Rebuilding trust - what are reasonable requests?

[EnergyAZ]

Hello everyone

My WAW has decided to come back to the table and give us another shot.

While she was 'gone' she was flirting with several different men as well as an ongoing EA that got physical.

So, needless to say, I have some pretty serious trust issues with her that we are going to need to work through.

According to Michelle's article 'Healing From Infidelity', she writes:

"The unfaithful partner must be willing to end the affair and do
whatever it takes to win back the trust of his or her spouse."


I would like to get a better definition of 'whatever it takes'

There are some things I would like to see, but I dont know if they are reasonable to ask or not.

1.) To end all communication with any man I do not know. To tell them she is in LOVE with her husband and she will not be speaking with them again and tell them to not contact her. Then she needs to erase any contact info she may have. Email, phone, myspace link, whatever. They need to be gone and gone for good.

2.) If the man who I dont know happens to be a co-worker where there is legitimate reason she needs to associate with them...then I would like an opportunity to meet these men so they know who I am. I want to be able to put faces to names.

3.) I do not feel she has any need to have any 'private' communication methods. There should not be anything she wants to hide from me. I understand the value of privacy and eventually I hope to trust her as I did in the past. But since my trust is seriously hurt, I would like her to get rid of any communication method I am denied access to.

4.) Most importantly - I want HARD EVIDENCE that the EA/PA guy is PERMANENTLY OUT OF THE PICTURE! I want to sit right there when she calls the guy. I want her to tell him that she regrets everything she did, that he represented an absolute low for her, that he is NOT WORTH LOSING HER HUSBAND OVER, and that she has ZERO intention of ever speaking to him again. I want her to block his phone number the moment she ends the call. (he lives out of state but has family in this state and visits fairly often)

The other things I would like to see, I doubt anyone could take issue with. But the 4 things I listed make me seem like a control freak which is not a healthy mindset.

But right now, I dont have the level of trust I need to have in her and I consider this a unique, and hopefully temporary situation..not day to day routine.


Is any of this unreasonable? I imagine betrayed spouses of the world will say no, while unfaithful spouses of the world would say that it crosses the line, so I am hoping to see some comments from people who dont have a personal bias to either side of that coin

Thanks

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Those are all very reasonable requests. She should send him a "no-contact" letter, the copy of which is to be approved by you, and YOU should deliver it -- so that she doesn't add anything to do. The content would be pretty much what you describe in the phone call scenario.

The other stuff you ask for is simple "transparency," and it's part of any good recovery plan. ABSOLUTE TRANSPARENCY -- change phone #s, get detailed billing on the new cellphone to come to YOU, exchange daily schedules, etc.

Nothing you describe is reasonable if she wants to come back and work on the marriage. If she balks, be calm and loving, and say "I understand. Let me know when you're willing to do these things," and DO NOT WAVER.

If she's serious, she will do these.

For more info, Harley has several good books on infidelity which include info on no-contact letters and transparency plans.

It's important that you ask her for these things in as calm and as loving as a manner as possible. Assure her that this won't be permanent, and that you really have no desire to even do any of THIS, but you have to in order to protect yourself emotionally.

Puppy

[EnergyAZ]

That's true. I wish I didn't feel like I had to be up her ass about things and long for the good ol days where I had total peace of mind about her. And I am working to get there. But I need to see a full commitment from her, full dedication and loyalty to me, nothing to hide from me, willing to ceremonially/symbolically 'destroy' these men and eradicate them from her (our) life forever.

I think I will feel a lot better about things and enable me to rebuild that vital trust in her much quicker. These people could not possibly be worth the family and life we worked so hard to build. And we can make new friends together if its just about being social.

Thanks for making me feel like I wasnt a paranoid freak.

[EnergyAZ]

Just spoke with W

She wasnt exactly thrilled to hear these requests, but said she understood them. Told me most the men I claim she is flirting with are harmless and she is not interested in them in 'that way' but they are 'just friends'. (I told her 'just friends' is probably the scariest thing she could say to me at the moment)

She built a new social circle once she left (got a new job, so that helped) and everyone identifies her as a person happily moving towards divorce and now she feels that telling everyone otherwise is going to make her look like someone who doesnt know what the heck they are doing with their life.

I told her I understood her point of view about feeling awkward, thanked her profusely for understanding me and willing to do 'whatever it takes', and that if any of these new people are even 1/2 as cool as she thinks they might be - they should understand and not think poorly of her.

She replied saying she shouldn't care what people she hardly knows thinks about her and reiterated that I was much more important to her than any of them.

:-)

Of course, I told her once I feel normal and secure in the relationship again - have an opportunity to meet some of these people - she could resume any platonic friendship she desired. I really dont want to be that guy who tells her who she can and cant associate with. And I know I will get there, and with her help - sooner than later.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

AZ,

Well handled. Sounds like you used a soft touch, which is good. I'm really glad she took it well.

