Two WAS's- is it really meant to be or walk away?

[NikB]

Hi there L_L,

Told you I'd stop by eventually! Sorry it took me so long.

I'm so glad you and Trixi found each other as it seems you have quite a bit in common.

Ugh.. 2 separations.. the 2nd one I swear is so much harder than the 1st in some ways. It's "easier" in that you know what to do, but harder in that I think it's almost even more painful - like, "we tried our best and it STILL wasn't enough."

H and I separated once, pieced awhile, talked about separating (and kinda lived "separated in house" for awhile). We've been working on things for the 8 months or so... although the last 2 things seem to be deteriorating again. Not to get too much into my "background" just wanted to let you know I really hear where you're coming from!

I am so proud of you for moving to the place you always wanted to live and really building a life for yourself! So many people do it to "show" the WAS something but it looks like you really did detach and do it for YOU, and I'm really glad. You're loving life again - that is something you NEVER want to lose.

This is from an older post, but wanted to comment on it:

-He gets angry with me when I'm not easily reachable or don't respond to his messages right away. (Good or bad effect here?)

I would say - it doesn't really matter. If he doesn't want to commit to you, you have no obligation to be readily available to him (especially with no kids in the picture, there is NOTHING that you need to be "always available" for). I do think that generally it's probably good though. It means he cares.

Although I see from your newer posts that the contact has pretty much dropped off. My first thought was that he doesn't "want" to care anymore and the getting angry made him see that he did, so he stopped contact completely. Or, he could be really working on detaching completely - it's hard to say.

The first time he had an EA a year after we were married and I just cried and stayed with him, while he ignored me for about 6 months.

OMG.. I can so relate to this. I actually tried to be friends with the <expletive omitted> for about 8 months. Talk about tearing yourself down! It's an awful position to be in - really kills your self respect. I am so glad you're a lot stronger than that, now.

But, I also know I deserve someone who admits he loves me and wants to be with me-permanently. Looking back, it's kind of clear that *I* have been the one who keeps saving our M, not him..

You sure do!! You deserve to be loved and cherished.

(from Trixi) An author says that we women need to quit doing all the work in our relationships and "lean back" and let the guy do the work; that the natural order of things is that the GUY is supposed to DO for us and that WE accept their offerings, not the other way around. (Heh-I like the advice, just have a helluva time following it myself.)

This is awesome advice, Trixi!! It's actually something *I* needed to hear right now, too. So thanks. I do agree with this. It's natural I think for us to rush in and "do stuff" hoping it will help things improve, when it often times does the opposite. I've been guilty of a lot of that lately, too.

Part of me wants to ponder more about have I done everything possible yet to save my M? I have 2 months to D date- perhaps I could give it a last shot. Maybe it makes me feel better to know I have done or tried everything possible.

I do know I deserve better and I wonder if I should just totally give it up right now. Part of me thinks I could try a few more things until the D/March court date, but if nothing changes by then forget it.

I really think the ball is not in your court right now, in terms of "trying a few more things."

I told him I didn't want to be 'friends' if we got a D. Part of me wonders did I discourage him from calling me anymore then or was it good that I was standing up for myself?

Well.. if it's true that you don't want to be friends if you D, then does this matter? You were open and honest about it. And you stood up for yourself and respected yourself. How on earth could those be bad things? What's the alternative? Be a doormat and hope THAT looks attractive? Or let yourself be hurt even more than you already have been "just in case" it "works"?

But, I wish he was the person I used to know, I wanted to be with that man I knew when I was 20, that's what I thought I was getting

I think this happens so much, but we forget that as life goes on and we get older - things change, people change. Sometimes together, sometimes the changes bring them closer to each other - sadly a lot of times, not. You don't want your 40 year old H acting like he's 20...

I think what it really is, is that we want to FEEL the way we felt when we were with them in those days - loved, cherished, #1 in their life.

Could I really influence him enough to change? Any advice?

No... I'm sorry to say, but I don't think so. You have done everything "right" in terms of taking good care of yourself, making yourself whole and happy and strong on your own. If he wants to change, he'll change. I don't think you have any influence over him making that choice at this point, though.

Maybe that is the lesson life is teaching me right now. How to have extraordinary PMA.

Great attitude!! Maybe you're right. How to keep positive when you have so much negative being thrown at you.

Good luck to you on the job! I bet once you've got your own place and a job you'll begin to feel a little bit more comfortable and a little bit less "weird" about your new life.

