Divorced, but 'still hopeful' to reconcile.

[still hopeful]

Good morning, cz946.

First, phoenixdeux was kind enough to post this to me recently:

Letting go doesn't mean it's over...it just means you quit pining away and start to look at her as your EX wife. I've been where you are. I'm remarried to her, so I know there is hope...but it was just being open to possibility of reconciliation, without actually expecting it, that was more helpful.

I agree that letting go, disengaging, and working one yourself is best, but I have so far only really been able to work on myself.

XW and I split nearly 3 years ago and she started looking for my 'replacement' immediately, as well as drinking too much and running around constantly to avoid thinking, processing, feeling, and healing herself. All of that is what I suspected, but she did confirm this to me recently. Perhaps if I had 'let go' sooner, I would have reached the point I have reached today, but hindsight is 20/20, as they say. Regardless, paraphrasing my friend, frank_D:

No one here knows you, your XW, and the COMPLETE story the way that you do. No sitch is exactly the same, although they are quite similar. Since YOU are the one who will benefit from your good decisions and suffer from your not-so-good decisions, swirl what others offer here, what you read and learn and make the best decision for YOUR sitch.

I agree with what frank_D said wholeheartedly. No perfect, fail-proof formula exists for any situation to resolve suffering M ill, but DB is a great place to start, the DB board is a fantastic plan building tool and healing device, and MW-D is a remarkable woman with a vision the we all share for making M what we ALL intended when we decided to marry.

My XW has past addiction issues, but not currently, if you ask her. About 1 year ago she began taking a Norco prescription for back pain. She also began abusing Norco by purchasing additional supplies of Norco from an acquaintance. Additionally, her older brother is a 25-year alcoholic AND a drug addict. Regardless of the dysfunction in her birth family, older brother (OB) began living with XW for her (in her mind) to 'help' OB to stop drinking. XW must have told OB that she was taking Norco, and since he was already addicted to Vicodin (same family of opiate pain killer), he began whining to XW that he needed some of hers. XW and her mother suffer from the same God complex, thinking that THEY can cure OB from his alcohilism and drug addiction problems when he has never shown any real desire to quit; to rid himself of his habits. XM-i-L found out that XW was giving OB Norco and flipped a lid. All of this caused serious, but not unexpected, outfall amongst the whole family.

Back to me though. I have watched XW make her way through a string of BFs since we split and behave destructively throughout our sitch. Of course, this is my perception of witnessing her behavior and her telling me what she is doing, but she will tell me that I am judgmental and mean for saying anything. We have two small children, I worry about D8 and S3 mostly, but I've worried about her only slightly less. XW has taken to re-kindling(?) old relationships with her male 'good friends' that I never heard of while we were together. When I asked her why I had never heard of these 'good friends' she simply said that she was married and that she didn't think it was appropriate to continue on in her relationship with them. Ri-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-ight! XW did what she wanted when she wanted to do it and I stupidly never questioned her actions. It's possible that she wasn't doing anything wrong, but I don't KNOW that and even if I did know, that wouldn't excuse what I contributed to the overall demise of your marriage over time.

All I do know is that NONE of these 'good friend' were ever called when XW needed assistance in any way, except when she wanted to hang out or party. I also know that she is currently between 'flavors-of-the-month', so she has turned her attention towards me and has begun the process of introspectively dealing with her emotions and our past. It is not unusual for her to turn her attention towards me when she is between DHs and/or really needs assistance with something. I believe that most will tell me (and you) that disengaging here is the most opportune time to remind XW that she wanted a D and this is what a D looks like; little communication outside the children, and very little help. Anyway, I haven't been to good at doing things the right way.

