some healthy boundaries for us and I really need to enforce them for my own well being. I am responsible for my reactions and some behaviors bring out unhealthy reactions in me, like seeing you drink, or seeing you with ow, and then pretending she isn't an ow".


"I'm not alone in causing damage to the m, and anger isn't helpful to our sitch or our daughter..."
Oh of course you fear he'll throw his nuclear bomb in your face and, if he throws it out in your face, saying - "YOU are the one who had the A" you can say "Yeah I was, and as you know I regret it, but that's in the past, and I'm done talking about it[/b" His "data" is from the past, not about today, so it is not relevant. And
What's the point if he's so determined to not be married anyhow?

Also Mel, he IS the one being Mr.Spiteful and doing the whole passive/aggressive thing, flaunting ow and being matter of factly cool to you in public, and then asking you if you are okay. He isn't enforcing a "healthy boundary" is he? I mean am I missing something here? Maybe next time he says "are you okay?" You can text back "why wouldn't I be?" or "what do you mean?"

OR YOU COULD SAY THIS INSTEAD.....
(((( "Oh, am I 'okay'?? you mean b/c you were w/ ow again, in my face, and our daughter's, being with her rather than 'us', and barely speaking to me...[b]and then playing this sadistic game...is that what you mean by 'ok'??? You mean am I OKAY with THAT?!!....just wondering"....)))) btw, that last part is maybe NOT what you should say, but you can think it...

there's more to this story but your approach is, at least, better for you. Sometimes that's all you can say about an approach. Meaning, when someone says "is that working?" You may have to answer, "it is for ME" and that is all you have control over now.

Marianne Williamson is an author with some good exercises/books on getting rid of anger and handling fear, etc. She's new agey for some but I found her helpful.
The anger and pain will ruin our lives if we let it. It has to be managed, or purged or whatever - HANDLED - and we are the only ones who can do that. I recall reading about saying out loud (I chose the shower so no one heard me, for obvious reasons...) "God, I turn my pain/anger over to you" or "Turn this M over to you" b/c frankly it was too much for me and my heart at the time. I can understand your desire for the pain to end. Forgiving and detaching isn't easy b/c think about your childhood.

How much forgiveness did you actually witness or learn from your family growing up? I sure didn't have much. The lack of conflict resolution in my own family growing up, between my parents at least, was a serious obstacle for h and I and it came out years ago in a workshop we attended. We did not know how to forgive or resolve a conflict!! My parents had "choreographed" fights over the same things for DECADES...and dad would "win" b/c he'd yell more and louder... they'd attack and retreat...and nothing improved. The R's with both parents suffered for the kids b/c we saw them in their worst light. Which reminds me, your d is watching you respond to your pain. She'll eventually know the issues and will learn that you can be deeply hurt, and yet survive. Your pain is not eternal, it is not fatal, and you already know this. Just know that your d is watching you and will surely ask questions a few years from now. When SHE brings up issues you can saw "we both made mistakes" and "If I could do it over, I'd do it differently" etc. Don't ever assume all the responsibility for the div, if that is what comes. Your daughter, someday, will "get it" and you don't have to say a negative thing to her about daddy. You shouldn't anyhow. She needs to know her daddy loves her and will be around for her, even if he lives a few miles away. Reassure her that you will always live with her (if that's true) and the floor isn't being yanked out from under her, you'll be fine and she'll be fine, etc. Have you read the book "What About the Kids?" it's helpful but it does argue against divorce so skip that part IF YOU WANT, and go to handling the kids in this sitch. Your h will feel pressured if you ask him to read the first chunk of the book, but whatev...


With my h, I hated it when h would act clueless after doing/saying things that would bug anyone. It is passive aggressive or at least conflict avoidant to the extreme.

I could not have survived this ordeal, without getting rid of my anger/pain b/c the anger was "winning" or beating me, consuming me and my energy and my time. I was distracted at times with d's b/c I was upset and pre-occupied. So they were losing TWO parents. That just sucks. It makes the h's crappy behavior, which is hard enough for us to deal with, worse but by our own hand, if you know what I mean.

You are right to set boundaries, but keep them clear for yourself (and him) and figure out ways ahead of time, for you to enforce them. Be prepared for that. And don't over talk or over think with him. He's so confused and wacky right now. You don't need to focus on him; you have your career/classes and a child to nurture.