You shouldn't fault yourself any more, L_L. You have done EVERYTHING you could and I'd argue, even more than that. I think the best thing you can do right now is truly let go and get through the D as best you can.

If the future holds something different for you and STBXH - you'll find that out, eventually.

[Loving_Life]

Thanks Nik for all the thoughtful comments! I really appreciate that you spent the time reading my posts and helping me see that yes, I have done a lot for my sitch.

I was kind of wondering if the ball was truly out of my court and I think I see now that it is. I've GAL'd and LRT'd so much that I'm in a different city with a new life and new friends, not contacting stbx. I'm going along with the D. I'm pretty sure he knows that my door would open a little if he pursued. It's up to him to pursue if anything is to happen at all anymore, right? I wonder if I screwed it up by not building 'friendship' a little more during this S. But, I keep thinking would I get anything out of that? Why should I be killing myself for something mediocre?
I know it has made him curious and a teensy bit jealous when he hears about my 'new life' but if my GAL and acceptance of his feelings is not enough to do anything, then nothing will be able to turn him around. And if he won't turn around, it is not my loss, it's really his loss.

During our first S, he did call me all the time for 5 mo straight. I was still living in the same town, but he was definitely more 'attached' to me then. Now, we haven't talked much at all and we've never been apart from each other like this. I haven't seen him in 6 months. I haven't heard his voice on the phone in 3 months.

I have some exciting new prospects for jobs, and I'm planning how I will decorate my new place when I get it. I'm an artsy/craftsy person so I'm making things for my new place and I finally get to do whatever I want! No debating with stbx about colors or styles or anything. Also, I'm getting invited to so many things that I have to pick and choose now, which is fun! Positive thinking! It's my lifeline and it's amazing how it turns one's life around. I'm also reading books about releasing Rs in love, and that's helping me. On my best days I realize that if I truly care about stbx, I want him to be happy and if that means for him he wants to be left alone and be in his studio and live an independent life with no distractions - then that's what that means. I actually told him that 'it's ok he feels that way, I understand" and that "I forgive and am moving on" a few months ago and he felt "relieved." He wanted to talk longer during that convo, but I "had to go" after a 1/2 hour. That was our last phone convo. Then, he asked if he should call me again and I said "email me" He hasn't called since, is this my doing? A teeny voice in my head wonders if I killed any possibility of piecing by saying that? Maybe I should stop the blame game on myself . Oh well, anyway, I guess that was good overall - at least this is a peaceful transition.

[Trixi]

Oh good, Nik stopped by- she always gives great advice.

A teeny voice in my head wonders if I killed any possibility of piecing by saying that? Maybe I should stop the blame game on myself .

YES! Stop the blame game! A friend recently said (when I was "blaming" myself for things going downhill when my thyroid was messed up) "What did your H do to help you?" I was like "What?" And he said "What did your H say when you weren't yourself? If it was *my* wife, I would do everything I could to help her figure out what was wrong. I wouldn't go hide out in my workshop. Sounds to me like he has always been self-centered." Wow. That really made me think.

How many men do you know that will be THAT easily directed? I mean, how many times do we say we DON'T want something (and they do it anyway) or we DO want something (and they don't do it)? IOW, could one comment REALLY make it so he doesn't call if he wanted to call? I think (very generally speaking) men have no problems justifying doing whatever the heck they want to do. The old "Better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission" comes to mind.

Further- if THAT was all it took to "kill" piecing, then there wasn't enough there to piece. Have you been reading Kalni's thread? Her H has said "come back" but he isn't giving her what she needs. Piecing is NOT easy; it's REALLY hard work. If someone is ready to piece, an "email me" comment will not deter them. Right?

That's good that you have some many invites you have to pick and choose. You are going to really grow and blossom where you are. Keep up the good work. Grieve, vent, kick and scream- it's part of the process. We're here for you! (((L_L)))

[NikB]

Aw thanks Trix!

And I agree - for BOTH of you - stop the blaming yourself!! Seriously... if one single word or sentence could be the "cause" of the "end" of it all - what was there to build on?

Don't get me wrong, I understand how hard this all is. But it is NOT ever about one word, or argument, even.

Piecing is incredibly hard.. harder than I could have imagined. I am at a point where I'm not so sure I can even do it. But as Trixi said, there has to be "enough" there to even piece together.

I am soooo happy about your "pick and choose" invites, that is great!! I was filling out this year's calendar which of course involves looking at last year's, and the #1 thing that stood out to me was the need to plan many more GAL events. Picking and choosing is wonderful.

