Dianes Roller Coaster Ride continued... lol

[diane74]

Ooooooooooooooooooo and wow. lol You made me think here and really re-evaluate. I will try and answer as best I can, but thanks for making me take a good look again.

Firstly, yes, my H was never a HUGE talker. That wasn't a problem because we talked and we were always open with one another. We ML regularly and although it wasn't what I would have liked, it was never an issue for me. I know and knew back then that I was a very HD person, so I was satisfied with what we were doing. Never once in our first 5 years did I want more, or feel unsatisfied. Looking back I remember when he wanted me as well. Then it decreased and decreased. Became something that I had to either trick him into or beg for. Which of course I resented and eventually handled poorly. Didn't think so back then, but I know now I did handle it badly. To answer the question of, " what can he do?" Well, that's simple, I'd take about anything at this point. The thing is, he's doing nothing. He has great intentions for the most part. WHEN I finally reach the end of my rope and address it again, we talk, and he says he'll write, or read, or whatever happens to be said at that time. I don't want to push, and I know its hard for him so I wait patiently. NOTHING happens. Here lies the problem. I went as far as one time waiting 2 full years. Hindsight again say's that was wrong, and I should have said or tried to talk to him sooner all those years ago. He really thought things were great. When I finally did come back to him after 2 years, he was stunned to find out I was unhappy. ( In that time, we had not ML once ) As for what I think he can give. I think he could try a little harder. I think that even if it's uncomfortable he should make that effort to at least take a baby steps. I'd like to know that he loves me enough to take those steps that may be difficult for him.

My approach is NOT working for certain. As you have read my last attempt was to try and see if we could communicate thru email to start things off. He has a hard time with words, so I thought this would help him. In saying that though, I still believe that my expectations are realistic for sure. This is NOT the man I married. Had I known my M would have become this, I wouldnt have married him. Sounds harsh but at times I feel like he tricked me into showing me a man he wasn't. We were married and then in a matter of a short years, he just stopped everything. Stopped talking, stopped touching me, stopped being present really. For a long time I didn't dwell on in too much because he's a great man, and we get along great, but then realized I had a roommate and not a husband.

I don't feel it's too much to ask that I understand why he won't touch me. Why when things get tough, he'd rather pretend I'm not in the room, or on the phone etc...... I'm also not opposed to him telling me what to do. Meaning how HE thinks we can figure this out. If it means a C ( which he refuses to see ) or writing, or or or.... But he says, " I dont know " Or " Whatever"

I do believe his needs are being met. I can't be certain cause he won't really say. The most so far I've ever really gotten is he thinks things are great until I get on him about sex. If I could live in a sex-less marriage he would be the happiest man around. That I do know. In my first email to him, I plainly asked him if that is something he wants. I'm starting to wonder if it is. So I just came out and asked.

As for who makes the moves. Well, for a long time, it was me. Then as I said I stopped to leave it up to him, so I wouldn't' be bothering him and he said after that time, he was happy and thought things were great. For the past 6 years its ONLY me. And at this point in all honesty I doubt I will try again for some time. This past October ( after over a year of NOTHING ) I again made the move, and we had a big talk. I explained I was not happy with a sexless marriage etc... We made a plan together, and I thought it was going to be a start of something. NOTHING happened again. Even having a 2 week holiday together. So...........

That's the dilemma. I really don't know what to do. I WILL do anything but unfortunately I'm not being met half way here. I'll take 1/8 of the way at this point.

Hope that answers your questions. Think I got a tad long winded there... But, thanks. I will say it made me really think. I will give him more time, and I will do what he needs to do to make it easier for him, but I can't continue to wait with no progress at all. If I do that, then things just stay the same and I'm living with a brother of sorts. It's why things have gone on this long, cause in reality things are so good. BUT< I don't want to live with my brother. I want a husband. I've done that for too long, and it's time to move forward or start over. OR decide that I will live in a sexless marriage. Haven't totally decided, but doubt it's something I could live with forever.

Thanks again J

[25yearsmlc]

You said you "plainly asked him if that's what he wants" (ie a sexless m) and that you are "starting to think that is what he wants". "Starting to think"????? Wth? What did he SAY? What was his answer?

And are you saying that in all other ways, you are "fine" or "Great"? Really?

You said he doesn't do "r" talk. Also said you used to ml "regularly" but "it wasnt' what you would have liked..." so which is it? I mean, sounds as if these problems are long standing, OR he sort of slid backwards until the "somewhat acceptable" for you, became too much for you, or you changed as well. And the resentment you felt you handled poorly, I assume means you hurt his ego a lot. So he's got some pressure there. And understandable resentments.

