This is the hardest part to deal with. Having them there is hard enough, but having them there when they don't want you ? It's a killer to the male ego.
It's a killer for any ego dude.
But, I agree with the guys. She's in control of this situation right now. Got to let her drive. Any pursuing will just make her run faster. (enough metaphors there?)
Married - 19 years Noticed Problem - Aug 2008 THE Conversation - Oct 2008
The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
....You "endure" until she comes through this fog she is in. Realistically? There are no guaruntees that she will. But the person that you become through all of this WILL play a part in it.
Ral....If youre wife had cancer....would you love her through it?
......If she was in an accident and was comatose...would you love her through it?
Would you be gettin any then? Chances are NO !!!
This mental confusion that is known as MLC....It is no different than an illness. In fact, it is easier to view it that way, because it really is one. You will ever find logic in it. You will never find out ALL the answers.
This has to be a goal for YOU.....
I.E.----Ron has to be less aggressive sexually and love my wife regardless her mental state right now, whether I'm gettin any or not....
This is like walking through a minefield just to clear it.
Sure is.
Quote:
My chances of stepping in doo doo are assured.
Not necessarily. A lot of that depends on you. Your counselor will try to help. We're trying to help. You just have a couple hurdles to get over.
This is the bad time. The bottom of your world is potentially getting ready to fall out. You're in protection/self-defense mode, following your natural instincts to hold on to the things that are valuable to you.
We're just trying to tell you, from our experience, that you cannot hold a person to you. You can only be you.
Doesn't mean there aren't things you can do. The problem is that mostly what you can work on now is yourself. And that's not to say that you're a bad man in need of confession and repentance. But there are two areas that you can and should be assessing and evaluating yourself:
a) things that YOU contributed to the marital problems b) getting your head screwed on straight in the midst of this crisis so as not to do more damage inadvertently
Jack and others have tried to point out to you places of potential danger. When our spouse decides to withhold intimacy from us, they wound us one of our most tender spots. We are men after all. So much of our identity is wrapped up in the testosterone coursing through our veins and our friend in the pants.
To not be desired hurts. Our normal reaction is defensive. Sometimes, as Jack shared, even passive aggressive back at our spouse. That's a danger area because it potentially causes MORE problems between the two of you.
You sacrifice alot if you plan to fight for your marriage. You have to be willing to put aside alot of ego and old male behaviors. Things that maybe work well in business, but not so well in a relationship.
If your wife is wanting physical contact, she will initiate it. As for what can you do? Well I think she's made it clear that anything that smacks of sexual prelude is out. Doesn't mean you cannot still find a way to touch her in a loving way. But you have to constantly gauge her reactions to know what flies and what doesn't.
It's a tightrope. You need to give her space, you need to let her lead the way physically. You need to not talk relationship so as not to put pressure on her. And yet at the same time you don't want to send the message that you'd prefer if she'd just leave.
So how do you do it? A couple thoughts.
Begin to build a new paradigm for your relationship. Welcome to the marriage crisis. For behold, all things are made new.... and freaking upside down, batshit crazy. Listen, watch, observe, measure, gauge.....and remember.
Along the same lines, find a way to establish a new set of expectations, because the old ones simply are going to leave you frustrated. In general it seems that expectations involving a spouse in crisis should be rather low - most of them can meet those at least.
Remind yourself that you are strong, capable, and desirable. You're going to lose just about all the things that used to send those messages to you. You'll need something to replace that. Activities, outings with male friends, good times with the kids. Anything that reminds you that you are a cool guy still, someone that others like to be around.
It's tough. We're not trying to beat you up. We're trying to save you some of the agony that many of us went through on our way to the other side. Jack and his wife are making it. My marriage did not - but nearly two years after my divorce and I am remarried to a woman I love dearly. We all came through this in different ways, all of us successfully in the end. But there were plenty of bruises and wounds along the way.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
Thank You for the insight Bill. Unfortunately, this kind of handholding is what I needed. I don't know if I'm shot, screwed, or snake bit right now. Even just talking to the W on the phone is hard. She will smell the change if I'm too short on saying goodbye. She knows how I am... Earlier, we talked about my son (who has been sick) and where I usually would say ILY, I just said bye. I'm sure she said to herself, something is up. It's all those little things I need to figure out. Literally, there needs to be a guide of some sort to help us newbie's through the dark. What to say, how to act, how to distance yourself. Should it be an abrupt change ? Because, if I am too abrupt, I'll just look like I'm PO'd. Are the changes suttle ? Do I still act friendly and ask about her day, Do I initiate conversation or wait for her. Do I keep it matter of factly. I can keep this going... See, I have no balance.
Handholding is ok, that is why all the veterans have come back, to help us in any way they can, listen to them.Let your frustrations come out here, not with your wife.Pray, pray for strength and patience.READ divorce remedy, and then read it again.
zero expectations.00000000000000
m-54 w-44 children-4 bomb-sept 21 2007 t-21 m-20yrs bomb-sept 23 2007 divorced but not giving up hope, not yethttp://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#post1224023
My W is no fool. She knows who I am, what I am, and how I feel about her and this sitch. All I can possibly hope to do is, as you all say, "drop the rope". I've been overthinking this thing since it started. In a nut shell, no more expectations from her, No more ILY's, no touching initiated by me, Just normal conversation and responses. Outside of that, working on myself and GAL's.
Make it a LOT of prayer...sometimes that is the only thing that can get us through.
Hi Ron, I am Lola. And Jack is right, you have might powerful people trying to help.
If your W notices changes, that is not a bad thing. One of the keys to all of this is consistency. Make the changes real. They have to be for you. Every one of us knows more about this sitch than we would like to. A very good friend tells me he never wanted to know as much about MLC as he does...M1.
From a female standpoint, if we don't want sex, we don't want it. The attempt at sex makes us feel violated. I cannot tell you what a man thinks, because I lack certain physical characteristics (lol). But sex is more emotional for women. Your W's emotions are totally off kilter right now.
One other thing, if she has complaints about you as an H, listen to them. They may be way off, and you may not agree, but right now the complaints are from the mind of the perceiver, i.e. your W. I, personally, have been accused of being very controlling. I listened, and then worked very hard to try not to exhibit any controlling behavior, even though I am one of the least controlling people in the world. But my opinion didn't matter, it was my H's perception and I needed to validate that. One day I slipped and asked a question about what he was doing. He answered. A half an hour later, I apologized to him, and by that time, his perception had changed a bit and he did not think I was being controlling.
The key is knowing that there are things thta can always be changed in any M. Find out what they are. Make yourself into the H your W cannot, will not live without.
(((Ron))) you can do this.
Im still standin better than I ever did looking like a true survivor feeling like a little kid Im still standin after all this time and Im picking up the pieces of my life without you on my mind..