Back to Saturday night...she stayed over and went to bed early with S3. On Sunday, I got my children up and the three of us left, leaving XW sleeping in my bed. (I sleep on the couch when she stays over.) After church, I called XW and we met at her house. XW went to bed again (acute Norco withdrawal symptoms still) and D8 and I made egg salad sandwiches for everyone. XW finally got up and told me that D8 wanted to do something fun and she asked me if I had any ideas. I gave her two ideas, but those weren't accepted so XW asked me if I wanted to go for a drive? I said sure, where? She suggests Lake Tahoe, but I'm (XW) driving. I didn't feel like taking a stand on this so I said fine. We took my car and XW wanted to pick the music that I played. I told her matter-of-factly (NOT mean) that I didn't care a lot about what she wanted and I cared even less when she was driving MY car at her insistence. She relented and I played music that she, I, and D8 enjoyed.

The drive up there was very nice. Beautiful, like always,in Lake Tahoe in the winter. Once we got there, we stopped to use the restroom. XW began drinking wine. I figured it was only a matter of time before she began talking about her feelings with me. I listened but told her that THAT discussion is best had out of earshot of D8. She agreed. We all walked around a bit and had dinner. XW drank more wine and became more bold about airing her feelings about me and 'us.' I simply told her, "You've been drinking and you wonl;t remember ANY of this tomorrow." She said she would. She still in bed. It's 11am now. Taking prescription Adivan (sp?) to deal with the acute w/d symptoms from Norco. The lenghth of the AWS has been lingering leads me to believe that she abused the Norco more than she has admitted to me. Dunno. But she is working with her doctor to sort this all out under medical supervision.

Rewinding a bit, last night I went and got her some food. She and I were intimate, but then she stopped me and told me that she wanted to do THIS again when we both wanted it. My thoughts were, "Here we go again!" I do know this, I won't put myself in that position again real soon. I have always been the one, according to her, that she could say that she didn't want to be intimate and KNOW that it would be OK. Lucky me. I don't live inside her head, but I don't know if she's simply taking care of her own feelings and needs with me because she feels safe, or if she's just playing 'power struggle' games again.

I went to sleep and took D8 to school this morning. All is quiet for now. I'll see what today brings.

Re-visiting my and XW's discussion with her longtime GF recently, it sounds, accoring to XW and GF that XW is getting closer to moving forward with her efforts to reconcile with me. Again, I'll see. I have always known that neither I nor my XW are without flaws. I know what her flaws are and I believe I will deal with them better the next time, assuming we get that oppoortunity. But as frank_D told me:

XW isn't the ONLY one who decides whether or not you reconile. THAT decision is YOURS. You have more power in this situation than you realize. Keep working on you. Everything will work out as it should.

So here I find myself still trying to reconcile my troubled M because I love her more now than ever. I also know that I am the best man for her. My concerns come when I think about how much work I have done on me so that I don't make similar mistakes again, but I don't really see much effort on her part to improve herself. Perhaps she is finally tiring of running to avoid and will begin her self-improvement journey so that we can make ourselves, our M, and our children happy, healthy, and whole together for the first time, just like we imagined when we first started.

Again, I'll see, but I am NOT going to run towards reconiling our R right now. I will be cautious, caring, supportive and loving. I will be more assertive. I will be the Christian man, husband and father that we both need for me to be. AS frank_D once told me, as long as I keep working on myfelf and she doesn't work on herself, I may find that I have outgrown her. And as phoenixdeux told me, I have done everything I can do to reconcile my M. We still need to have the 'talk' about what reconciling means to each of us; what our expectations of each other are; what our visions of a successful, loving marriage are.

We will. Then, I will have clarity. I will know that my will is God's will and not the other way around. I will be at peace. I will live MY life for me and my children, and if it is God's will, with my XW. God know and the future is in His hands.

Tom

p.s. My future posts will be much shorter, I promise.

[volleydog]

Is your XW in any type of program for her addiction? Not trying to be nosy but once an addict always an addict and I am speaking from experience as I am a recovering addict(19months) to the same drug for the same reason. Until I went into rehab and even 3/4 of the way through I didn't think I was addicted, it helped with not only the addiction but helped me realize mentally why I was doing certain things.

[cz946]

Good afternoon, Still Hopeful


I am glad you a had a wonderful weekend. Your situation sounds promising.
I also agree with quote from phoenixdeux and like you struggle with the disengaging part.

