My h's R's with our d19 is much worse than I realized, as I said. ONly he can help work on it. But I think if anyone other than God himself stood in front of h and said, "hey, your 'dream job' and the stubborn refusal to listen to others, cleaned out the savings, cost you 3 years away from d19 (from her mid sophomore year of HS on) and that R still suffers and may not ever be great, thanks to this, and your R with your other children is mediocre, but at least with d11 is salvageable, your M needs lots of attending and you cannot be angry at your w since she waited and waited for you, not to be controlled or criticized by you when you finally do 'show up" and what have you LEARNED from all this????""""" That family is what's important and you had your focus on the wrong sources of emotional nourishment???
I really worry that it'd be so much for h, and his self image -he is a well educated, physician who is used to people admiring him -- SO, I worry that he'd prefer to blame me or the kids for being "ungrateful for all his hard work..." and how he puts himself "last" because he doesn't spend much money on himself (not counting the costs of funding his Alaskan adventure which will always exceed whatever I could possibly spend shopping...).
So even with a smart guy, I worry that the lesson, even one so obvious to others, is just too hard. That we are all flawed and capable of doing rotten things, to some extent. That sometimes we really miss the mark and target and have to refocus entirely. That we have amends to make. It's just too much for some people.
(sigh) H called to say he's coming home this weekend. Seems H wants me to applaud this. Why am I having such a hard time doing that? Why do I want to say, instead, "sorry h, am I supposed to be grateful that you're 'visiting' us again? Oh, thanks so much" I said something snide like, " I don't get your behavior. If we matter, be here. I'm on my last lap here...." H does not like words like that and says so. Damn, I have a bad attitude right now and he lacks insight, so we are gonna be stuck unless I do something different, again....I realize. I will work on it. Sorry for the hijack. But the "blame others!", even in the face of obvious evidence that the WAS created the mess almost entirely alone....amazes... j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
what if the answer is there is no answer? That you are to live with the ambiguity of not knowing? Gilda Radner, the comedian who died of cancer, wrote about it in her autobiography. She said she didn't know how to live not knowing if the cancer would come back, or if she should just go on living as if....and eventually she realized she had to deal with the fact that we all face ambiguity in life; it's inherent in life. Tomorrow is promised to no one.
So, she said to "embrace the ambiguity" and live with it, as well as you can. And be in the now. Not fearing the future, and not rehashing the unchangeable past.
I think that the 'embrace' comment, was the last entry in her autobiography before she died. Anyhow, food for thought. j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Def do not listen to the nay sayers. NOT b/c they are necessarily wrong in terms of what will happen, but b/c it does not help you. I mean, if you had a crystal ball that said "it's over" and when, then you'd move on. But you will never have that crystal ball and so, what's the point of giving up until you have to, if that day comes?
When it comes to marriage and divorce, I'd rather stick around a bit too long, than leave a bit too early...
From your comments, it seems you are obsessing a lot. So much energy and time that could be GAL, which is the one thing that might make a diff to her anyhow...
also, you state the obvious when you talk of OM and how he'd have to be gone for a reconciliation...well, of course. Does anyone think otherwise? So, this means you do have clarity but are somehow not seeing it. As long as OM is in the picture, you have to maintain some space. He's in the picture...so there's your answer, for now.
Will he ever be gone? Well, why wouldn't he be gone down the road? What's so great about him that she'd keep him around for good? Let's assume for the moment, that in some undetermined time period he'll be out of the picture. So, what will you have spent that time apart learning and doing? What's new that you are going to bring to the table? I know you want to yell out "A LOT!" and I believe you. But I also see you looping around with the same questions about if, when and why re: the reconciliation.... get the Stop Sign out and use it. Stop the looping around and switch tracks, or take the exit ramp, (or whatever metaphor works here)...
Embrace the ambiguity or be miserable, be here now, not re-hashing the unchangeable past and worrying about a future that may not happen, and that you have no control over anyhow.Maybe What you need to do is turn it over to God and stop taking it back from Him.
(( j ))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
LD, Will he ever be gone? Well, why wouldn't he be gone down the road? What's so great about him that she'd keep him around for good?
