Divorced, but 'still hopeful' to reconcile.

[Flicka]

What would you have been doing otherwise?

I do not think it is NICE to hear from me. You get weird when I suggest you are chasing too hard and not protecting your daughter and small son.

I won't write more but I will be reading. I will be watching to see if you challenge your wife's family and go for custody of your kids. You should. If you don't you are not protecting them. W's family may have the money but you have the power and good sense. You have been a good father. Can you really not imagine having prime custody? Too inconvenient? Too difficult?

Keep standing, if you want to, but help run interference for your children.

I am their "Angel" now.

[still hopeful]

Understood. Thank you.

Letting Go Tom

[still hopeful]

Disengaging from my 'old' XW is the most difficult portion of working towards my ultimate objective of achieving the possibility of reconciling with my 'new and improved' XW should four critical things occur: (1) she wants to regain what she gave up, specifically her family and her husband, (2) she recognizes problems in her behavior and values and she vows to either work on resolving her issues or vows to find out how best to work on her issues and demands the same of me,(3) she actually does the work and the changing to make the reconciliation efforts successful and demands the same of me, and (4) she fully commits to making the marriage work by giving and demanding honesty, integrity and regular communication.

I know that I cannot reconcile with XW as she was. By the same token, I did not deserve to reconcile the way I was either. I see my issues. I am working on them and as I see new ones, I work on those too. I love my XW and I want the best for me and her, either together or separate, but hopefully together as new and improved individuals in a new and improved with the resulting synergy working in our favor to make our original dreams for our M our reality.

Regardless, for me, disengaging is STEP ONE and I am three years behind in taking it. My friend flicka is my Jiminy Cricket here, reminding me that all of my noise making and belly-aching is a useless waste of energy because it is not focused on healing me and protecting my children better from situations that they didn't ask to have brought upon them. Unfortunately, spewing is how I think, how I sort, how I figure my 'things' out and ultimately understand. I know it looks like time wasting to some, but in the end, I do make my way to the correct decision and correct path, albeit sometimes way later than I would often like.

For my fighting spouses, ex- spouses, and STBX spouses I salute you. The successful and veteran DBers here keep giving the same advice...to disengage. I see the goal. I am making my way to the goal, but my path often looks like I don't know what I am doing because I don't. I 'auto-correct' on the fly and my path to MY goal looks like a zig-zagging mess, and it feels that way too, but I do have a goal and I will move forward, either with my 'new and improved' XW or alone. Either way, though, I am moving forward, gaining new experiences on which actions (and NON-actions) work and which ones don't, storing the productive ones and discarding the counterproductive ones immediately.

Bear with me here, and I will bear with you. I'll keep posting my story, my successes and failures in disengaging, my successes in getting a meaningful single (for the time being) life. I hope that my successes and failures will provide both inspiration for you and warnings to you that will make a positive difference in your journey.

Letting Go Tom
JUST DO IT!

[still hopeful]

Just making changes to my signature

[still hopeful]

The only successes I have to post today in my continuing journey is that (1) I grow more clear that disengaging and distancing from my 'old' XW and letting go is my only sane path to take and (2) that my continued challenging interactions with my 'old' XW are NOT making my love and determination to reconcile with my 'new and improved' XW fade any time soon. I will let go, but I will not give up. Thank you again phoenixdeux.

I understand that in order to actually meet my 'new and improved' XW, I have to emotionally divorce my 'old' XW. Plus, my 'old' XW must:
1. see her own need to improve herself and change her values for herself and for her to achieve her better, happier, more fulfilling life;
2. either already possess the tools/skills necessary to effect her self-improvement changes or she must be so determined to change that she seeks the tools/skills ceaselessly, knowing that the answers are already in existence;
3. actually put her existing and/or new tools/skills and into a plan of action to successfully change her behavior and her values so that she will actually be happy, healthy, and whole, which is already her goal;
4. put her action plan to improve herself into tireless action, because knowledge by itself is useless, but knowledge becomes power through experience, which only is obtained through action. And experience only comes through action. It is from our from experiences that we all learn how to succeed.