My split is more recent than yours, but my XW has taken a somewhat similar path. She is constantly drinking and partying as much as possible, to the extent as getting babysitters on her nights with d5. She just recently started hanging out with OM’s. From what she has told me, she is not ready for a R with anybody and is sick of her friends and family constantly trying to fix her up. Who knows maybe she is just telling me this because she knows that’s what I want to hear. She has told me that she will never get married again.


I can tell you she comes from a very troubled childhood, and was abused as a child. To the extent I am not sure. She has never shared this with me. Which is a mistake I have made, I never pushed because I didn’t want to bring up bad memories. Therefore she never has healed from these and held them in. Six months before the bomb she started going to counseling and old memories from her childhood started coming out and she was a changes person. I didn’t know how to deal with the situation. I simply tried to fix things or ignore things instead of just listening.

Also she married very young(20), and most of her friends are still single. So in part I think she is trying to go back and live the partying life style that she feels she missed. She also has several friends who are in horrible M and I think she is trying to show them they can make it on their own.

With that said, I think the best thing for me to do is stand up and be the strong person she fell in love with long ago. I am normally never a depressed person. Through this whole process, I have been weak, depressed, sad, etc…. As my post said, I am not going to look back. I am going to move forward. In my heart, I know that I am her soul mate, and I am the best partner for her. I hope someday she will feel the same way, but for now I am working on living my life to the fullest. To me that’s spending as much time with my daughter, finishing all the projects I have wanted to complete and never had time, exercising, hanging out with close friends…..


One Goal!!!


CZ946
me: 34
XW: 29
D: 5
T: 13
M:9
Dday: Sep 18, 08
joint legal and physical custody of child

[still hopeful]

cz,

I don't know if my weekend sounds so promising after all. I discussing this with my friend, frank_D, he suggested that allowing XW to stay with me and the children (again) and going to Lake Tahoe for the day with XW and my children is potentially a big mistake from the standpoint of, once again, she doesn't have to feel divorced because she gets all of her needs met doing things they way I have done them thus far, and I get NONE of my needs from her met. To quote phoenixdeux again:

Letting go doesn't mean it's over...it just means you quit pining away and start to look at her as your EX wife. I've been where you are. I'm remarried to her, so I know there is hope...but it was just being open to possibility of reconciliation, without actually expecting it, that was more helpful.

This is what I feel I MUST do or I will never reach the end of my sitch and find my sanity.

I understand that I needed to tell her that when I agreed to go to Lake Tahoe with them (probably wrong) that I needed to insist that I drive my car(adult and assertive) or just opt out of going. I didn't do that but today is a new day to start taking my steps to disengage and ultimately let go of the outcome.

In further speaking with frank_D, I told him that I have always felt that I never made a conscious decision to D my XW; she divorced me. I said I know that is taking a victim's way out. Frank said he understood my feelings but gave me another nugget of his wisdom:

You need to make a conscious decision to divorce yourself emotionally from the 'old' XW and let go, so that she will have the opportunity/need to grow and change. Otherwise, there is no real hope for reconciliation. Then, if it's meant to be with the two 'new' you's, you can work on reconciling as new people and as a new couple.

Frank, again, hit it on the nose. Right now is when I need to do as phoenixdeux and frank_D suggest. Disengage, as best I can, and move forward in a firm, but assertive way that I need to get on with my divorced life. I believe that if God assists her, and if she allows His assistance with her free will, she will see the need to change, have the will to change, make the effort to change and ultimately change. Otherwise, NO reconciliation efforts will work. We would again be doomed because BOTH of us would not have the necessary, finely-tuned spiritual, commitment, relationship, communication, and marital tools to succeed.

I hate how I see a little daylight in my sitch and I rush in to ruin it by being needlessly excited, needy, and hasty, messing 'things' up again. Today, I will pray. I will pray for the patience, strength, and wisdom to act in accordance with His will. I very much desire to reconcile with my XW, but I cannot reconcile with her as she is. She needs to make changes in herself, but not for me, for HER.