(( j ))
She would stay in this R with OM for the rest of her life just to prove to everyone it isn't a fling or mistake or MLc or whatever. I know her. She won't leave him because she helped break up his marriage. All this is the obvious to me. I haver given her more than enough space. If it wasn't for Thanksgiving and Xmas, I wouldn't see her at all. But I think its plenty.
Her car was repossessed yesterday at her work. she needs 1300 to get it back, her father is lending her 1000. she needs 500 for her deductible to get her car fixed, she says she is going to sell it and break even, she will sell it and be 3000 shy of breaking even. She will get a full time job, she will this and she will that. whatever.....
I want my car ins money friday. I need the money, I am paying bills for my house, my daughter, our food, our utilities not her life with OM. that is obvious.
I just flew home from New York after a very long day. I spent the whole flight looking out the window and thinking everything over and over. didn't ask any questions, listened, listened to Him and listened to me, for once...
GAL energy, have it, obsessing, obvious, 31 years of my life that I have to face has been pissed out the window, obvious....Can't see her face in my mind, can't think of her without a negative thought in my head, and pissed that somehow see gets bailed out again and continues to play in lala land, obvious. I love my wife, i miss my wife and right now I want her back. I have been asked a very unique question many times, now I am asking myself the question. I am not sure of the answer, I have my life and I am getting busier at it. I don't feel like going out much lately, I like visiting friends, but i also need downtime from a very demanding job and my home projects. I am not being a hermit, I am being resposnsivbe for the things I own and getting things accomplished, being here so my daughter knows she has parents, knowing there is a "home" life. She hasn't seen that for a couple of years and it is taking it's toll on her. I have to be there. I am putting things ahead of me because I feel bettter about me when I do. Would I like to go out on dates, go dancing, go to parties, raise the roof, you bet. I don't becasue I choose not to becasue I blame a lot of why I am here on that. I believe I am suffering my pain now because I don't forgive myself. Obvious...
I didn't create this monster, but I didn't do much to stop it. Obvious. She is over me, obvious.
Her crash or hitting rock bottom or what ever it is these MLC WAS ALIENS do to "come" out of it is very far away, not around the corner, or just over the next hill, it is far, far away. My walk is going good, but slow. I will also be far, far, away....Obvious.
No matter how or when she comes out of it, I know, deep in my heart and mind, I will her reason and blame for it all. Obvious....
I will not stand for that, I will not stand for being a doormat, I will not stand and wait, that is not my job now, my job is to go on my "walk" and listen. If there is a marriage to be reconciled, she will have to chase me down. i will not wait for her, Obvious....
The unique question "When will I get to the point of no return?" That is the question of the day, and I know , everyday, for the rest of my life...Obvious...
There is only one guarantee in all of this, I am in pain, and she is the source of the pain. There will be no forgetting that. I am letting her go, I will not talk about her, to her or ask about her. I am tired of asking when and if she will come back, It's like asking when they will have a cure for cancer. Who knows..
I will not dream of her return, I will not hope for a chance to rekindle all we had, because it has meant nothing to her, obvious, can't really argue this with me, because if it did, well, she wouldn't be gone...I will have Faith in me and in Him to help me through this, not resolve it, get me THROUGH IT. because I just want to get over it. I will not go to bed feeling lonely, I will wake up thinking of all the things I have to do. I will not wonder who is bailing her ass out, or if she is with him playng hooky from work or whatever her life is, I will live by these two great statements that I believe will get me through this:
1. I am who I am, I made myself this way, I like me and others do to.
2. Life will show her the consequences of her decisions.
God help her on #2.
I am not saying I am giving up, I just choose not to waste my time on it anymore. For now I am here, if she comes back maybe. But tomorrow is another day, and then there is the question "When do I reach the point of no return?" Eventually there will be an answer. And I am no longer afraid. I am not afraid of new relationships, I will not push them away because of "hopes" and "dreams". If something is meant to be then it will. I will not "what if" my chance for happiness waiting on a horse that isn't even running. There is no guarantees on anything in life, you are right, tomorrow is promised to no one. Live for today, let yesterday be damned. You are right I obsess, I know I do and on my little plane ride home i saw what was needed, I heard what the word was, this walk will speed up now. And waiting, well waiting is what you do when you take someones order and bring them back something...I am waiting on no one...
