WAW - Possible MLC I need help, WAWs advice IV

[LonelyD]

My D17 has gone from a happy little girl to a very devastated person. she has been moody lately but I let it go. she was very bubbly on Saturday when I picked her up and now this. She made me feel like the enemy. She was not receptive to talking to me, talking to a couselor or therapist. She talks to her mother and she says thats enough. The way she snapped at me about Mom still legally lives at that address was hard to take.

I started my "walk" today, feeling pretty good and now this. I am back to square one again. I do not know what to do now. Apparently all this time with her mother is good for her and very bad for me. I cannot believe she has turned my D17 on me like this, putting me so far outside her life. I thought we were close, I gave her space, I do everything. Boy does all this sound familiar. Maybe it is me!!!!

Whatever her mother was saying about me now has my D17 havign the same attitude towards me. I don't know what I will say to my daughter tonite when I get home, although I am sure she will be at her mothers. And when she calls for a ride , home, I am thinking of telling her to get her own damn ride home. I know that is not right, but now, everyting I thought I had with her is gone...This is becoming to familiar to me...I am thinking of getting my house appraised, talking to a realtor, selling it for waht we can get, split and I am out of here. I really feel bad, real bad...This is devasting on top of an already bad situation. I mean really, is it me, am I looking at this wrong? I am absolutely confused, hurt, mad, and upset...Well apparently she likes her mothers lifestyle, let her ask her mother for money on weekends and when she needs things. Let her mother cart her around. Let her mother cancel plans to amke sure she has money to go out and do things. I am tired of all of this. I am telling W on Friday, no ins money, no insurance. Get her own. Meeting with a lawyer Saturday to discuss seperation versus divorce. I am not moving that way, yet. I don't know what to do. I want to sort my brain out and had to come back to work and it is a zoo in here.

I don't know what I'll say to D17. Obviously can't talk to her siblings about it. W doesn't talk to me at all, becasue I am not in "her" life. Now I have to walk on eggshells in my house.

Everytime I start my walk I get knocked on my ass!!! I mean really, how much more of this can I possibly take? I know my D17 loves me, I do know that, but now with her life decisions being skewed and sitting there and hearing her blame me for putting her in the middle, and my mothers not the bitch everyone paints her to be, and she made a mistake, so what, get over it....Nothing is right at all in my life...

[LonelyD]

My other D emailed and asked if I was upset with D17. She had text her sister and said she tninks I am mad at her. I said I am not mad, and I told her I couldn't talk about it. I didn't want to betray her confidence.

She emailed me back and said I was upset about the Alpha school program and I told her that is part of it and the rest is what she had to say. she said all she told her was about family therapy and she says she won't go. I told her that D17 said some things regarding me that I won't repeat. I asked her not to say anything.

D21 is very close to D17 and she is moving back home with us. Which will be good. D21 emailed that D17 is very upset thinking I am mad at her. And thinking I am disappointed in her.

My friend the lawyer emailed me and asked me to think really hard about a seperation and divorce. He said I know you don't want either of these and once we start, we can't go back, so think it over and call me Monday.

I'm so upset I'm shaking. I don't know whats up, His voice is telling me to not stop walking, you will deal with your daughter as you have and continue your walk. this is all part of it. I believe Him, and I am a little less hurt knowing He at least talked to me.

I have to handle this in stride, thisis who I am now. I cannot retreat from the arrows. I guess if I did I would be in the same boat. I have to show my D17 the clear road home as well.

[FaithfulH]

LonelyD,

I'm sorry you're hurting....but, I'm confused.

I thought you said you only talked bad about your W here. Why would your children have heard any of this? Why are you talking to your D21 about your D17?

I told her that D17 said some things regarding me that I won't repeat. I asked her not to say anything.

Yeah, right...don't say anything. Don't you realize that your D21 is likely wondering what you say about her to D17? Now you somehow feel like you have given it your best shot so you're considering Separation or Divorce? That will fix everything....NOT!

What happened to the loving father who was doing everything for his kids? Because your D17 makes some comments you are ready to throw in the towel? Do you have the ONLY mature D17 on the face of the earth? I have a D21 so I know.....they say stuff they don't mean. I know your sad....hurt...grieving....but, you HAVE to stop the pity party if there is any chance you can become the man God intended for you to be. There is NO way that you can show a defeatist, pessimistic, angry, sad, persona on this board and NOT have it bleed over into your "real" life. Stop it, LonelyD! You ARE better than this....man up!

