Partner left after 9 years - He's 'confused' now

[MichelleLT]

Again, you never know what can happen.

Hope you do get to go sailing. And enjoy regardless of whether you do or not!

Sorry I missed your mini-rant. I don't know why my STBXH left either. I'm not sure they do sometimes LOL. That uncertainty is just one of the things in life we don't get control over.

[RefuseToLose]

Ali,

Keep things light and go have fun w/BF21 or "Skywalker." Don't let yourself get hung up on the age thing b/c you aren't looking to get married, but are looking to enjoy life a bit.

I like the feeling of a bouyed spirit in your recent posts, now I'm hoping to read you are continuing to act on it and keep active and living for you.

Your focus seems to be returning to where it needs to be - completely on Ali - so now let's work to keep it there.

RTL

[whateverittakes]

Ali,

The sailing sounds great... and you'll be the only gal.

Let us know how it goes.

[25yearsmlc]

amen to everything Saff just said. SHE HAS been through this and so have many of us. I'm one of 9 kids and have a sister who read loads into every single thing her ex h did, (except of course, leaving her for OW)....that part got less attention than her obsessing about how he signed a check for spousal support, and whether he left a message, which she checked hourly if not more, and how his hair was getting gray (so he must be sad and therefore will come back to her), etc.

I lost count of the YEARS she wasted waiting, wondering, obsessing and oh by the way, the friendships she ruined or stressed b/c she was a drag to be around. And a turn off for Other men too. Have you heard of the book/movie "He's Just Not That Into You"? Look, This isn't easy to say, or hear...but you may need to read it again and again. Your ex likely DID have feelings for you, as he must have for the other women you said he left. But that does not mean he's coming back. Didn't you say he has left other women before? Isn't this a pattern? And as for what the therapist says, did they meet your ex? Did they talk to him? Did you get couples therapy or is this just you going to figure out wth happened? And no t wants to say what we are saying, which is, move along. My younger sister kept seeing different Ts b/c she wanted "the secret" to getting her ex h back. Kept thinking if she only knew the right thing to say or do or dress right or lose all the weight she'd gained, THEN he'd see the error of his ways. But he married OW and that was in '95, and he's still married to OW, and they have kids together and now, a longer M than what he had with my sister, and that's that...sorry.

One other thing. Who cares if it's MLC or him just leaving? Because What's the diff?

I asked that question often when I was racking my brain trying to figure out wth my h of 25 years was doing back then. "How could he do this" WHY? WHY WHY?"
Well, first let me tell you a true story. Long ago I worked at a camp for kids with cancer, and one day a little girl (terminally ill) said to me that she "used to ask God why?" "Why me God? Why? Why?!!? Why? He didn't tell me the answer. And then I said to myself, I just am sick, and it just is. And now I'm trying to have a really fun time this summer...." and she skipped off to play (sort of). She died a year later but her words still echo in me. She was 10 years old. It just is. Okay? You have to GAL no matter what. IF there's a way to get him back, it's be GAL. If he isn't coming back, you have to GAL...see the beauty of GAL is that it's the correct approach no matter what. But the obsessing is a waste of your time. And pursuing may actually hurt your chances of recon, if there is a chance. So while we may not know what to do or say to get someone back, we Do know a lot of things to keep them away and not coming back...

Endless questions that have no real answer, rehashing the unchangeable past, worrying about what might happen next week/spring/year/decade are wasting the "nowness" of your life and it is the only thing you definitely do have; NOW.
No one has a crystal ball into the future and no one here gets a risk free course of action written in the sky for them. My recon m is a blessing but it was never totally clear to me, more like 55% vs 45% and I had a lot of people HERE telling me to hang in there...and that mattered a lot to me.


Now, MLC vs WAS???
That only makes a difference in terms of YOUR response to it internally, as your external actions are likely to be the same, GAL, 180's etc. True, it may give you more hope to think it's MLC but that's a two edged sword as it slows you down from moving on, IF your ex is a WAS. At first, WAS appear to be like MLCs, unless and until you realize the WAS has done this before....which your ex has. MLCers don't repeatedly leave...by definition the MLCer acts out of character in their weird "alien" phase and do things they've never said or done before... But with your ex, if I read this thread correctly, he sure looks like he's got a history of some or all of this. Sorry to say that, but is it True?