Let's assume for the moment, that in some undetermined time period he'll be out of the picture. So, what will you have spent that time apart learning and doing? What's new that you are going to bring to the table? (( j ))
Me. My ability to stand tall, not bend, my self esteem and confidence and my manhood.
I have learned to be me, be the best me, be the happy me! What am I going to bring to the table, how bout the fact that she will have a table to sit around. I did what she could not. At the end of the day, I am the prize, not her, not this R/M, me, just me! Do I need a Phd to impress her, no, do I need to make more money to impress her, maybe, do I need anything other that what I have become, I think not. If that doesn't do it for her, she can stay where she is. I am who I am, if she comes back because of that, then thats the best, if she comes back for any other reason, it will not last.
Okay, you are in pain and I know how that sucks. Seriously.
Sometimes parents do things to their children, unintentionally or not, and it hurts the kid. Eventually the child sees this and is upset at the parent. Blames the parent for the pain, or some choice the kid makes is wrong, due to the parental error. But at some point, the child becomes an adult and can no longer blame the parent for the child's unhappiness. So, you say you are in pain and she is the source. I understand that. I do.
But at some point, when will it be your responsibility for your happiness? When will you accept that she is no longer the "source" of your pain, but that you are choosing to be miserable? I'm not saying today. But I am saying you are choosing to obsess and question so much, that you are choosing to be stuck. Stuck in misery. Your questions here are repetitive yet you don't see that. You are choosing pain rather than healing. Healing isn't painless, but it gets you there. Get un-stuck. Make a move away from being stuck. GAL, do a 180, move...on....
Also, her statement that she'll stay with OM to "prove everyone wrong" is both hilarious, and sad. I mean, guess she'll show "them"! Brilliant choice. Be miserable with the wrong guy, so that ..... what?? She'll be....."right" ???? Begs the question of Who is trying to make her "Wrong"? If it's you, stop it. You are not helping your cause. You are prolonging the struggle.
At least she admits her stubborness, openly. I have seen that behavior, but without the awareness, so many times. Someday when she says it out loud again, she might just "hear" herself saying it. And she may wonder what type of life she is leading that keeps her with someone who's wrong for her, instead of trying to fix things, switching tracks and making amends. She's compounding her mistakes. But you cannot tell her this, for your words will fall on deaf ears and if anything, they'll harden her heart more.
My uncle left my aunt decades ago and married the OW. After about 3 years had passed, he confessed to his mom that if he'd "known how much pain it'd all cause, he'd never have left". He did not then return to my aunt. He lived with his regrets. Which was good for my aunt. She moved on and remarried and was much happier. One day the OW who had married my uncle, called my aunt to ask where uncle was. IOW, uncle was cheating on wife #2 as well. My aunt realized suddenly that uncle had done her a FAVOR by leaving, as she'd have had that same stomach ache the ow/w#2 had now. Instead, she was happily remarried...
It is partly why I advise the LBSer to say nothing about the OP. It simply unites them in their actions b/c of the collateral damage they've caused. If they've hurt all these innocents, and then been "wrong", it's a big uphill battle in life for them. Let them figure out why so many 2nd marriages fail, especially when they started out as A's. Let them discover why the stats reflect this. You cannot be the one to point it out, it serves you NO purpose.
She has to sort it all out and not have you standing over her shoulder telling her where the pieces go. It slows her down in the path of finding the truth. This is a puzzle only she can solve. Back off and GAL and live it. Stop the obsessing. Get the stop sign out or whatever. You are looping around with the same unanswerable questions...
Do you really think you'll get letters in the sky telling you exactly what to do and when? Man, I hope you do. But I have to say, you'll be the first. Most of us struggle with this and have to examine our motives a lot. Like every day. "Am I being punitive, or setting a healthy boundary? What is my goal in saying 'X', or doing 'y'?" "Will this move me towards my goal or not?" Expecting an answer with great clarity is a little like saying you'd like to live a risk free life. We are all semi-guessing our way here.
