WAW taking a step home?

[EnergyAZ]

She was flirting with at least 4 men that I am aware of, one of which may have been physical.

'just friends' is how she referred to them as well. That phrase scares the hell out of me cause its pretty difficult to have a plutonic relationship with members of the opposite sex that you find attractive - add the emotional vulnerability factor - thats blood in the water for the sharks to feed.

My wife up until Monday was behaving very similarly to yours, partying whenever she could, flirting with guys...essentially acting like a sorrority girl. She says she now realizes she was acting out and distracting herself. Still doesnt make me feel any better about it.

In my opinion, she is very attractive woman. And I used to take pride in that, now its a source of insecurity. Before all this crap happened, I could care less how many heads she turned because I was totally confident she only had eyes for me. Now that confidence is gone, my trust is gone, and I find myself paranoid about where she is, what she is doing, and with whom. Its very hard for my mind not to wander into dark alleys.


And yeah, for a while after she moved out she would constantly badger me about our son which would annoy me. Maybe it was just an excuse to call me? But she could have gone about it much more productively if that were the case.

Conflict resolution skills are something we badly need to work on as a couple. We have had epic power struggles and the egos to match. We must learn to tame our own egos because winning is not everything. Look at what a desire to win, desire to be right...has cost us. Very humbling lesson to learn that we can be our own worst enemies.

Not to mention, we are both pretty stubborn people. Me moreso than her.

[notgivinup]

Man this sound exactly like my wife. She is good looking as well but has her own person issues with that. I didn't help the sitch. because I was always pissed about how long she looked in the mirror or how many times she changed before we actually got out of the house. She is always about her girlfriends. I usually was just a side kick and she would always invite someone else along to everything the last few months that we were together. I dedicated my life to her and our kids and it is hard to keep my mind off of them. She is now messing with black men which burns me. not because I have a problem with people of other races, but I don't think anyone is going to take a girl serious after she has been married 3 times, and had children with each of them. White or black it doens't matter. They are giving her the attention she wants I guess.

[EnergyAZ]

I think our ladies may place too much emphasis on their looks for sense of self worth. Aging appears to be one of her great fears in life.

And while my lady wont admit it - she enjoys men's attention and has long string of relationships over her life as well. So her ability to attract men is something she seems to put a lot of self esteem into. I think this is very apparent by her exclusively going after younger men - to see if she still 'has it' (which she does - dunno why she needs the validation..)

How is your lady's relationship with her father?

[notgivinup]

he left her when she was 8 and she hasn't seen him since she was like 12. He did call her a few times over the past few years but she doesn't really want to talk to him. I think she doesn't really know what being a father entials. She always acted like a was brutal to the kids. She told me the way I say things to them scared her. She doesn't have a clue what a father's role is in her kids life. There was times I was scared of my dad, but I knew he wasn't going to hurt me and I loved him to death. She keeps telling me I have probs. so I am going to couns. and she is not even though she is having issues. We have power struggles too. They are pretty intense. She tells me that I think I am better than everyone. I tell her that she is trying to act that way by all the expesive clothes she is buying.

[EnergyAZ]

I think our ladies might have 'daddy complexes'. The need for male validation due to lack of strong male role model in life.

My wife keeps in touch with her father, but he has spent a fraction of overall time with her over course of a lifetime. Always lived in different states, see each other once per year, etc. Long stretch where she might not see him for 2-3 years at a time, and only for a week or so.

As result of not really seeing a dad in action, my wife doesnt seem to understand some of my (fatherly) parental actions. I try to explain to her that our son will someday be a man and I will not coddle him else I raise a marshmallow creme puff. I am not overly strict, and I do not use physical discipline, nor do I scream and yell. However, she still thinks I am sometimes a bit 'harsh'

However, as he grows older...whenever he disobeys or tests his mother, she pulls out the 'wait till daddy hears about this' card. And it works for her! Even living separately, she asks him 'do you want me to call daddy?' :-)


Dude - of course you have problems, so do I! Thats why we are here in this boat. Fortunately for us, we seem to be willing to do something about them - which is a lot more than many others can say. So pat yourself on the back and realize the work you do in self improvement will make your life much better - with or without our current ladies.

I do the same thing, allow my weaker self to say something stupid that undermines my efforts. Just because she might say stupid things (and my girl also thinks I think I am better than everyone) doesnt mean we should. When they are lost in the fog, we are the ones who need to have clairity..and since we are flawed and not perfect ourselves, sometimes we struggle too.