We on the DB board are here to support the restoration of marriage. Not every single M can or should be restored, b/c even MWD says some M's have to end. Some could later be re-started in new and better forms, and others are just dangerous for us emotionally, physically, whatever....including those with the familiarity of misery that is sooo "comfortable" that we'd rather do that obsessing and pining, than to let go and start over and get used to at least temporarily being alone.

That was my younger sister's biggest fear; being alone. Still directs most of her choices in life. Fear of being alone. IF there are signs of hope in your sitch, listen to them. Reflect on how your R would be different this time around, for if the behaviors are repeated...well you know Einstein said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, but expecting different results....But gird yourself for some serious work on YOU, and what you can do to be a better you. Not for him but for you, and the relationships in your life that will always matter.

Try to listen to the advice you get here and consider the sources. If there are those who desparately want their own R to succeed, and obsess themselves (not pointing fingers, just saying) they may join you in reading into everything...OR if they are angry at men/women WASs, and have become cynical they may lash out and say "F--- them all!"

I am neither of those stereotypes, (but have felt and done both.) If I recall correctly, neither is Saff. When I obsessed and questioned and read into everything my OLDER sister told me I was beginning to sound like the younger one, the desparate one. Boy was that a splash of cold water in my face. Woke me up big time! I also have kids to think about and model for them, what it is to be deeply wounded but to carry on with dignity. They were watching.

So pray a lot and listen a lot, and if you don't get the answer you like from Him, ask for the strength to handle whatever is coming. You'll get the "right" answer for sure then.

j-

[AliSuddenly]

Hey 25, havent seen you before, but thank you for taking the time to post to me! Dont worry, I dont intend to waste years on him, nor have I ruined any friendships! I've made lots of new friends actually.

I dont pursue?? I have only phoned him once since he started seeing her 5 months ago and that was about our mortgages. I have only initiated a few emails in that time, once to tell him I knew about ow, one after his hliday and a couple brief ones about finances. Contact since he left has mainly come from him.

Yes he left other girls, but that as all when he was 15-24, so normal boys stuff!

Yes, I have heard of, and read that book. And my T outright told me, move on, have nothing more to do with him, he is just being cruel. Wow, your sister sounds in a bad way if it went on for that long!

I've had a year of weekly C and am seeing a pyschotherapist, as well as exercising now and starting new activities, so I'm defo not shied away from the working on me! I bouhgt lots of new flattering clothes in the sales, I'm wearing my hair different, dyed it, I'm sunkissed with fake tan, I ordered new funky glasses.. the Optician just said to me.. "wow, you're looking good! You look really fresh faced and lovely"!

MLC or WAS, who knows? I take your point it shouldnt matter in how YOU behave, but it gives me some comfort to try and make some sense out of something that has been so painful. He did tell his BMF that he is scared of dying/getting old and feels this is his "last chance", but I think its a textbook meet a woman at work case, we were fine.. until he met Helen, then I didnt stand a chance.

I'm an astrologer and I know he is in the midst of a major Pluto square Venus-Pluto transit and could not have ignored its pull. Its about obsession and sexual power, compulsion for someone new, who is likely to not be a healthy choice, but will make you evolve and grow and learn through pain. His friends dont like her and said he seems "ashamed" of her.. but I accept he had to do this and he is likely not ever coming back.

[AliSuddenly]

So the sailing was fun, it was mega windy, force 5 gale! It was me and four... 21-ish year old lads, as predicted. I made lots of ohhh! and ahhhh! noises whenever the boat tipped over to the water line, bit like being at on a fairground ride! It was so windy that the rope snapped holding the sail up! It was fun though.

I remember we walked to the harbour when we moved here and excitedly said we wanted to learn to sail. Instead, we spent every weekend renovating a flat until June, by which time he had met her. So I finally went sailing, he's now dating someone else and it shouldnt have been like this. It made me very sad.