Every day I ask myself things like that. At least I'm living an honest life of intent. I do very few things without knowing why I'm doing them now. And I accept that I may have to double check things, b/c I am not living with certainties all around. Just a few. The clarity I have is within me, not others' actions or what they mean or feel. Just mine. That has to be enough. Otherwise, I'll spend all my life wondering and pondering and asking, and not living or deciding or choosing. Waiting around for an answer can be a lot like not living.
(( hugs )) j
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
"The clarity I have is within me, not others' actions or what they mean or feel. Just mine. That has to be enough. Otherwise, I'll spend all my life wondering and pondering and asking, and not living or deciding or choosing. Waiting around for an answer can be a lot like not living."
Better and truer words I have never read. Excellent. everyone has told her about her mistake and her choices, trust me, she will stay miserable to be "right". I do not make her wrong or right, I am neither to her. The plane ride was good, quiet, up in the clouds, my head clear. I wanted to post my thoughts right away and read your words and they were dead on with what I told myself, let it go, man, let it go. If you keep worrying whether or not she'll be back, you'll die young.
It is my responsiblity for my happiness, me and me alone, and I am believe it or not. But she created a pain, damge unlike anything I have ever felt. She opened wounds I did not know I had, will they heal, sure they'll heal. I know this. She doesn't admit her stubborness, she doesn't see it as stubborn, she sees it as right.
And yes i am aware i am stuck int he same three questions, over and over and over and etc...
again part of my listening to myself. I will detach from her, let her go and like I told Amy, begin to let it go like it will never be back. It hurts to think that, but I need to get over this and understand the nevitable, there is no coming back. There is realizing what you want and going after it and there is walking away from it because you didn't believe it to begin with. this is where I am. Stuck on a very thin line of knowing I loved her more, and does she love me enough. I did everything for her and was proud of my wife, she cannot say the same of me and has told everyone how miserable and unhappy she has been for 2-4 years, apparently the standard time frame for MLCers when they bounce and drop the I love you but not in love with you line of rhetoric.
I am not miserable, except when I think of her, there are no happy thoughts in my head about her bercasue I will not recall the past, it hurts. I know what I knw, she was in love with me 10 day sbefore but that was an obvious lie. i ghad a therapist read an email she sent me, he said she meant it, I deleted it and threw the hard copy away, it was a lie.
I will not get signs from her or Him about my "reconcilitation" or my "life desires" or any other crap floating through my head. The only sign i ahve right now is "WALK". I cannot look back. In the image I physically can't turn my head, because he doesn't want me to . I am taking that as a sign. I know I won't last as long as most of the people on here have, God bless their strength. I will not be where she is. Her mother is coming up next week and I have made an appointment to visit with erh without her daughter present. My D29 told my W this and she said why can't we all sit together, he did it on xmas and we got along so well. she told her, he didn't do it for you, he did it for us. He didn't even want to come because you were going to be there. Again she asks, what's his problem? and again she is told you cheated on dad and are sleeping with another man.
she doesn't see it as an issue. But I have the "problem". I am happy most of the time, I find myself rehashing the same BS about what happened, the cycles of MLSC, the blah blah blah about the blah blah blah...
I don't know anything about what I have read, I do not understand or comprehend what I have read. all I know is I do the DB'ng and all I am getting is frustrated. My own version will be best it is the LRT LRT. I will keep to my goals of the new year, of which reconciliation is not listed. I will make my life all that it can be. Once I get to that point, I will answer the question. I pretty much know the answer, but haste is not in this equation.
I have said it before through frustration but I am beginning to belive now that it is not just wanting to be miserable, she is this person. She is unfeeling to me, no desire to me, no desire to see what she has done. she has done nothing wriong, ask her friends, she tells them all the time.
It is like believing a mass murder feels bad after he kills. No he doesn't.
No, she is going to be that low percentage of people who slip into MLC WAS ALIEN and stay there for the rest of their lives, and almost all become bitter miserable peope if the books are to be believed.