[25yearsmlc]

Amen to Faithful's comments. So what if your d17 was mad at you? So what? You are the parent, the MAN...take it in stride. Of course she's angry at you. She's pissed at her mom too. You both let her down. But instead of punishing her for saying how she felt (and proving that you are a vindictive jerk who only "walks with God" when people are nice to him) and selling the house...blah blah blah, show up for HER and be her dad. Ignore her comments. You can tell her, you're sorry for the things you said when you were upset with her mother and that you didn't mean for her to hear them and you won't do that again. Ask for HER HELP in keeping you on track so that you do not become an embittered old, alone, man. CHeck in on YOUR progress like say, "How am I doing" on the Temper front?" or something that feels okay to you. Maybe say, "okay, when I asked you to clean your room, did I sound less "drill sergeant" ish? And almost take it lightly like a little inside deal you have with her.

Keep her in school b/c that is what's best for HER. So what if she thinks she hates you? This is about HER welfare, not your popularity today. The truth will be revealed. As long as you treat the mother of your children with the respect that title deserves (in front of those children) then you'll be fine in the end. This job of parenting does not give bonuses or pay raises or promotions or applause like the job at work. (That's fast food for the starving ego). With fatherhood You make small, consistent, daily "deposits" and eventually you will reap the compounding rewards...this is also NOT a contest about who is right or wrong between you and your wife. If you love your wife, you want her to be happy too. Of course you'd PREFER it'd be with you and you believe it would be, but arguing that point is counter productive and makes you look petty and vindictive. As you sounded a few minutes ago.

The fact that your d17 wonders if you are "mad" at her is b/c she knows she hurt you. You can tell d21 the conversation was painful and leave it at that. Refer questions to d17, not you. But demonstrate forgiveness at all times. They are in more pain than you realize. They feel powerless. Don't make it hard for them to stumble and fall. Keep the road home paved and smooth for THEM too....

hope this helps. In a way, it's a great opportunity for you to demonstrate the new you.
(( j ))

[LonelyD]

Everything my D17 brought up was from Sept-Oct. I have apologized several times for doing and saying what I did. I do not need to do it anymore. I am not punishing anyone, except myself. I have said nothing derogatory, I have done nothing derogatory or have flown off the handle and freaked out on any level.

Let me tell you the reality, the obvious. W has been with D17 and asking what I have been saying. I have said nothing, NOTHING! But to be in graces she has brought up the past, my fault for opening my big mouth back then. D17 has been out with W and OM and his sone like the cute little family. I am sure the wife wanted tyo have friggin Xmas cards done. whatever,

D21 and her are close and they do talk and they know I don't talk bwehind their backs so that is not a problem I have. D21 will ask her if she hasn't already , what did you say in the meeting? She will get it out of her and blast her for anything she said about the one person WHO IS KEEPING IT ALL TOGETHER! I am not looking like an ass in front of my kids, was my W in tyhe Damn meeting today, No she doesn't hacve a car, she couldn't get a friend to drive her, whatever. How important is this situation, It is one of the most difficult things I have to deal with. this is my D17 life....AndW couldn't be there because she coudln't pay her damn bils on time, she couldn't open the dman mail I gave her or read tghe friggin note that told her to make sure and call the bank, no, all this will just pass her by if she ignores it, just like this!!!!!

I would love to lay that crap out for D17, but I don't it hurts the situation more so I keep my mouth shut. Pity party, you r damn right. You know all I hear is He doesn't give you more burden than you can carry, He won't do things to hurt you. I gotta tell you, 4.5 years of my life have been utter torment, can't wait for the next 4.5 to see if it evens out, it won't.

No I am man;ng up to all of this, I went back to work and did my damn job. I went and picked up food for us, btu she had eaten./ I did the dishes, I am doing the laundry and then I am going to bwed. Shje hasn't said boo to me all night. I have been nice, my actions have been clear that I am not happy, but cooler heads will prevail. Pain, I'm starting to think this is all I will feel in my life and I really don't care anymore. GAL, my ass. This is my life right now, binding my family together, getting everyone on track, that is my life, this is what I am suppose to be doing. And I still get slappped for it.

You know I really don't want to sit in a big meeting with my W, with her f"d up attitude and clueless behavior. Because that is how D17 is acting. Oh, I can send her to school, but she won't go, so now I have to seek alternatives, notice I said "I". Not we, "I". do you think I am calling her to get help? No f"ng way is that happeing. You knowI have been thinking a lot tonight and her attitude got like this since she started going over her mom's more regularly. HJmmmm, quite the coincedence.

