So Carlos, Is there anything you could do differently relative to your wife?
Here is where I'm coming from:
We don't want to ever look weak, sad, or desperate while we are in the LRT. However, I've begun to realize that divorcebusting is very much an experimental approach at its core. That's what all the 180's are about. Try changing a bunch of things. Some will provoke a positive response in wife and many will not. We observe and adapt based on the results.
That was reinforced when I had my last DB coaching session. I was to try some things, observe and report back to coach in two weeks. We will then analyze the results and adapt for another two week period.
So what could you do differently? I know you have limited interaction with wife, so it's hard. But here is the thing... 180's don't have to be directly related to romance or relationship. Sometimes just doing things that confuse the wife is a benefit. The wife has a stereotype of you in her mind. You need to shake the stereotype.
So, for example, I gave up Diet Coke. Nothing at all to do with my relationship with wife. But I do know for a fact that it surprised the hell out of her!
What could you do like that?
My thread, Carpe Diem #4 Orig Thread: Carpe Diem #1
I will add to that. At our last lunch, I ordered a coffee and did not ask for cream. H was stunned. Seems silly and small but it gets them to realize they do not know everything about us and to notice things have changed.
That is a great suggestion, Techguy - thanks for bringing it up. I have tried to change some things over the last nine months - I've started getting together with friends, which is unusual for me - and I've started wearing more button-down shirts - which I like to do - but don't wear often since I usually just work from home. I've also started wearing contact lenses more - just to remove the barrier I sometimes imagine between myself and others when I'm wearing my glasses. I don't think my W really cares enough to notice any actual changes in me at all...and any ones that she has noticed have just become more of an opportunity to be negative about me...i.e. when I started playing outside with the kids more she accused me of trying to manipulate her - and when I played more with our baby boy she accused me of not caring about him but just playing with him in order to make her have sex with me....(I still cannot make sense of that accusation)...
So...I've made a lot of changes in my life over the last several months - though most have just been 180s that have helped me be happier with who I am as a person and as a father...one big one for me is that I just don't drink much wine at all - almost never - and I really enjoy a nice glass of red wine...but I never buy it now...ever...so that's another 180.
I don't know...today I've been mulling my situation over more in terms that you've been sharing, techguy - and find myself getting lured into that idea of the grass being greener out there somewhere...I look back on our relationship - and just reflect on the last couple months since she's moved out - and I see so much anger everywhere...but since she moved in November - all, and I mean ALL the anger has been hers and hers alone. I just don't live with it in me...and am now very aware of how much anger she could bring into our relationship. I was just looking at a photograph from when my S11 was only 6 and we were hiking together - and I remember how she snipped at him and made him cry - just because of how he was climbing up a slope - a slope that he was very excited to climb up. She was worried about him hurting himself, but the way she expressed it was by snipping at him in a way that just startled him and made him cry.
She used to do that a lot - and when I stood up for my son, which was often, she would accuse me of not respecting her - though from my perspective she had no respect for my son - or for my role as his father - and she had/has this strange conviction that children are to be treated liked fools who are going to do something wrong - and not as little people that can learn from their mistakes - and who can be taught to do what is best in most occasions. Everyone who has ever met my S11 marvels at how polite he is, how intelligent and poised - and yet my W would always treat him as though he were a misbehaved childhood - it would confuse him constantly...and I could see it in her eyes...and over the years there have been many, many instances in which I've seen her father treat her the exact same way.
...about her father...have I mentioned yet that he told one of his employees that he was upset because he felt like baby boy had replaced him. He had actually complained about a 2-year-old baby getting more attention than he...that is just unreal to me...and yet I look at my situation and see that my W started to fall apart around when our son was 1.5 years old - and I then wonder, what was her father like toward her when she was around 2 years old - the first child - and taking attention away from him...
Which brings me back to my thoughts of late...maybe this crisis will be her opportunity to grow out of her past - maybe this is what she needed to improve herself...then again, maybe she won't ever dig in enough to recognize that a lot of her anger and pain comes from inside her - not from me...she's almost managed to push me away completely by now...that's part of the pain of been feeling - my awareness that I'm accepting our M as over and that I have no choice but to step completely into my life AS IF she were no longer part of it...It's not something I ever wanted to do - but I have to - and so I shall.