[notgivinup]

how long were you really seperated? I have some savings that I am blowing though pretty quickly trying to pay for my 4 bedroom house that she moved out of while she sits in a newly furnished small duplex that she blew up some credit cards to make it appear that she has got her stuff together. I am paying for life insurance on her and wont give it up for the kids sake. She doesnt care about stuff like that. My back went out on me last week so now I am driving myself crazy. I can't get out much because I don't want this to take long to heal. I wish I had more money to get a life but I am not going to go into debt even further. I go to the library.......witch I haven't read a book since college and found that interesting. the relationship books are all very good. go out on the town on the weekends that I don't have my son, but I live in a college town and everything is geared at the students, so us older indivuals don't have crap to do if we arn't willing to try to act young. I go out late and come home right after the bars or clubs close. My wife stays out all night most weekends and it bugs me to death. I have even parked my car around the block so that she doens't know that I am at home.......LOL. Did you still have dates or what not? I can't beleive some people do! I tried a few times when she moved out in Oct. but she always had an excuse so I gave up on that notion. I know I need to go dark but it is hard to do with kids.

[EnergyAZ]

She moved out in October, but we had been living as uncomfortable roomates since last spring.

I too have a 4bd house that is $100k upside down I am trying to dig myself out of. I have no savings what so ever. We already did our property separation, liquidated assets (including IRA) and eliminated credit debt. There really wasnt much left after that. I dropped her from health insurance, but we still have the auto policy which she does pay her share on.

I work W-Sat (12 hr shifts) and have my son the days I dont work, so I also dont have much opportunity to go out & blow steam. But, my wife will go out partying on a Sunday till 3am.

Dates? Surely you jest! It was very hostile between us from Sept-Dec and we only managed to become civil this past New Years Eve.

It was this past Monday that her turn around happened and she was very much interested in dating me again with the hopes it leads to full reconciliation. And now its Thursday and she is in full on persuit mode, asking me to spend the night at her apt tomorrow, sending sexy txt messages, wants to celebrate our 5 year anniversary that we missed (11/04), talks about counseling, etc. But she did similar last June and by August she had backslid into her wanting divorce again, so I cant allow myself to get too excited and just taking things day by day.

I still have my guard up, I cant believe what I am seeing, I have some serious trust issues with her and have a hard time believing the words she says. Still, its music to my ears so I remain cautiously optimistic and ready and willing to do my part to the best of my ability.

I agree, its all but impossible to go dark when you have kids. You have no choice but to see/speak with W on a pretty regular basis. At the rate we were going, I was horrified I needed to encounter this woman 2x per week for the next 15ish years.

Her turn around was so extremely sudden I cant explain it at all. I can only speculate. I was hoping a WAW could comment on this thread cause I could really use their insight.

I want to trust my girl, I want to believe in the things she says. But my heart says 'Dude, you been here before. Be careful'

[notgivinup]

Yeah I understand........I am so pissed at my sister right now because she is one of my wife's party girls. They post pictures on myspace of each other say crap like sisterly love or my sister. I can't take that crap. I am about ready to blow up at my sister. I am almost as made at her as I am my wife. She can spend her day with my son and her nights with my sister wtf? I am scared by all the money she is blowing. I know she probably has gotten at least 5 credit cards since she moved out. She has bad credit so they probably don't have huge max amts. on them but it can add up fast. So you said you where you where ready to move on. I feel that way sometimes and sometimes think about being with other women. We are human right! Sometimes I have sent her text and act like a have a woman to piss her off even thought I am not really looking. She couldn't take it if she saw me with another woman. I am almost ready to pay an escort to take me out to her party spot.......lol.

[EnergyAZ]

Your sister could be a heck of an ally if you play your cards right. Dont be the angry guy, all that does is justify W desire to leave you and sister to agree with her.

Be careful in playing the jealousy game. I hinted to my W that I was interested in another woman and thats when she started going bonkers flirting. As if she now had a free pass.

Focus on yourself, be the best man you can be, improve your physique, take care of your looks, get a new hair cut, some new clothes. Look GOOD every time you see your W. Be upbeat, happy, fun...someone anyone would want to be around.

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that you are getting over her and ready for the meat market. She will realize that, and if she likes what she sees from you, she wont want you to hit the market.

Just beware trying to make her jealous.