Ask her questions about things, little things between us, yeah did that , do that....And what do I get...lies and slapped, she has learned from the friggin master. No I don't want a seperatiopn or divorce, I want this over with , noow!!!!

Oh, she knows I 'm her Dad, I am the adult, you have no idea. But the attitude and the treatment today, oh yeah, that was the W sitting there. I saw her face in the whole thing. It broke my f"ng heart.

Things are different now that these things are out in the open, things will never be what they were, you cannot recall the spoken word. I have been good to everyone around me, I have given to them way ahead of myself, and for what, 40% of them now treat me like a friggin wet bathroom towel, not to sure what to do with it.

Do I think ending it with W will solve my problems, no it won't because these problems will only end when I end, obvious. I will always have to sit and see the pain, see the hurt, feel the pain, feel the hurt and know she did this...I hope she is happy and finds the true love that she wants so that her miserable life will go on....I hope to find something that will rip my attention and pull my head out of my ass.

I worry about my kids every waking day, I pray for them every night, I struggle to help them with what I do not have. SHE GIVES THEM NOTHING!@!!!!!!!!

I will not be compared to that selfish bitch. I will not be used in the same sentence as her. The time is coming and the limits are in view. this will not continuwe much longer. She will reap what she sows, MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON HER SOUL. Becasue when the end comes and I am gone, there will be no return, none!!!

Now I have ot deal with another mess. I have to clean up and try and repair another life. Apparently mine must be good if I have all this free time to do it for everyone else.

He told me to keep walking, you will deal with this in stride, keep walking...You know the only reason I came on this board tonight was hoping someone would reply to my posts, thank you. But what you are saying I didn't do and won't do.

I know how much pain they are in, I have posted that. I have heard their SHARP tongues talking about her and her"morals". Oh yeah, and I squelch it, tell them no. But I have posted that before.

I apologized for many things to my kids, many things. I am sorry for the turn of events. But I didn't "pimp" her out. she chose her path from her own mind. She is playing her justification on my kids now because her friends won't listen to the BS anymore. So now its, I'm doing this because me and yoruf ather agreed it was best or some other load of horseshit.

Pardon the language. Man up, yeah I have doen that I have swallowed so much blood holding my tongue, I have held my head high I have worked out issues and rose to the top and will do it again. Man up?! Any higher up and I'll have wings and be playing a harp.

YEah its a pity party, has been for a while, probably why she left...Who the f knows....So its been good. 2005 lose dad, 2006 lose job, 2007 take huge pay cut from already low paying job, 2008 lose wife, 2009 D17 wants out of school becasue she can't cope...Can't wait for 2010...

Pity party, well named, I should change my name to PP....Maybe I should stop putting my feelings out like I have been told to do, maybe I outta lock them away like I did when I was younger....Then I can decide later on in my life which was worse, putting my emotions out so I don't let them build up, or rage at the machine..No, my emotions being out, not inside is something I think I will try for a while. It will keep me from sounding whiny and pissy and childlike...It'll also make me forget about her. because rage has a way of doing that. Anyway gotta go finish laundry. D17....Well another nail in my coffin. All this will definitely bring me closer to God, right next door....

[FaithfulH]

I will not be compared to that selfish bitch.

LonelyD,

Is this the unconditional love that God put in your heart? I'll bet she comes running home soon...not! What WAW would want to come home to this? You are OUTTA control! You play a victim very well.....but, that isn't gonna do you anybody any good. Now you can get angry with me too! Who are you not angry at? I'm gonna take a break and pray that God speaks to your heart. I cannot believe that your emotions ride so directly on what anybody says to or about you!

[25yearsmlc]

I'm sorry but did you think you were the ONLY LBSer here? Are you the only one who had to hold their d's at night, crying b/c "if daddy loved us he wouldn't have left" and how many messes we ALL had to clean up b/c of the WAS who NEVER saw any of it? Hello?? That's the deal. We feel the pain and we deal with the pain the WAS causes....what's new in your sitch? Every LBSer with kids has been there. It's worse with smaller and younger kids, trust us, I have both.

You are not alone in this. But to hear you tell it, your D has done something to you b/c she won't condemn your w and instead is trying to have an R with her mom AND dad....and don't think for a minute that d17 didn't notice who was there and who wasn't..... She KNOWS!! Yes, your w left you. That sucks. SHe also left your daughters. Your d17 is angry, but now is remorseful (which is why the other daughter is asking you about it) and your d17 is confused.