[Loving_Life]

So, my D is plodding along- 5 weeks to court date. There's no way in my right mind I would want to move back to my old city. I'm glad I'm feeling stronger now.

there has to be "enough" there to even piece together.

I guess what gets me is that I feel like I'm 'giving up' but it's not my fault stbx gave up, closed the door, whatever. At the end of the day, I realize that I was willing to keep giving it a chance- that makes me feel like a decent person. Stbx didn't treat me that great either, so what am I losing? At this point, I'm not even sure I'll be talking with stbx on the phone again. That does make it easier. Perhaps an email here and there to work out final details. My L is preparing the final settlement. One tiny worry is if stbx can't get approved for refinancing the house. I really hope I can stay strong and make it through the court date.

[Loving_Life]

Updates...

Things are going ok for me. I've had 4! interviews in the last couple weeks. I know I'll land a job soon now. (PMA!) I may even have choices.

My L has kind of put my D on her back burner ;/- since I am out of state. She took 1-1/2 weeks to get back to me on updating the final settlement, then she had tons of questions for me and left for a week long vacation a couple days later (this week). So, she told me the settlement may not be ready by the March 7 court date and we may have to reschedule for another date in the future. She wants to make sure I get the best possible agreement. My initial agreement with stbx gives him another 4 months to refinance the house(He is adamant about this). I don't want to rush into selling the house in this market, I'd rather see stbx refinance. My L thinks stbx is taking advantage of me, because I won't get my settlement payment from him for several months in this situation. Stbx may be mad at me when he hears about the delays, but whatever.

[Loving_Life]

Updates...

Things are going ok for me. I've had 4! interviews in the last couple weeks. I know I'll land a job soon now. (PMA!) I may even have choices.

My L has kind of put my D on her back burner ;/- since I am out of state. She took 1-1/2 weeks to get back to me on updating the final settlement, then she had tons of questions for me and left for a week long vacation a couple days later (this week). So, she told me the settlement may not be ready by the March 7 court date and we may have to reschedule for another date in the future. She wants to make sure I get the best possible agreement. My initial agreement with stbx gives him another 4 months to refinance the house(He is adamant about this). I don't want to rush into selling the house in this market, I'd rather see stbx refinance. My L thinks stbx is taking advantage of me, because I won't get my settlement payment from him for several months in this situation. She thinks I should require him to pay interest on the balance owed if I have to wait 4 months. Stbx may be mad at me when he hears about the delays. I'm not sure he will agree to interest, either. Any thoughts for me?

[Loving_Life]

So, I broke down and called stbx last night. (No phone contact in 4 months) Talked for a little while. Somehow the words 'yes I would like to be friends and stay in touch' came out of my mouth. Stbx said he would like that too. (of course he's been saying that all along). A few months ago I told him I didn't think I could be friends if we got a D. Anyway, he told me a little about his life lately. Admitted he missed the cats. I told him I missed the dogs. The convo ended with him yelling at me b/c I asked him why he asked me to get married so many years ago. (total backslide on my part, which just made me feel like junk then afterwards). It makes him angry when I bring up R topics(and I know I should be avoiding this anyway) but I think he feels like he has to justify his reasons for the D. Anyway, he called me again today, but I missed the call. So, I guess he feels like if I need to talk he'll call me or something? Then I sent him an email saying thanks for the call. I wasn't trying to argue/disagree with you last night-I understand where you were coming from I'll stay in touch. Take care. Part of me finds it painful talking to him, I don't know if I can really be "friends". But I guess the other part of me feels like how can I completely block out someone I've known for 15 yrs. I know this isn't easy for anyone. It feels really nuts.

[Loving_Life]

So, I'm starting a new thread in Surviving soon. Thank you to everyone here for posting. I'll add a link to my new thread when I start it.

Still up in the air as to what exactly is taking place on my court date in 10 days. My L just got back from vacation and today is looking at my case again. No final agreement from stbx yet either, don't know if it will be final in 10 days or drag on.

After my recent thoughts about 'friendship' it occurs to me that stbx has not been acting like a 'friend' at all to me. Every time I talk to him or even email, I'm reminded of how argumentative and selfish he is. It's very easy to set him off. I don't think he's interested in my life, he certainly doesn't care about my perspective most of the time. I think he wants to know a little bit about things that happen to me. He doesn't want to get cut off like I died or something. But he's certainly not acting like a 'friend' toward me either. Whatever.

[Loving_Life]

Update- moving on to Surviving D- here's my new thread there- I hope some of you visit!

New Thread : Beyond Surviving