Another new topic! already? Here we go

[LoginName]

Hi Aud,
I'm still here, and so are you! I check your thread occassionally and haven't seen anything new there for a while. Maybe you're posting on other's threads?

It's harder for me to post, read, monitor these boards than it was before. I've picked a few folks, you being one of them, to try to keep track of. You're not making it easy though :). Maybe you should post on your thread or just fill me in.

I'm still on my own roller coaster. I came close to calling it quites just a couple of weeks ago. I'm not ready to settle for going back to the way it was before the bomb. I'm enjoying living alone too much, and my life too much, to put up with that again. And, just like the last 2 times or so, when my W saw I was ready to move on, she suddenly changed her tune. Now she is affectionate, says she is opening up to me, and wants to stay married and have me move to Arkansas with her. Humph. I'm happy for all that, but now the trust issue is coming up. Not trust about OM, I don't care about him, or others. Trust that she isn't still playing a game; the game we apparently were playing in the last years of our M and that I refuse to play anymore. Last year, about this time, she also decided she wanted me, was affectionate, and then it wore off and she was back to being nice but cold. Will this time be different?

I'm not really sad about this. I'm ready to move on, although I'd still like my M to work out. I'm not ready to settle for a cold, passionless marriage though. I'd rather be alone.

My kids are doing well and that helps me in my resolve. I don't have to settle for the kids.

I despair a little that this is just too big for my wife and me. Maybe the answers are there but we can't and don't see them. Maybe I'm just not imaginitive enough to see the answers. I've only this marriage and my parents as examples of how relationships work, and neither one is a good example. My W and I are good people, and we love each other, and we're facing a problem that we may not be able to overcome.

And, to top it off, I can see lot's of opportunities in my life without her. I actually felt a little sad when she started acting affectionate toward me. Do I have to give up my dreams again? Do I have to leave a place I love living in and move to Arkansas? Arkansas is nice, and a beautiful spot, but I've discovered I'm a city kid and I love living in Denver, downtown. And, I was looking forward to meeting new people.

Anyway, probably more than you were wanting or expecting and all about me. How about a little or a lot about you? How are you doing?

Thanks for dropping by, Aud. Hope to get caught up with you soon, and I really hope you're doing well.

[oldtimer]

So why don't they move to Denver?

[Aud31]

Thanks for the update Login. Sorry for the lack of updating on mine...there haven't been any significant changes in my sitch. Overall, it's good, I'm finding it easier to let go of expectations to some degree. Still need to work on boundaries and consequences, but overall, I'm happy and lucky to be where I am.

FWIW, I don't think you (or any of us) should settle for a cold, passionless marriage. One thing I've noticed in this whole process: there's almost always another way to look at things, more choices to make than you might think. The whole 'if you don't like where you're heading, change your direction' concept. So, if you don't like where you are, what are you thinking about doing?

[LoginName]

Oldtimer,
thanks for dropping by. I frequently read what you post to others and have learned from you. thanks. This has been a weekend of lots of talking between my W and me, which I guess is good. She says she wants to make us work, she wants us to be together, and she is looking for a job back in Denver. Chances are very slim though, and I'd hate her to give up a job she loves and then resent me over the years.

I think we could have a good marraige and live in different states. I think it is possible. And, I'd been willing to find a life for me in Arkansas. Just over time, without seeing what I wanted and not wanting to go back to the same M I had before the bomb, I'd started leaning heavily toward staying here.

We'll see where it goes. More in my response to Aud....

Aud, I'm glad your sitch is still rolling along, no terrible bumps or problems. That's good news (if I interpreted your post right). I really think it is possible to find our way to a good M/R, but it probably never gets easy. Maybe it can get easy for a few years, then hard work again. And, the more we learn and grow, the shorter and easier the hard times are.

Time for me to vent some more. :-)
So... My W has been turning on the love, and been convincing me, and I'd started to feel more optimistic. I bring up an issue about cell phones, why she doesn't want me on her plan even if it would save us money. I said I just wanted an answer, even if the answer is "none of your business". So, she gave me an answer. She still phones the OM on a regular basis.

Well, at least she told me. We've talked a lot today, by phone. I'm still optimistic overall. She called as I was writing that last paragraph. Now I'm exhausted. But, she wants me, she wants to make it work, she agrees we need passion and affection, she's looking for a job in Denver...

so tired. :-P It'll work out, I believe, it's just hard. And it should be. Something real and valuable takes effort. The easy solution wouldn't last.

I wanted to write more, explain my feelings, and my analysis of all this, but I'm too tired. But thanks guys. !!!!!

[Aud31]

She still phones the OM on a regular basis.