If you know you cannot live in a sexless M, or one in which you make all the moves, IF you KNOW this, than what's the question for you here?


Aren't you really asking us the magic words/secret ways to make him change into what you think you need? Sorry, no such thing.

Hate to tell you, but if you are clearly expressing yourself with realistic goals, (and I mean clearly) you may already have your answers but choose to believe otherwise. For instance, The emailing is just another form of R talk that he told you he doesn't do. So I don't see a diff in your approach. You're still demanding that he show you love in your love language, even if it isn't his love language. He said he doesn't do the talking thing, and so, you thought a "180" was... emailing? ....Sorry but it Seems like R talk to me, Just in written form.

Plus, what is it you want him to write down to you? Poems? Sexual thoughts? I'm serious. What is it you want, specifically? Is it something he cannot give you? If he says it is, why don't you believe him? He says he doesn't do R talk and then he doesn't do it. And you're hurt. So you say, "Do it MY way again, by email!, (or you don't love me)" And he doesn't do it. And you're hurt....yet claim his needs are met?

Does he feel attracted to you? Pardon me for asking this, but have you changed much physically? Has he? maybe he has gained weight and does not feel sexually attractive, even if you say he is. Or has he gotten a physical? He could have low testosterone and low libido. Hard question to ask, (pardon the pun.)

You sound as if he has said many things that are rough to hear, but when I re-read your post, I realize he may not have said these things at all. You may be doing a lot of mind reading. So far, if you were really good at mind reading, you probably would not be here.

Now, if you state something quite clearly and it obviously requires a response of some type, but it is ignored...THAT IS A RESPONSE. Just not the one you wanted. Don't wonder about it, don't over analyze and pretend it's confusing. You got the answer. He's either so confused he's paralyzed, which IS an answer b/c the lack of clarity afterr all this time, I mean at some point, simply means his priorities are too wacky or selfish for him to come clean. Too apathetic perhaps. OR he is ignoring you b/c it's the coward's way of saying goodbye and trying to avoid responsibility for it. Does it matter which it is? Again, I'm assuming clarity on your end and no mind reading or guessing games. I heard my d19's friend say that her bf "Should know without me telling him X" and I interrupted and said, "No, men are not mind readers so stop that expectation now..." or be miserable forever.

IOW did he actually tell you he does not want counselling, or refuse to go? What does he say he does want? I have to also ask you, what your R was like with your dad? Any pattern of unavailability, emotionally, geographically, etc?
What's your role in this? You say his needs are being met. Really? Does he seem happy to you? Does he SAY his needs are met? We need to know what is said vs what you think he feels, to really be able to help out. And by the way, from my standpoint, he sounds depressed. Can't tell if it's b/c of the pressure, or the depression caused the disconnect between you, or what...chicken or the egg. At some point, the rehashing of the unchangeable past is counter productive, as are score cards, and all that matters is a united view of the future together.

I heard a man at a M workshop (there without his wife) discuss whether he wanted her to come to the "graduation". She said sure. Then he retracted the invite for some reason. Fine, she said. Then he wondered if he should re-invite her....anyhow, at the end of the workshop he announced that he'd been a fool. He had wanted her to love him in one specific way. HIS way. His "lane of traffic" for love, with certain requirements and dimensions to it, but instead, she had been loving him for decades in all the other lanes, her ways, and he'd missed out on accepting her love for so long. "What a waste" he said.

Now, I'm not saying that sex isn't important. God knows I am Not saying that. But it seems as if there are other things going on here. The "talking" focus, and the taking no initiative.

I am saying your focus and approach is aimed so specifically at what he says he cannot do, I have to wonder if there are things that you are missing. What is it he does do, that makes you feel loved by him? Have you expressed gratitude for those signs of love? Please, do yourself a favor and read Five LL's.

You do "know" your approach so far has not worked. So try something truly different. At least then you'll know you did your part. And if your needs are not being met by him, and the needs are needs only a h can fulfill, you have a choice to make about what you'll do with your life. Changing him is out. Not an option. If you change yourself, who knows what will happen? But GAL is for you to live, well.
What are you doing to GAL?

j-

[25yearsmlc]

Look at your last paragraph too. "In reality things are so good..." wth? But then you say you can't live "with a brother"....yeah, I agree totally. But you sound really confused as well.
Just noting.
j-

[diane74]

Firstly I'd like to say of course I'm confused. I am a lot of other things as well. I am frustrated and hurt and at my wits end. Truth be told I am hoping for those magic words, and not willing to give up quite yet. Do I know these words don't exist, of course I do. I'm here to vent and to cry, and to hear words of encouragement when I can't find any on my own, as I really want my marriage to work. However, I can't do that on my own. Do I know the real question I should be asking myself? YES> Its basically deal with it or get over it at this point. BUT, I have decided to give it this last chance. This final attempt to try and do things differently, use more patience and see if some steps are taken.