WAY down the road, you'll date again. Why worry now, about how you'll converse with each other then? I mean all you have is now. Make it as good for you and your daughter as you can. Ask yourself this: as your h is now, today, would you like to spend the rest of your life with this man?

So, try to lose the anger in front of h. When he talks to you, listen like a "friend" (DB coach used the word "lover" but that sounds like too much for you now, since you are also wanting to go semi-dark, fyi) but you are a "friend" who is busy GAL, upbeat, positive and sure of herself and where SHE is going in life, connecting meaningfully with others, touching their lives, enriching and being enriched by others, and moving forward b/c she has interesting things to do, exciting places to go and fun, fascinating people to meet!! ...


End the conversations as quickly as you can without being rude. Stay focussed on the child and not the R. Do not initiate R talk and if he does, unless it's factual like "I'm filing for D," or "Want to restore the M", don't let the vague exploratory questions hit you. Just wait until if and when he gets specific. He will have to someday, for better or worse. Until then, you'll essentially "be a woman only a fool would leave."

good luck, and believe me when I say that your anger can be very deep, permeating and painful as hell...and you can still heal from it and eventually let it go. You'll have to do it anyhow if you want to be happy again. May as well start now...
j-

[Mellenmack]

J,

I want to cut and paste all your posts into a word doc and haul it around with me everywhere. That would make me feel good!!
Today he wanted to start off emailing again and it went two rounds before I finally said "We are all fine. Thank you for asking. Have a good day!" Personally, I would have stopped there if I had received he but he was nice and sent one back that just said "You too." Of course I didn't respond. Earlier he had said that he wants to be able to ask about D4 in the mornings and at night. It just seems excessive to me. I think tomorrow I will tell him that if he wants to check on her, he needs to call and talk to HER, not text ME. He is putting me in the loop when it is not as necessary as he makes it.

I felt like I let go of most of the anger when I wrote the letter. When I put the success or failure of this marriage on his shoulders, my anger dissipated a great deal.

As for D4, she acts oblivious. She is a very happy and mostly well adjusted child, when she is just being herself.

LMAO over your responses to tell him "Do you mean am I okay with that!??" I prolly won't use the last bit, but I will be totally muttering it under my breath. But the responses give me a good idea for a script to have in place so that I don't even have to be shell-shocked for a moment.

My parents. I don't even know where to start about how they were. Dad never got home before 7pm and was gone before I got up at 6:30am. Farmer's life. He would come home and take off his boots. Mom would finish up supper and deliver it to either the table or his chair in the living room. A glass of tea was put in his hands almost upon entry to the house. We gave up 1/2 days every Saturday and sometimes more. Sundays were the only days we had for sure, and sometimes we lost those mornings, too. I don't remember them ever arguing although I am sure they did. They prolly just never did it in front of me. They loved me a lot. I knew that. I still know that. I saw her give a lot (Acts of Service). I saw him provide an income, although she worked, too. She loves him like there is no tomorrow. If/when something happens to him (it has been 20 years since quadruple bypass surgery) I don't expect her to make it 6 months without him. They are 59 this year. He would remarry within a year or two if something happened to her. It's not that he doesn't love her. He does, a lot, by his own admission. It's just her. She won't come visit me (9 hours away, closest we have ever lived. being military, i know you know how CLOSE this really is) because she can't be away from him for more than 1 night, by her own admission. She just doesn't want to be.

I guess I just never saw them interract very much, now that I think about it. What I mean is, by the time he didn't get home til 7 and I was in bed by 9, how much time am I really witnessing other than those two hours a day? When we went on vacation, it was always about what they wanted to do, never about me or all of us as a family. We went to the coast so they could go fishing on the boat and I was dang lucky if they took me to the beach for one afternoon out of the seven days. An amusement park??? lmao at the mere suggestion of it. didn't happen. so maybe that's part of where i get my everyone else first and me last beliefs. it's easy to see. i went to school (college) where they wanted me to go, not where i wanted to go. you may be on to something. ugh. something else to think about and dissect.