I continue to work on improving myself every day. I challenge myself to deepen my own tireless determination to maximize the tools/skills I already possess and to tenaciously search for the knowledge/tools that I don't already possess to improve myself, knowing that my path to self-improvement has, most likely, already been discovered by another and that I will find my new path because of my faith and tireless effort.

I know from personal experience that knowing what to do and how to do it is insufficient to make demonstrable, significant and lasting change my life. WHAT I learn from reading and conversing is useless until I put that new knowledge/tool/skill into ACTION, pushing through my baseless, debilitating fears and actually honing my new skills through my action/practice so much that my new skill becomes automatic, almost instinctive, as my choice that I rely upon as my FIRST option because I am so familiar with my new skill that I call upon it automatically when I am when stressed to act (or not).

I am clear today that I must take steps to disengage from my 'old' XW NOW. I also know that:
1. I cannot fix my sitch; I cannot fix my 'old' XW. I am my focus, not her!
2. I cannot change my 'old' XW. I can only change me;
3. A successful reconciliation is only possible with my 'new and improved' XW, and she may never change;
4. In my newly re-prioritized life, I am, for the first time, a more important priority in my life than my 'old' XW;
5. Even the possibility of reconciliation, no matter how remote it may be, is non-existent without my letting go of my 'old' XW and emotionally divorcing her;
6. No longer seeing my 'old' XW as my wife and actually living MY life is the key to MY emotional survival; no longer pining away for her;
7. I will remain open to the possibility of reconciling with my 'new and improved' XW, without actually expecting it;
8. I have been on my journey to recapture my manhood for almost 3 years now. I am finished being paralyzed by my baseless fears of the unknown. I will continue UNdoing all of the emotionally castrating damage that I inflicted upon myself. I am again a man of action, not a wuss of whining and waiting;
9. I will be kind to myself and patient with myself as I learn new behaviors and change previously counterproductive behavior patterns into positive and productive behavior patterns. I man... a good man and I am now behaving like one.

I need to thank my friends, brothers, and sisters here on the DB board for their kindness, advice/direction, admonishments, encouragement, fellowship and honesty. Specifically, I thank frank_D, phoenixdeux, flicka, AmyC, whitney, CZ and everyone else for posting on my thread and sharing their experiences on their own thread. EVERYTHING here has helped to keep me sane and pointed in the direction of my possible reconciliation while reminding me that I and my children are ultimately the most important people in my sitch, not my 'old' XW.

Talk again soon.

[still hopeful]

Made good on my opportunity to keep my mouth shut. XW told me she didn't want to hear what I had to say about an issue because she already knew. I chose to politely tell her what I needed to say and she told me that she knew that that was what I was going to say. I know she did absolutely did not know that I was going to say because I know her and I absolutely DO know what she thought I was going to say.

The good news is that what I did actually say needed to be said and it was neither accusing nor blaming. Either way, I told her thank you for listening even though she already knew (NOT!) because her willingness to listen allowed us to clear up a misconception (NOT! But that's OK.) She did hear what I needed to tell her and what she needed to hear , regardless, and it was all accomplished without anger and upset. Victory for me. Victory for us.

She gets to see that I am in control of myself, in command of my perceptions, and assertive in leading her in our communication without being controlling. Plus, she saw that her perception of the 'old' me does not apply to me today. Another opportunity for her to experience the new me; for me to debunk another of her misconceptions about me...and all done under the radar. NO detection. Nice.

Letting Go Tom

[ff468]

Tom
I love reading what you say here.
I am at the point that I need to disengage as well. Easie said than done. I'm looking to you for the foresight, keep up the great work. Good luck.
B

[still hopeful]

Yes, disengaging is easier said than done, and detaching is even more difficult because, as AmyC wrote, detaching isn't something you do, it's an emotional place you arrive at with the help of your disengaging.