YOUR SOLUTION? "F--- them all!" That'll show them!! Great. Very strong and attractive. If you were the only person to go through this, I guess I'd feel really sorry for you, but not attracted. Instead, you are among many others who've been through the same or more, and for longer, with small children who say they "hate them for making the WAS leave..." and mean it, for awhile. I can't count the times my d11 (then d8) said it was my fault H left, or that if he'd "loved us, he'd have stayed here..." Never once did she say anything like that to h. WHy? Read the books on kids and divorce. Having a parent leave the home rocks the world. It means that it's NOT safe out there. Some people only love you a certain amount and it's conditional. YOUR love for your daughter, in her time of need, is conditional on how she treats you at this terrible time in her life. You'll hold today's comments against her? For how long? A day? No, you act as if she had a tatoo artist carve it on your chest. FORGET about what your d17 said in her pain. She lashed out. Haven't you done the same? Let it go. Back on the saddle and move on....this is not about your daughter and you, it's about your daughter's pain. BE above this as your d21 will see, and guide your d17 to the truth. Forget about your wife and stop competing with her.

Be loving and firm and kind and of all things, be forgiving...you are so consumed with your anger and pain, you forgot there is another person aching and in pain and who feels rage as well...your 2 daughters. BE there for them even when it's tough. That's when parenting counts the most.

WHen my kid told me she hated me I told her "Too bad b/c I love you anyhow, and you still have to do your chores..." and that no matter what, I'd always put her happiness first in my life. (I said that part later). She never said it again.
As hard as the kids were then, they each have problems with h now, not me. He has to deal with those issues and R's himself now. NOT my problem.
Enough of a 2 x 4? You are not alone and your pain, though deep, has been experienced before. So have the betrayals. You can survive this; we did.

(( j ))

[25yearsmlc]

faithfulH,

just a quick hijack/ hello from long ago...I'll check your thread later as I'm so tired. But somehow I sense good things continued for you... and oh yeah, keep up the work on LD, he needs you now a whole lot...
((( j-)))

[FaithfulH]

((((25yearsmlc)))), I miss you....thanks for the note....and, yes, things are amazing...not perfect...just amazing!

Now back to our main event....

LonelyD,

First, you need to be thankful that AmyC cannot reply right now. 25yrs and I have 2X4's....and we've been where you are....but, AmyC would have blown you outta the water by now. Why? Because she (we) care enough to slap you back to reality before you REALLY mess up your whole family's life. Notice I didn't say anything about your W? Guess what....you NEVER controlled her...you don't control her now....and you NEVER WILL control her (or your kids). So, we share what YOU can do about YOU!

I guess maybe some of my angst at your sitch is because you remind me of somebody I know very well....ME! Check this for accuracy....

• You believe that you know what's best for your W and kids and are willing to do whatever it takes to protect them from harm's way.
  
  You view this as Loving...they see it as Controlling
  
  
• You know that your heart is in the right place, you're just misunderstood by many (most) people
  
  You view this as Sacrificial.....they see it as Arrogance or Martrydom
  
  
• You wonder when the day will come that the mayor will knock on your door and announce "Come one come all....I pronounce today LONELYD-DAY!! Join us for a parade in your honor!" OK...that last one may be a bit over the top....but, at some level, you think that one day everybody will see what a great guy you are!
  
  You view that as Justice...they say "Get over yourself"
  
  
• You constantly talk about your W, think about your W, wonder when your W will hit bottom
  
  You view it as Caring...they say GAL
  
  
• You come here and lay it on the line and tell us what you believe is the most accurate reflection of your sitch
  
  You view this as Honest and Humble....we say "Your just like us...hurt, angry, sad...and you brought your crap here just like us....so don't get mad when we try to pull you out of the ditch"!

I suggest you:

1) Get on your knees and stay there until God reveals what you need to change/do....then go DO IT!
2) Re-read DB....then go DO IT (maybe for the first time)!
3) Get to your therapist and be honest with them....NOW!

It ain't too late to save your family....remember "INTEGRITY is what you do when NOBODY is looking (or seems to care)"...

What're you gonna do, LonelyD?