Any other changes I make will be for me and my kids - as part of my work toward acting as a great man would - there's just nothing else I can do for her - or change for her. I don't know if I'll want to be with her when she comes around - or when she realizes what she's pushed away - but I can't just sit here crying and hoping that she'll wake up - right now she's still this person that can create fictions about me - and who can negative all the happiness of our life - she can lie and she can manipulate - and she can be emotionally abusive in some terrible, terrible ways. She just isn't someone I could be with and be healthy - despite how much I love her - and despite how much it hurts to have lost our M.
So far as I know she's still not getting any help - and from the conversation I had with her father - it's clear that she still blames me for all our problems - since she basically just presented him with a list of problems she had with me...so...I'm going to focus on building me...taking care of me more...and turn my focus more and more away from my W.
NW, I really don't have anything to lose at all - so I figure it's a fine time for the letter. I may wait a couple days just to be sure - but it feels pretty right at the moment. If she gets angry, that's fine, if she responds with the usual curses and vituperations, that's fine as well...It's her anger - not mine - that would be coming out - all I am doing is letting her know the part I played in the demise of our marriage - whether or not she notices any change in me just doesn't matter to me anymore...I know what I've changed in me - and I like the changes I've made - and the changes I continue to work on - they've helped me become a much better father - and a much better person as well...and it may not have happened without having had to go through all this pain.
By this point in my life, I think my friends here know me a lot better than my wife does...which is strange to think...but true.
Okay...so maybe it wasn't what anyone had in mind but I did do something a bit different tonight...I just called her on her rudeness when I said hello and she ignored me (as she always does). I simply said, "why don't you at least try to set a better example for your son? Are you really proud of ignoring me?" To which she said, "I said hello" - but I knew it was BS - and so I just let it go...I got my point across - she can treat me like chitt all she wants but I'm tired of this bs of setting a bad example in front of my son. I'm friendly to her - and say hi to her - and show her respect and she shows nothing of the sort in return...it's just pathetic...and, well, thinking that I just don't want this much longer is making me have a lot less tolerance for it...did I play into her manipulation - maybe - but I didn't get mad - I just got assertive - and was clear about the value of being polite and setting a better example...of course if she wants to continue to be a mediocre person that's her right - but I wasn't going to pretend like I am okay with that anymore...it felt false to me...and like a false way to be in front of my son.
Good for you. She's knows it's not a good example and that's why she BS'd ya. But as you say, you got your point across. Civility is not too much to ask.
Purple and Dudess...wow...you both just made me so very happy! I was actually expecting a 2x4 or two - since it was kind of against the DB/don't play into her drama way of being - but I just figured her rudeness was going too far...and I did NOT want it to seem like I was okay with that any longer...especially since it's clear from her parents behavior that they have a family culture that accepts a lot of rude behavior toward one another...The rudeness used to bother me before this whole mess started...but now, since I am leaning more and more toward influencing my son alone on my side - I wanted to make it clear that I do no play into that kind of childish/negative way of being.
Yes, it was BS - and she did know it...and I did get the point across - I'm certain she's probably already spewing somewhere to someone about how aggressive I was or how it's further proof that I hadn't changed - but I know the truth about me - and where I was coming from...
Dudess, you're absolutely right, civility is not too much to ask. And, Purple, keep reminding me to own my spunky side!
Spunk is one thing that I hadn't seen from you until just now. I dunno if it's dysfunctional of me but it comes across as more attractive.
I think calling her on her BS in a strong yet respectful way, shows you operating from a position of strength - a position of "I'm worth more than the crap attitude you've been giving me, so cut the crap and treat me in the manner that you would like to be treated." - rather than a weak position of "Poor me, I'll just roll over so you can kick me on my other side".
Good Dog!
Last edited by Purple; 01/15/0905:25 AM.
** Purple
As soon as you trust yourself you will know how to live. Goethe