[DanceQueen]

Hi there Energy....I had to come check out your sitch after you posting on my thread....it was nice of you to stop by and try to help me out so I thought I would return the favor, in case I have anything helpful to say!

I know you don't know my story, but I was a WAW after 15 years of marriage. We are divorced now, and it was very very painful. (My other thread is about my current relationship, I am engaged again and happy...but anyway....)

I have only read this thread of yours, so I am only going off from this one update that your wife had an epiphany and you are now confused as to how to relate to it...

Energy, please let me just say one thing: the biggest lesson in DB is also a very common lesson in the dating world. When you pursue too hard, the person you are pursuing runs in the opposite direction. But when you are strong, confident, and you know yourself very well, you know you will not "die" without someone else, it makes you very very attractive.

So...when you told your W that you were going to seek custody, she knew you were ok with yourself now and not pursuing her. You suddenly became very attractive to her.

PLEASE do not let this ball stop rolling!!!

Whatever you do (and it does sound like you are doing well so far) do NOT give her the impression that reconciling is the thing that will make you happy. What will make you happy is to be stable, a good parent, and self-assured that your life will be whatever you make it be. THIS is attractive. But acting like a life without her is going to be horrible is NOT attractive. (I know you are doing good....I am just totally reiterating this for you, you need to keep focused on it!!)

Your confusion about how you feel is totally normal, because she has jerked you around a LOT in the past year. You are being honest with her and telling her you doubt things can just get all better quickly now....and you are also being very fair and honest by allowing you and her to both understand that you fear she might retreat back into "I don't love you" on a whim. This is honesty, and its great!

However...the one thing I think you need to really look at is this: SHE does not have control over your future, YOU do. When you truly take that into your heart and mind and put it into practice, you will no longer be confused. This is much much MORE than just deciding if you want her back or not. This is about being a strong, self-assured man and individual, who is SURE of their own feelings, intentions and motivations.

If you can truly take this under your skin and apply it to your life, you will REMAIN attractive to her and the likelihood that she will change her mind on a whim again will be much decreased.

My sitch was not like yours in many ways, and not like most other posters here. The reason for that is that, one of the reasons I left my husband was because he never pursued me, he was very inactive about me. He wanted me to just stick around him with no effort on his part. I begged him to pursue me, to date me, to try to "win" me even though we were married. This was a very high need I had and I went without it for our entire marrige. When I left him, I told him the only way this would work was if he pursued me and dated me and showed me he really WANTED me that way.....this seems to be the opposite of all the other posters here. Most WAS's seem to loathe being pursued and DB advises not to do it. I prayed to be pursued and begged him to pursue me. He did not, so we ended up divorced. Therefore, my story feels so different from others here. I am actually jealous when I read about the LBS's who are pursuing and begging their spouse to return, as I had longed to hear that from my ex-H and never did....

So that is just a little back ground for you....

But having said that, I want to say something that I very much DO understand and that I fear maybe you need to hear....

My ex-h was a "nice guy". As much as women love nice guys, we are rarely sexually attracted to them. This does not mean we are attracted to jerks, it means we are attracted to CONFIDENCE and self-assured men. We are attracted to a man who has a spine and will not let anyone walk all over them in any way. We are attracted to a man who knows who he is, he does not need us to define him. We are attracted to a man who goes after what he wants with confidence, not neediness and man who does not subjugate his own needs for ours. Even though we will push him and see how much we can get away with (men do this too), we actually want him to show us where his boundaries are, and they better not be too far in or we will lose respect for him (again, men test women in the same way).

I hope you absorb this as I fear that maybe you are going to give her the vibe that you are at her mercy to decide what will happen to YOUR future. I know you are taking steps to make sure she doesn't get that message....however, if the truth is that you ARE at her mercy because you love her so much, she will pick up on this and lose attraction for you again.

Another suggestion, as you move forward into dating her and trying to see where this might lead....at some point I suggest that you firmly and lovingly tell her that although you are excited at the prospect that this might work out after all, you need her to commit to it and stop chasing other men. Don't soften the blow, either. She knows what she is up to and in truth she is discusted with herself. Don't beat her up for it, but just factually say that you can't date her if she's chasing other men....unless you want to open the floor for YOU to date others as well but I doubt you would want that.

I have a lot of hope for you in your sitch, if you can truly settle into your manhood and put YOURSELF at the power position....she will have no choice but to be immensely attracted to this....

Good luck,
And thanks again for stopping by my thread...

DQ