Blech. I know my H still converses with OW often, he's open about it, if I ask (he says they basically call him for IT help). I can't wrap my head around that one, it's a violation of my personal boundaries, and one of the things I haven't figured out a consequence for. We're doing good: do I threaten to end it all over occasional casual (?) conversations between him/her/her significant other?

Sorry, didn't mean to hi-jack, that comment just struck a nerve for me. I'm glad your W gave you a straight answer.

I think it says a lot that she's making efforts, looking for a job in your area. Sorry you're tired...you're right, something real and valuable takes effort.

[LoginName]

blech, indeed.
I'm having a hard time figuring out what I'm feeling and what I should feel. Maybe you can help me, or we can help each other.

How do you feel about H talking to OW?

My W is making an effort, and I keep reminding myself of that. If she loves me, wants us to work, is willing to work on it, maybe that should be enough. Maybe it doesn't matter if she is talking to OM (about twice a week, she tells me).

Why does it bother me if she talks to OM? Because... she might and probably is still in "love" with him in some form. Is that OK? I love my best friend, I say I love you to a couple of female friends I have (but mean it differently than when I say I love you to my W. Is it because she slept with him, and I haven't slept with these female friends? Is it because it feels like she is trying to have it all and it seems unfair? What's fair anyway? Is it because I'm afraid that if things go wrong for us, or right for them, she'll leave again? Hell, that might be a good thing for me.

Whatever the feeling is, or the motive, or the analysis, I know that I've stepped back away from her in my heart. The intimacy that I thought was growing, and the trust, has been damaged, and it will take time to repair (again). Maybe more than time. Maybe I need to tell her she can't have me and continue to talk to OM.

What would that do? Would she stop talking to OM but resent me? Would she say she had stopped talking to OM but do it anyway? How would I know? You can't monitor someone all the time.

What if I hadn't been married to her, and I was dating her now, and she kept in touch with her ex husband? Is this kind of the same thing?

What am I jealous of? Is it just fear of being hurt again? (Aud, any of this sound familiar to you? Is this how you are thinking?).

I wonder if I'm just not smart enough, creative, imaginative enough, to see this in the right light, or see another way of thinking and feeling about this. Any clues? How did you make it through this, or how are you making it through this?

Sh!t. I really felt we had made a breakthrough. She was telling me that she finally knew what she wanted, and it was me and us. She was being affectionate, as I hoped she'd be. She was opening up to me. This all happened in the last couple of weeks. Then she tells me she's talking to OM,and I step back. What now?

Should the past matter, and how much and in what way? Do you have to go ahead and feel the anger and pain before you can move past it? That year plus of her living in the basement while I lived upstairs, the pain, the uncertainty, the way she's treated me, the disdain, the coldness, the way she's kept me waiting, saying she wasn't sure what she wanted, then saying she didn't want to say she loved me until she meant it (I'm glad she waited I wouldn't want her to fake it, but it was still hard to wait). Basically, it took a lot of strength, patience to wait for her. Somehow it hurts thinking that she was talking to him that whole time, and I didn't know it.

Maybe that's it. Information was withheld from me. I wasn't allowed to make an informed choice. If I had known, I probably would have ended the M. I almost did anyway. Maybe it's a power thing.

But what does he mean to her now? Twice a week she talks to him?! She is so introverted, she doesn't talk to anyone that much. She says she wants me and doesn't love him, but what does that mean? What does she feel for him? Can I share her? As a friend, I know I can. I can easily be her friend and she can talk to OM all she wants. Can I be her spouse though? What does a good, healthy M/R look like?

Since I don't and probably can't know any answers, I have to go back to what I've been doing: do a gut check, get in touch with myself, shake of the pride, ego, fear, and look at what's left, what I really want and need, and do that. It's not easy, but it's seen me through the last 6+ months or so. What else can I do?

How about you Aud?

[Aud31]

How do you feel about H talking to OW?

I don't like it, not one bit. It is one of my clearly stated boundaries, he knows I don't like it. I've asked him to be open about it, he is only if I ask, but I do feel that he's being truthful with me about the frequency and content of their communication. Don't know why I feel that way...I know I can't/shouldn't trust him on it, but I do. What's my other choice? To challenge him and spy on him and stir things up? In the midst of his A, he was working in her state constantly...used any little excuse to get out of town. He isn't doing that anymore. He also avoided me like crazy, wouldn't come home, wouldn't touch me...that's not happening anymore either.

What am I jealous of? Is it just fear of being hurt again?

I have these thoughts too--and I think it's more the latter for me. They're natural consequences, I think.

I wonder if I'm just not smart enough, creative, imaginative enough, to see this in the right light, or see another way of thinking and feeling about this. Any clues? How did you make it through this, or how are you making it through this?