Yes, she will feel foolish. OFTEN. Just VALIDATE, VALIDATE, VALIDATE when she expresses these feelings to you. It's ironic that waywards feel stupid when they're trying to loyally rebuild their marriages, and NOT when they're cheating, but it is what it is.

Be sure to THANK her for her efforts; just don't overdo it.

Puppy

[whatdidido]

I probably have a personal bias, but I am an unfaithful spouse and I don't see anything wrong with any of your requests. She shouldn't either.

[EnergyAZ]

I am trying to do the right thing. I have already forgiven her for everything I felt she did wrong (perceived and factual) and now its all about rebuilding trust in her.

But of course, I am still pretty wounded and my mind isnt 100% right. She has shown plenty of patience, understanding, and sincere regret.

Her recent actions are not the root of our issues. I created a WAW and take ownership of everything I have done to help create this situation. I have taken sincere efforts to improve myself. She see's that and in turn is taking complete ownership of her 'acting out' behavior. She didnt even realize that was what she was doing until she has looked back with a

But we still realize how delicate our situation is and taking things day by day, trying not to get too far ahead of ourselves. But for the 1st time in a LONG time, we both seem to be on the same page and seem to be reconnecting much quicker than I dreamed we would.

This site has helped quite a bit. If I didnt find this place, I seriously doubt any of this would be happening now.

[Bridgestone]

While I think telling her the actions you would like her to take is reasonable... telling her to tell people she LOVES you seems pretty needy to me. She's showing you with her actions she cares enough to at least contemplate doing these things to rebuild the trust with you.

Will the transparency and access to personal communication & the opposite sex meetings be a two-way street?

Is there a time limit on this? Will you share with her, at what point these requests are no longer necessary? Or will this become similar to the WAS limbo-land mentality..

Despite her actions, she is still an adult, seems to be willing to admit her mistakes and atone for them.. I think that she deserves to be treated as such in a caring, compassionate relationship with a respectful adult.

Some of what I read has started to sound like it's bordering on limits one would place on a truant teen, not someone you wish for an intimate partnership with.

While I understand the depths of hurt that violation of intimacy trusts can cause... 'demanding' is harsh.. 'requesting' would possibly be less combative and devisive.

She can choose to meet your requests or submit to your demands.

Which do you want your life partner to believe she did willingly?? meet your requests or submit to your demands?

Just my thoughts.
I think the requests are mostly reasonable.

[EnergyAZ]

You are right Bridgestone. I feel needy and horrifically insecure about our relationship right about now.

I can admit that, and my W can understand it and wants to whatever she can to help. So that's good right?

And while it seems like I am treating her like a 'truant teen', now that she is looking back with a new perspective, she can admit her behavior was rather childish for her age (37). She says she can now see how she was 'acting out' and is very remorseful. And I can understand why she would feel compelled to 'act out' in the 1st place and have told her this to help ease her own feelings of guilt. We are really working together, no longer playing 'blame game' but taking ownership of our crap and forgiving one another and trying to help each other get right ASAP. Life is too short ya know?


"Will the transparency and access to personal communication & the opposite sex meetings be a two-way street?"

Absolutely. But I have never been anything but completely open with her. She has full access to my email, phone records, myspace account. I dont care, I have nothing at all to hide - never have. To the point she never even looks, but she can any time she wants.

Plus, all of my female friends are her friends. One female friend in particular has been someone we both have confided in and she has been wonderfully supportive without taking sides or casting stones of judgment.

"Is there a time limit on this? Will you share with her, at what point these requests are no longer necessary?"

To be honest, I have no idea how long this will take. However, with her patience and cooperative attitude, I do think I will get through this rather efficiently. Believe me, I dont want to carry these feelings forever and am really working at getting through them.

[Bridgestone]

You are right Bridgestone. I feel needy and horrifically insecure about our relationship right about now.

I can admit that, and my W can understand it and wants to whatever she can to help. So that's good right?

I don't think it's good or bad.. it is what it is. How you each perceive it and agree to it is what matters.

And while it seems like I am treating her like a 'truant teen', now that she is looking back with a new perspective, she can admit her behavior was rather childish for her age (37).

That doesn't require the 'retributions' be just as childish.

She says she can now see how she was 'acting out' and is very remorseful. And I can understand why she would feel compelled to 'act out' in the 1st place and have told her this to help ease her own feelings of guilt.

Is it ONLY to ease her feelings of guilt or do you REALLY think this? As my H & I are working to rebuild trust (for other reasons that yours) in our R. his incongruancy in words from one time to the next fuels my fears his changes are temporary. I hope sincerity on your part will help ease hers.

We are really working together, no longer playing 'blame game' but taking ownership of our crap and forgiving one another and trying to help each other get right ASAP.

That sounds wonderful... I'm happy for you. ASAP may take a while. I compare it to losing weight.. the quicker you take it off the quicker it comes back on. The slower the process, the more real the lifestyle changes & habits become to make the change 'real' and more permanent.

Believe me, I dont want to carry these feelings forever and am really working at getting through them.

kudos for you. i wish you the best.

Peace
Bridge