Okay. I am off to continue reading about how i am codependent. Interesting reading, anyway. Thank you so much for your insight and feelings. J, you validate how I feel very well, even the things I don't say. It's amazing. Wish I knew how to cultivate better insight in myself and see things for what they really are instead of just accepting the exterior presentation. I really was very sheltered in many ways growing up.

Thank you again for the response.

Mel

[K4D]

Wow, thats pretty neat you grew up a farmers daughter. Don't hear about that to much anymore. I can see how you would have been sheltered in that life. But I don't think thats a bad thing.

I agree that he needs to call your daughter. I know I will be calling both of mine. I would love to call my W, but I know she won't want to hear from me.

Keep up the good work. Sounds like you are handling things great.

Kevin

[Bridgestone]

Dad never got home before 7pm and was gone before I got up at 6:30am. Farmer's life. He would come home and take off his boots. Mom would finish up supper and deliver it to either the table or his chair in the living room. A glass of tea was put in his hands almost upon entry to the house. We gave up 1/2 days every Saturday and sometimes more. Sundays were the only days we had for sure, and sometimes we lost those mornings, too. I don't remember them ever arguing although I am sure they did. They prolly just never did it in front of me. They loved me a lot. I knew that. I still know that. I saw her give a lot (Acts of Service). I saw him provide an income, although she worked, too.

Hi
I haven't posted to you before, but have read along on your sitch..

Your parents as I have cut & pasted above... WERE my H & I.
I'm so sorry.

I struggle with co-dependency issues as well, I'm betting your Mom does too.

It can & does get better. Working the 12 steps & finding support here from others that have walked this path has been my saving grace.

Peace
Bridge

[Purple]

I grew up a farmers daughter too. I know what you mean Mel.

[Mellenmack]

Got this this morning after no contact for 24 hours:

"You of course can respond if you desire. I just wanted to say hello. I will still continue to do so, and I don’t believe that is unrealistic to converse.

You mentioned the other night, that eventually marriages will come into the equation. That may be true for you later, however, I really have no intention of being married. My point here is, to say that I would rather deal with that eventuality then, and more importantly, still maintain a semblance of reason now…

You are absolutely right about trying every effort to make it better. I am sorry for being the way I am now. I truly am. "

Do I even respond? There is nothing about what he is willing to do. Nothing has changed. Any ideas? He's not really asking for anything, so I guess it would be realistic to not respond at all. It's almost like he's just fishing. He wants kind of to talk about R, but he's not willing to do anything different. Just leave it? Opinions, please!

Mel

[Mellenmack]

I do think he is just wanting to provoke me, looking for a reaction, maybe to see if it's sticking or not.

J/MLC, I just don't understand the point. What is the point with all this if there is no M or desire for R?? Why argue or talk about all these things if it is pointless. We are co-parents and that's it, in theory. Maybe it is just a time adjustment thing. Maybe he didn't believe me. Maybe he thought I would bend. I can't bend this time.

I sat down and thought awhile last night. Started reading that book Codependent no more. I about died when it listed the characteristics and I could check off over half. What has always frustrated me the most, is being in an argument or discussion with him and not knowing what to say to defend my stance or feeling like I've had my words twisted to say something else and used against me. It's like the first words get said and then I just can't think. I'm flooded. He likes to throw in my face the things he has done for me...agreeing to have D4 is a big one and the other one is that he agreed to the D. "And YET AGAIN, I am giving you what YOU want." he would tell me. Like he was the only one hurt. And now he says "And YET AGAIN, YOU want me to give you what YOU want." Like he's doing me some huge favor.

So I sat down and thought about a few things that I have done for him. I have kept the kids and the house and the dog and the yard when HE decided HE wouldn't feel complete without going over to fight in this war. I have continued to live in this town because HE is happy in HIS job and is happy here, although I have begged him to consider moving (when we'd only been here 6 months, I was ready to go.) Now we have been here 8 years, about to start our 9th year. Those are big things. When did my opinions matter then? They didn't. What he wanted overrode.

I know it is all give and take. I will continue to think of more things I have done, because right now they escape me. I know I have done, but because I was convinced that what I wanted didn't matter (he's the military member and I'm just along for the ride), I have forgotten many things. I want for a goal to be to remember what I did do. Is that silly?

Thanks for the help.

Mel