Interesting he is re-renting his Dads house, which we own jointly. He's still never mentioned our house either. He doesnt even know who the tenant is, I sorted it out, I offered to give him the guys details, but he never asked. I dont think it 'means' anything and will just get sorted one day, probs not for a year or two though.

[25yearsmlc]

Dang Ali,

I'm not into astrology so forgive me for not knowing wth you are talking about, but anyhow...

I never say never either. A few years back I'd have said my h and I had a 10% chance of staying married...and here I am. Also I have two relatives who actually divorced, only to remarry their exes later on. It happens. However, in one case it took 8 (yes, EIGHT) years and the other took 5 years to reconcile and they all had kids, if that makes any difference, and it did b/c they had to have SOME contact with each other. By the way, both couples say the 2nd time around was better. Any special reason you chose not to marry the guy? Just curious.

The "last chance" thing your x says about sex with other women, blah blah blah, sounds cliched as hell to me. For the life of me, assuming you were intimate (and I know you were) I cannot understand how "better sex" can make that much difference to a person with a healthy self esteem. Pardon the pun, but how much stroking does the ego need?

But then, we aren't men.

In my case when the question arose of "being cool-physically- versus warm/intimate" with h, when you aren't back together yet, I debated it big time and changed my mind a few times. I spoke to a DB coach (I highly recommend them as they are pro-M, or pro-R I assume, and very specific) and it's a personal decision obviously. But for me, in our sitch, I chose to contrast the warmth of home life, with the outer world my h chose. And ml was always something that was a bonding experience for us and seemed to be quite fine with him. I don't know men who return to women b/c of sex they were NOT having, if you know what I mean. But you have to be comfortable with your own boundaries. In your sitch, he indicated that ow was "dirty" in bed, wth ever that means. It does NOT mean you weren't exciting, although you'll have to search inside and see if you let things get a little boring. IF so, it's just as much on him, BUT since you can only control you, maybe that's something to consider.

Assume for just a minute, that it's an area for you to work on. Great! You can do something about it regardless of whether you end up with him or someone else...

Assume you were just fine and he merely wants the newness... then let go of the issue since you have NO control over that. GAL like you are and in time, the truth will be revealed. For the life of me, (here comes a sexist remark so let me apologize for any offense taken up front....) I can understand a woman wanting/needing better sex b/c her guy has to "show up" for her to be satisfied. If our lovers are not very good, or selfish, or have problems they won't compensate for in some other way...we're stuck with a lousy sex life. (I don't mean ED b/c even with that, the guy can either take meds for it, OR compensate with other things....) But a guy will at least get some satisfaction if the woman just says yes. Obviously, guys want more out of us and deserve more, but the act itself...I think you take my point.

Geez, now I'm uncomfortable. Well, good luck and know that moving on does not mean you are locking doors. You have to shut them for now, so you don't keep looking back...but he knows where you are if he's ever "sure enough" to get his head straight and pursue YOU. In the meantime, you're loving life...
make sense?
j-

[AliSuddenly]

HI there J! Yes we were intimate, very much so, still ML as normal, including the last night he was here, which was 2 weeks after the bomb!! No issues there, he even said it was the "best ever". Wierd hey.

No, he doesnt have a healthy self-esteem! He is full of self-loathing and shame and often said in the last year (as recently as November)....I'm worthless, I'm nothing, whats the point of it all, forget me, I'm dead. He has had a depression (untreated till March last year) since I have known him at 22.

He was VERY shy when we met, I 'trained' him to be ok naked with the lights on! I made him practice by going down to fetch the mail naked in broad daylight, lol! So.. no, I'm no prude and was never insecure about our sex life. BMF was explaining what the "helen thing" is all about, in the context of what a horrible person she is (he stays with her because she is good in bed). Maybe he just wanted "different" after 9 years?