I feel this way often...what is wrong with me? But really, we're not perfect either. For some reason, things seem a lot muddier when they're happening in our lives--it would be much easier to see it all clearly if we were looking in from outside our perspectives I think. So I try to cut myself some slack and be open to inspiration and do the best I can.

I really felt we had made a breakthrough. She was telling me that she finally knew what she wanted, and it was me and us. She was being affectionate, as I hoped she'd be. She was opening up to me. This all happened in the last couple of weeks. Then she tells me she's talking to OM,and I step back. What now?

What now? Give yourself permission to feel what you feel for a few days, decide what you really want, and get on that path. Your choice.

Should the past matter, and how much and in what way? Do you have to go ahead and feel the anger and pain before you can move past it?

I think the past matters in that we need to learn from the sitches and not let them repeat, but the past should not be a stumbling block in our journey forward. If you feel that you've felt enough anger and pain, if you can forgive, then when the anger and pain come back, you can say to yourself, "What happened in the past hurt so much, but it is over now. I've dealt with it and I don't need to feel this anymore." I think that's what it really means to "forgive and forget". The more you do it, the more the frequency and intensity of those feelings diminish.

Since I don't and probably can't know any answers, I have to go back to what I've been doing: do a gut check, get in touch with myself, shake of the pride, ego, fear, and look at what's left, what I really want and need, and do that.

Exactly.

How about you Aud?

Here's my rock-bottom honest answer: I try not to think about it. I'm not even sure what to write about it, so hang on!

How do I feel about it? Kind of numb. On one hand, H has met maybe 50% of what I thought were my deal-breaker requests. On the other, his words and actions demonstrate a commitment/investment in our R, and he's meeting my needs, apparently the ones that really matter deep down in my heart, because I feel mostly content. He's not perfect by a long shot, but he's the man I chose to spend my life with, and he's putting work into our M. Sometimes I worry that I'm foolish, easily lulled into a sense of security, and trusting things I should not trust. My nature is geared to trusting others, even when I know I can't or shouldn't. I don't know if it's a weakness or a strength--maybe both. I trust him. And I most certainly don't. I'm wierd. Gah.

I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to myself, and I used to put alot of energy into fretting over what he was/wasn't doing to be good, like I do...until I realized and fully accepted that I was wasting a lot of energy for nothing. He has to make his own choices. I can't stand over him and push him one way or the other.

I'm not afraid to be without him. In fact, in this instance, I'm glad for the things I learned/am still learning about myself in this whole experience. I like myself a lot more, have a lot more confidence, and a much clearer idea of what I really want in my life. I choose to be with him, I do love him, and I think it's better for our small children at this point. For now, I don't have EVERYTHING I want, but I have a lot of it. I don't want to upset the apple cart because it's 3/4 instead of 7/8 full. You know?

I am seeing in other areas of my life that my lack of consistency/vigilance in maintaining my boundaries is causing conflict for me, mostly as a parent. I'm doing 90% of the parenting in our home on my own, and we have a lot of love and laughter, but my kids don't take me seriously when it's time to get out the door or do homework or go to bed. I'm easily distracted by little things, and time gets away from me, and we have to hurry and rush and inevitably have a blow-up before anything gets accomplished. I feel that this dynamic is there in my M too, and know I have to work on it...but not sure where to start. I booked an appt with my C for this week to get started on sorting it out, my head feels full of cotton balls when I try to dig in.

I guess for me, at this point, I feel that I need to just keep my eye on my ultimate goal: to enjoy a happy, fulfilling marriage to a loving, faithful, worthy man. I'm not there, but I'm getting there, and life is more about the journey than arriving at the destination. If I keep myself open to progress and deal with the scary stuff as it comes without letting it stop me, I'll make it. Right?

[Aud31]

Had another thought just now...about your concern about your W moving to Denver and then resenting you if things don't turn out perfectly...Peaceful-Spirit posted this on my thread, and I think it applies to you as well:

"...the more you do to meet his needs, the more he will work to meet yours and the closer you will become to each other. And when you are feeling more connected, you'll naturally start to trust more."

Something more to think about.

[LoginName]

Why do we go through this? What's the point? What do we want, hope to gain? Why not move on, try someone else? Why keep trying?

Is there any point to all of this? Maybe it's better to let go and move on. Yes? Why not? Maybe she and you, you and he, are just to chicken sh1t to let it go and move on.

Why stay with her/him? why not move on? If you get the GAL thing down and feel good about yourself, why not stay single or move on to someone else?

Just asking

[Concerned_Listener]

LIN,
I suppose everyone has to decide on their own when it's time to move on. My standard has been to consider D, if for one year there has been distance in the R, and there has been no progress towards connection, friendship, or intimacy.

As difficult as my situation has been, the R has never reached this point, and each year shows progress from the prior year.

CL