[LonelyD]

I want to thank you both for your caring. You have no idea how much I appreciate it since I have no one I can talk to openly about this. My mind is made up now to how I need to handle everything in my life and that is how I will do it. He is telling me to keep walking, deal with everything in stride, do not stop do not relent. I am doing that, but I also know I have let out too much emotion which I am not used to doing. so , I will lock them down for now. My survival will be to get some rage in me. Survivalist say the only way to fight for your life is to get mad and fight. I've pretty much had it with the waiting and everything else I have been doing. My life is to deal with what I am handed, to the best of my ability. She is not anything I "control" and I never thought I did. How people view me is of no concern to me. what my kids think of me is huge. And trust me, they think a lot of me, they hear it in my voice, see it in my eyes and my actions. I am not laying down on this pity pillow as far as they are concerned. You're talking about 4 kids who want me to date and find the next Mrs. LD. Yep, that's what they want. What do I want, let's see, $68000 to do everything to finish my house quickly and pay my bills to where they need to be, See my grandbabies graduate from college, share my happiness and joys and fears with someone who loves me. I don't just mean my kids and friends and families, well, you get the drift.

I am praying hard to hear something, I need to walk, that is clear. He doesn't really care what I do to get my ass up as long as it is up. So I will go back to the one "attitude" that helped mye "survive as a kid, the one thing that confused so many people, the one thing that made me" National Honor Society", "hard -ass SOB who got into fights regularly", "Most Talented" and "Nuts". Yes I was allof those things. And it helped me when I was alone, it defined who I was, and I overcame everything that stood in my way. Its a survivalist mentallity. Rage against the machine. It is my last chance at this. DB'ng isn't going to help "us". she has no contact with me. She has no money so calling her tomorrow for the insurance money is a complete waste of time. I won't call her. If I have to sell a kidney topay bills because of this, then I sell my kidney. I am tired of asking, I am now going to do what I have always done. 180, yeah, its the one attitude that I thought I would never breath back into life again, but now I have no choice, the only way to get through this is to stop being the "victim". And the only way to do it is through my "rage". It will not let me fail, at all. I know it sounds bad, but it isn't.

FH, I love hearing about your situation and pray to God I can get where you and so many are. You knowsomeday, I pray soon, I will have that happiness again in my life, but for now I will let the pain fuel the rage and force me to overcome. I have a lot of thinking to do and projects I need to get done, finally, this weekend. I will have D17 in school at some level, hopefully by tuesday, they have no school on Monday.

25Year, I pray for your sitch and feel your frustration and pain as well. Your words are encouraging as you have seen me post several of your phrases that I do hold to me. Rage will save me. Believe it or not. It is already helping me. Do I care what people think about me? Not really. Do I do what I do to please other people, not anymore. Rage will prevent me from emoitonally saying or doing anything. It keeps everything to a get it done mentallity and screw everyone else. I will not walk on eggshells, I will not bend, I will not relent. This is what I need to get through this. Will she be back, I pretty much doubt it. But I still need to get over it and I will. She is in a place where she wants to be. whether she is miserable or happy is of no concern to me anymore. It is her life, she doesn't care about me, I shal;l return the emotion.

Unconditional Love, yeah I have that. Unconditional Rage, do I have that? Yes. I am not a martyr, or self righteous a??hole, I am who I am. I am a person everyone likes now even more than before. But now I need to be what I need to be, that is heartless, emotionless, and do things that need to get done without letting my feelings or emotions have any part of it. D17 will finish her Junior year of hifgh school kicking and screaming, she will finish! Make no mistake of that. I have a plan and it will work, because I say so. Controlling, you bet your life it is. Better job, better finances, better living beter life, yep, all that and soon, because I will rage towards those ends with great and reckless abandon. D21 will move in and I will get her finances straightened out, immediately. controlling, Yes again. Because someone has too. These are my children, yes I let them fall, but they are not getting back up, I have waited for them to pick themselves up, but they haven't. So now i will give them a hand up and a boot in the ass. And then I will kiss their foreheads and tell them, do not wait on others to bail you out, when you fail and fall, get up, learn what made you fail, and never do it again.

Yes, the rage is already working in me. God has told me to dust this emoition and attitude off . I will not be mean, or cruel, or judgemental, I will be what I need to be to get through this and get this walk under way. Pity party, thats what I hate most right now. See it, read it, understand it. couldn't shake it because I let all me emoitons out and all my feelings. Not anymore, I will harness them, bottle them and use them as fuel. If all I will feel is pain for a while, then that is good, I will hold it to me and let it fuel my rage. Don't worry, rage I control, it doesn't control me. But it will keep me focused, hhard, but focused. The only thng with rage is there is no room for compassion. I know this, I will need to be careful in that area. This is the biggest 180 I can do.