My ex has some deep seated issues only I know about. He went to pieces when he knew I knew (this was in 2005).. Helen wont know. With her he can be a new person. Thats what the 'newness' you mention is all about. And yes, until he can get his head straight, he wont come back. But.. he is keeping a connection going between us, very controlled and at a low level that he feels comfortable with so that he KNOWS I wont phone/turn up and make it awkward for him with Helen. But, he does continue to contact me and I am betting he will email me, or even phone again soon. Its not as often, but he does keep contacting me.

Question is.. what do I do about that now? I am not sure I can keep going on being 'friendly' and available. Should I ignore his next email? Or reply only very briefly? Or wait a week to reply? If he calls, I am determined to try getting off the phone earlier (last few calls were hour and twenty mins long). But.. I dont know if I can really do any of these things, but I am considering it now at least !!!! x

[25yearsmlc]

get a DB coach asap if you can at all. I KNOW it costs money but the peace of mind you'll get knowing you tried everything will be worth it and I found them so helpful and I did see a number of t's with h. They were helpful to an extent but H could not be "reached" at that time. So I went on my own after he left to stay sane and know what to do. I was very interested in what was best for the kids and that was the priority.

Many questions about how to act when h was around, since we have kids, a home, etc. and other reasons...(later for that) For me, most t's thought I should just file and be done.

One T was more of a DBer and I did like him, and so did H. But I needed someone for ME only. But the suggestions I got from the DB coach was so solution focussed and specific, it made the single biggest difference for my m. That and some things listed herein.

"Keep the road home paved and smooth" also applied, so don't be telling everyone about Helen as others won't forgive or forget and will make it harder for your bf to come home. The shame of others knowing can force the WAS to stay away as it's too hard to overcome the stares of all the people they fear are judging them.

RE the right "attitudes" around bf when he contacts you and physical interactions...different thoughts on that. You have to Set boundaries that are ok with you and try to enforce them if you keep choosing to keep them, but be open to "negotiations within". But there is no set rule on this. Good People disagree, arguing that sex with the WAS = having his cake and eating it too, etc. They have a point. But DB coach said it's "not the job of the LBSer to show the WAS the consequences of his actions; life does that." That really struck a chord of truth in me. No matter what you feel like doing, ask yourself what your goal and or motivation is, before you do it. Beware of those who recommend "Showing him" or saying things like "Well, he doesn't deserve 'X'" b/c they are being punitive and that is not going to get you anywhere. But if you find yourself feeling cheapened or used, stop. Search within and make sure it isn't false pride or the desire to inflict pain on him. You'll have to know the diff between that, and setting/enforcing healthy boundaries for yourself. You are in a contest with Helen in a real way, and yet, it's unfair to put you in that position b/c she hasn't held his head up after the flu, or paid bills, or done whatever ones does in a 9 year R and she has only been "fun" in bed. Well, there's more to life than that. But, I have to repeat an earlier question, why didn't you ever marry each other? Was he always afraid of commitment or were you? Did he take that as rejection or a lack of safety?

Intimacy----I don't know many men who come back home to women they never had great sex with, unless the duties of fatherhood call them to do so and even then...not so sure I've ever seen it.. And my DB coach gave me the advice to "Contrast the warmth/loving/laughing nature of life HERE, with US, to the other life of the manly man in Alaska, alone....in the cold and dark."

Don't believe there was OW in our sitch, but even if there were, same "rule" seemed to apply and made sense to me. And worked.

Here are some other things that helped my sitch but mind you, I did back slide every week or so, and went 2 steps forward and one backwards, etc. No one is perfect, we are in pain, and no one set of rules applies.... Some of these things however, seem almost universal in that the DB books hammer them and from what I know, make sense.

A) I initiated NO R talk, and that seems to be a big rule around here. So don't do it and end the damn conversations first. If R talk comes up from bf, LISTEN, and if he revises too much you can say, you "don't recall it that way" but validate his feelings at that moment.

B) Lose the anger, at least in front of the WAS. I tried not to show it to him and at times had to do some "exercises" to work out the anger I felt. H WAS unfair and life was and my life was hard as heck due to his selfishness. That is simply true. But then, what to do?