As I said in my previous post, I am starting to be successful in disengaging and NOT allowing my XW see my emotional turmoil caused from my interaction with her, but even doing that doesn't eliminate the frustration caused by my disappointment from my unmet expectations that results in my anger towards her (that I do not express to her) and myself that I absolutely do express towards myself. I am trusting that DOING what I need to do to disengage will help me to grow emotionally stronger and eventually detach.

I have also heard here that NO reconciliation is even possible until I let go of her. As phoenixdeux said, letting go is not giving up, its just releasing the expectation that reconciliation WILL occur and living my life accordingly, going forward with plans as a single father so that I do not waste more of my precious stuck in pause and/or trying to fix a M or XW that I simply am completely unable to fix. I do realize that I have the ability to fix one person here on earth, and that is me, with the help of my Lord and Savior. I also have the ability to greatly influence my two children's lives and help them both to become happy, healthy and whole...and that starts by being an example in being happy, health and whole, from which being well-rounded and well-adjusted is a natural outgrowth.

Thanks for the encouragement that what I write here about my sitch and my views is a good read for you. Hopefully my travails are a good read for other as well. We are all in this together, so walk with me because together, we share a cosmic strength to keep on keepin' on for ourselves and our loved ones. I'll keep posting because reading posts and posting myself is therapeutic for me. Take care. I wish you well. Remember to focus on YOU rather than your X.

[still hopeful]

After my trip to Tahoe with XW and our children and the resulting aftermath, I was pissed for a bit and that anger has given way to understanding. I am reading How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. In it, he wrote that many times when people are doing 'wrong' they cannot see their 'wrong' if they are criticized. This criticism will cause them to be defensive and believe that they are a victim, rather than someone who has been, and sometimes still is, doing 'wrong.'

Looking at myself, I have too often criticized people in my life, and XW has not been spared from my criticism. She has done plenty wrong (no quote marks needed) in our sitch, and I have criticized her far too often, which is completely counterproductive for achieving my goals. I have such a surge of energy to finish this book, apply it to my life and sitch, re-read it, and apply it, and over and over again to become more effective in dealing with all people in my life. Reading, studying, applying, and reviewing...improving myself as my gift to myself.

[still hopeful]

Today's opportunity to detach and 'man up.'

XW called and asked if she could have our children after church 'like always' (her self-serving interpretation).

Me- I told her, "No." Disengaging and not being a wuss.
XW- "Why, do you have something planned?"
Me- "Yes, I plan on spending my time with our children." XW- "Well, I don't understand. This is what we've always done."
Me- "No, this is what we've done for the past 3 Sundays when I've had them with me. For the past 3 years, we've always had our regular schedule. We're sticking with that."
XW- "Well, maybe you'll change your mind before tomorrow. Can I speak with D8?"

XW gets on the phone with my daughter and tells D8(according to D8), "Daddy says you can't go with my right after church, but if you really want to, you can."

I go outside and call XW back. She was with her friend, the "Marriage Cancer",as I 'lovingly' refer to her, and I asked XW what she told D8. I discussed with XW what D8 told me that XW said. XW said D8 was mistaken. Of course, this is the same D8 that XW always tells me doesn't lie, but apparently she can't repeat what XW said to her 2 minutes prior. XW then says, "Our schedule isn't spelled out in the court documents; we've just always agreed on it." I didn't debate this point with XW, I simply said that I am not OK with XW making changes to my time with our children and then informing me afterward. I asked her, how would you like it if I did the same to you? XW says she understands and I said goodbye.

This was a HUGE step for me in my R with XW because I have had the spine of jellyfish when XW asked me to do anything her way. I wasn't a jerk. I was simply assertive and I don't care how she and Marriage Cancer rehash it, and they will, or how XW will repeat the interaction to others, and she will. I just don't care. I was firm and assertive, that's all, and I can live with that. I just remind myself that I am not trying to be XW's friend. We will be friends a H&W, but if that will not be again, then XW will have to settle for friendly, end of story.