I haven't had a response back on if he wants a sexless marriage or not yet. He does not have the internet and because I know he would rather write, I will wait. It's hard for him to talk to me because he gets embarrassed and finds it hard to put things into words. This is why we had decided together that maybe writing would be easier. This way it is at his own pace, and he doesn't have to be embarrassed. I am respecting that.

These are the things he has actually verbally told me in the past.
1) Yes hes attracted to me, and he doesn't know why he never wants sex. Said a few times he'd get a physical, but still has not gone.
2)He would rather write then talk for now ( said in Oct )
3)He said a life without me would be no life at all and that he wants to try ( Oct as well ) Hence, why I'm being patient at this point and waiting for his internet to be hooked up. He will have in on the 22nd.
4)He will not see a C even if it means loosing me in the long run. He stated that he didn't need some half wit telling him how to live his life.
5)After the 2 years where I left him alone completely ( meaning no advances toward ml ) I did try and bring it up again, and he was shocked. He said he thought things were great. He was happy and had thought I was as well.



That is what I do know. Which brings me to here and now. What do I want from him? I want a starting point. We decided to communicate thru email, and that I'm OK with that .( for now )

I do not think I am asking for the impossible here. He did talk, and we did ml......... THERE IS a reason that changed, but I can't figure it out by myself to make it better. I want to move forward from here and with him. If hes willing, great! I will do this, and no matter how long it takes, I'm in it for the long haul. What I can not do, is nothing again. I will not allow it to be swept under the rug again for years to go by. Not fair to either of us.

[Cinco]

Diane, I just wanted to say that I am still praying for your situation. We both share this awful dilemma of whether to stay and fight for our M's or just give up the fight and go.

I am still wrestling with how to tell my W in a way that gets through to her. Tell it in a way so that she finally understands what this means to the survival of our marriage. Indeed it is no easy task. My W is very much like your H. If I try hard to change things, she feels pressured. If I back off and pull away from her, she thinks everything is fine again between us... Maybe fine for her but then I am going crazy.

I feel your sadness Diane because I know how hard this is to go through. Maybe soon we will find our answers to how we will move forward in our lives.... with or without them.

Cinco

[diane74]

Thanks Cinco,

I needed that more then you can imagine. I have been wanting to post on yours and Jayce's threads, but have been at a loss for words to say to you 2.

All I can say is hang in there...
How are things going?

[25yearsmlc]

"Life without you would be no life at all and he wants to try...."

"Won't see a c b/c he doesn't need some half wit to tell him how to live...'

"Won't get a physical..."

so tell me, where's the "trying" in this? Just wondering. You know, MAYBE he's never going to say "I quit" or "You're not worth it"....MAYBE he's going to do as little as possible to change, and say he "tried" but that YOU left HIM....you are still awaiting his response in writing, as if that will tell you...what?

He won't say he wants a sexless m, he'll just have one with you until you leave him, or accept it. Sorry, but right now that's what I see. He loves you, but he's too selfish/odd/saddled with baggage or whatever, to get help. So, that's that. He won't change. A letter with words on it...is enough for you? I mean, maybe it is.
A lot of alcoholics, A LOT of them, love their families. They don't mean to choose to drink instead of go home. They think they'll stop drinking the next day, or whatev.....but they drink some more. So, the only question is for you....

what are YOU going to do w/ a m like the one you have? I mean, it's possible that leaving it is the only way to fix it. All you really know is that your past approaches have failed. What's different in this approach?
J-

[Cinco]

Things aren't going so well right now with my W. I just read and gave her a "love letter" (exercise in M/V for communicating difficult feelings to your spouse) today. I may post the letter over on my thread. Her reaction was very lukewarm and almost predictable. Instead of evoking emotion and feeling for me, it was just more proof that she has closed herself off from me.

I have written on my thread that I am starting to let go of my feelings for her. It's the only way to protect my own feelings and ultimately the only way to move on since she choses not to join me... if it comes to that.

I keep praying that she will find the part of herself that wants me. I'm not sure that it will ever happen now.

Cinco

[25yearsmlc]

Just curious, as it sounds like pursuit. Did you read DB books? I found the 2nd one more helpful.
J-

[Cinco]

Hey 25yearsmlc, the only book I read of Michele's was SSM because that is basically our main problem, no sex or chore-sex take your pick. We have a fairly good relationship otherwise, just too brotherly/sisterly instead of husband/wife.

I'm posting the "love letter" over on my thread with a little more detail.

Cinco