As I GAL, the conversations were more and more often ended by me as I was "happily upbeat but busy..." and getting on with my life. "Meeting interesting people, going to exciting places and doing fun, fascinating things..." became my mantra, literally. My friends thought it was hilarious and it made the point, albeit with humor. Also,

C) LAUGH easily and often and hard. Important to simply enjoy each other's company, even if it isn't hilarious, it can be "fight free" for awhile, and then build on that slowly. Let the WAS feel safe with you...

GAL continued as did 180s ---- I Started looking at overseas jobs since for the first time, I would not have to think of H and his flippin' career FIRST...but could think of what I wanted and needed. H noticed and seemed scared. I was upbeat though. Also thanked him for things like having paid all the bills for years. I WOULD have complained as I was stressed out to the max one night and idiot h had forgotten to pay electric bill and said I needed to do it all since h wasn't there.....
I wanted to hit him through the phone.

But b/c of DBing, when h said, "Hey! Don't complain b/c I've paid them for years and it's stressful and you never helped and blah blah blah!!" and I could tell he expected me to wail on him, which I sure wanted to do. Instead I said, "yes you did pay them all those years and I want to THANK YOU for doing the bills so long b/c it is a drag for sure." He was stunned and said, after a minute, "You're welcome". A 180 for both of us for sure!

OTher advice I got that also seemed to work AND helped ME...when talking about h's work issues or whatever HE brought up, OTHER THAN R, was to "listen like a lover" so he will confide in you and that will build intimacy of other kind, and to "applaud loudly for the 1% of the good things he does/says" and believe me, sometimes that is "Mother Teresa Hard" to do. Your partner may feel a lot of guilt and shame and I assume he does given the givens. My h felt guilty and for him, that usually leads to lashing out as he does not handle remorse very well. Has a high self esteem in that sense so when he screws up, his ego can't handle it I guess. Don't know. My h went through a terribly selfish phase and may still be struggling with it.

As for your bf's "secret shame" he has to know for certain that you will never throw it in his face whatever it is. That's huge. Sounds as if Helen is good for his ego b/c she is not such a great catch, makes him comparatively "better" or more the good catch in the couple. Make sense? There's not a lot you can do about that, unless you want to become a loser...just kidding.

He has a lot of "Stuff" to work on and frankly, as is, you may be better off right now just doing for yourself. The good news is that you have great memories of the ml and so will he...
Except after you guys ml, you could also have a conversation too....hmmm, how weird.
j-

[AliSuddenly]

Hi J, thanks for your post, again. My sitch is pretty complicated, there was his depression 2003 and my then EA.. followed by us succesfully piecing in 2004 and then the bombshell of me finding out about his concealed issues March 2005 and then his dad going into the coma, May 2005...then bereavement, more depression, hard work renovating his Dads house, then our house, then moving away from friends and family, him starting a new job, me giving up my career and loss of my status..more depression and finally.. ow.

I like your point about not telling others about Helen..my FF berated me for 'protecting him' but I didnt and I see it minimises damage. We spent alot of time together from Feb - Aug last year, until he started seeing the EA, but was purely platonic and now, its too late anwyay!

He asked me to marry him twice, I said no.. my Mum drummed it into me from 7, dont get M, dont do what I did... I am over that now. I was within the R, but he joked "the offer's lapsed" when I changed it to a yes.

A)..He's never critiscised me, or given me any 'reasons' for ending it, other than, IDLYA and this is the right thing for me. Any time I tried to own responsibility for my behaviour in our R, or say sorry, he stops me and says, Dont! You did nothing wrong, you have nothing to apologise for, its me, I'm mental, crazy... etc

B & C) - I had lots of fun times with him after the bomb, Feb-Aug, meals, bike rides, drinks with friends, cinema, days out, cooked dinners, walked on the beach.. He emailed me every day and called most nights. I was always witty in texts and emails and made him laugh on the phone.. he still didnt come back.

Your point about Helen is spot on, and what Jody said. He chose someone he doesnt have to have complete intimacy with, he feels worthless, so he chose someone not worthy either, but the point is, he prefers his status in that R with her, than with me, who he knows is worthy. And, looks like he's sticking with her.