At this point, I simply want to squeeze her in my arms and ask her, "WHAT DO YOU WANT?! ARE WE REALLY DONE? IS THERE REALLY NO HOPE FOR RECONCILING? IF THERE IS HOPE, WHAT ARE YOU WILLING TO DO TO MAKE IT WORK THIS TIME; NO HALF MEASURES, NO QUITTING!" I doubt I will do this, but it probably needs to happen. I also understand that if I did ask those questions, I would get an answer which was congruent with how she felt in THAT moment. Five minutes later her truth could be different.

I know I am not alone here with my fears, my frustrations, my hurts, my confusion, my love; my need for hope, healing, love, acceptance, forgiveness, assertiveness, growth and maturity. THAT's why I keep coming back; for the encouragement. I also know that I am my own biggest obstacle in my journey of achieving my reconciliation goal, and I am the ONLY one who can accomplish this GOAL by hanging in and doing all that I am able to do. THEN, I need to let go and let God.

Tom

[still hopeful]

volleydog,

Thanks for chiming in. XW was addicted to 'crank' when she was in her middle teens. She went to a re-hab center and when she came out she tried to hook up with NA, but she couldn't connect with any of the people there, so she went to A-A. She attended A-A for 12 years, and about 5 years ago she came to me to tell me that she didn't think she was an alcoholic.

I told her I didn't think she was an alcoholic either, but I did believe that she was an addict and the booze would escalate until that wouldn't do the trick anymore and then she'd be right back where she was. Her mother believes she is an addict and wants her to go and get treatment. XW stands by her assertion that she can quit any 'recreational' drug any time she wants to quit. If I'm not mistaken, isn't that a stereotypical mantra for addicts, that they can quit any time they WANT?

Regardless, whether she is or is not, she makes horrible 'good friend' choices when she is using or boozing, and subsequently poor life choices. Again, my biggest concerns are (1) my children, (2) myself, (3) her, (4) the possibility of reconciling.

XW told me ages ago that the most manipulative people in the world are addicts. Perhaps she is an addict and I am too 'in love' or too stupid to see the obvious. With regard to myself, I do believe that SHE is my drug of choice and that I would be best served dealing with my co-dependency issue my church's Celebrate Recovery program. I've gotta save me from my own craziness so I can care for my children and myself.

Lastly, in her mind, she has done so much self-work and counseling that she doesn't really see the need for more. Denial is such a powerful thing. Perhaps it's me who's in denial about who she is and where she is. I don't know. But I do know that I have to initiate the changes in my life. Wish me well.

Tom

[still hopeful]

Ugh, I had a long (even for me) post about my more recent 'stuff', but I pressed the wrong button and it all disappeared. Bummer. Night all.

Letting go Tom
Just Do It!

[Flicka]

Tom, that was divine intervention for us your weary readers!!! You have amazing insights about your wife and your life but you do go on...

You know I care about you. If I could, I would host an 'intervention' for you. Your beautiful W is YOUR drug. You are addicted to her and the distractions of 'rescuing' her, it seems.

Stop getting your selfish 'fix' {Lake Tahoe, etc.} and consider that you have to sort things out before your little daughter starts mirroring your W. I know how protective you are of your children's mother. Please realize that in order to keep your kids on the right track and safe you need to interfere with her addiction differently. Your MIL could help. I understand she is part of the problem but it seems she understand the trouble from the inside and trusts you. She could organize the rehab and help you distance for as long as it takes for W to get sorted. Meanwhile, reclaim your kids and pull them away from this destructive yuk.

Love,
F.Flicka

[Flicka]

I am no longer "Friend Flicka". I am "Frozen Flicka"...

[still hopeful]

Winter has you Frozen?

[still hopeful]

Divine intervention indeed. Just wish He had interceded BEFORE I spent all of that time on typing my woes. Bummer. Thanks, Flicka. Nice to hear from you. Hope you are well.

Tom Letting Go