I have nothing that tells me different, there are no signs, there is nothing but the purest feeling of joy she seems tohave in her life. Do I believe it, no. do I think she is happy? No. Do I really care, I did and hoped it would turn around. with each layer of hope, I got slapped 10 fold.
No, you are right, I am making myself miserable and it ends now. I will make my demands for the car ins money on Friday, regardless of her finacial woes. If she ain't got it, then she is cancelled February 1st. I have to talk to my agent Friday anyway. So once wshe gets her car back, she will need to get her own insurance, pay the downpayment and get it set before February 1. If I cancel it and she doesnt' she will need to register her car and start the process all over again, by herself.
Again, I didn't put her there, but I will not enable this any longer. My walk must be taken, I can't get off the rock to start. He is waiting on me to get up and gt moving so we can walk and Talk about what it is i need to do and where I need to go. Noice all the "I" s in this. Again, He is not looking to give me reconciliation, He is looking to get me through it so I get over it.
"Also, her statement that she'll stay with OM to "prove everyone wrong" is both hilarious, and sad. I mean, guess she'll show "them"! Brilliant choice. Be miserable with the wrong guy, so that ..... what?? She'll be....."right" ???? Begs the question of Who is trying to make her "Wrong"?"
eveyone has the same feeling about her choises. whos is makingher wrong, well that would be her...She has to live with this mess. a realtionship with someone that is doomed to fail. A realtionship that from all accounts needs to be slavaged so that she can find her happiness will be gone. Oh yeah, she is still waist deep in her justifications and trying to "bring" him around to the circle of friends. Oh, by the way, she has tried so hard in some cases she has locked hersel;f out of some circles.
Nope, couldn't agree with you asseesment of me more. You and Amy and Tgone and Dd were dead on, so was FH. But I need to get out of Dodge as it were. I will no longer see the probability in us ever getting back together because it clouds my mind and fillsit with such high doses of BS, that the slightest things set me off. so we start the walk again, but htis timeI am listening and not talking, I am not taking action I am following directions. Its sad and it hurts. But the reality is there, if I chose to wait, I will die inside everyday that I do.
Again, I am standing firm and want my W back. i want to build a new life together. I am holding to that belief, I have faith in what I am doing and pray that this Faith leads her to me. Waiting is the enemy with me right now, I must do, and what I must do is walk and stick to my goals. she is not a part of either.If I can hold her out of my head, then the detaching process is wroking, if not, I will try something else. DB'ng isn't really working for me other than helping me move forward, it is doing nothing for us...But I like what its done for me and everyone around me likes the change. No, she is not around me and I don't really care what she thinks. Look at her current status, yeah, I care what she thinks...God help her, she needs it.
Woke up tired this morning, but true to my word. Thought about all the things that I need to do today and then looked over my weekend projects. Hard not to think about her, but suppressing the thoguhts nonetheless. Have to meet with D17 guidance counselor this mornng about her school work. I don't think its a good meeting. Applied for a couple of jobs on-line last night, anyone no anyone hiring inthe Mass-NH area? LOL
Expecting real cold temps with windchill the rest of the week. Good weekend to do my projects and get them done, finally. going to D29 house maybe Saturday night with D17 for her birthday. Looking forward to it.
Trying not to mention her here as it will obviously mean I am thinking of her. Will post back end of day and let you know how I survived.
Well the meeting with D17's guidance counselor was real bad. she wants to drop outof school, when we started to get into her issues, she brought up that "Mom isn't the bitch everyone else makes her out to be, she made a mistake, so what get over it." Apparently D17 has chosen her side. I asked her why she nevers talks to me anymore, I thought things were good, she says she talks to her mother and thats enough.
She says she gets harrassed in school about stuff and can't deal with all of it, refuses to talk to anyoneand I believe as does the guidance counselor that she is suffering from onset depression. I said you live wirth me and I am your legal guardian becaus eof that and her reply was, mom stilllegally lives there, you cna't control my life.
I am absolutely devastated by this. I have no wrods. She actually said you put us in the mioddle of this in the summer. to which I told her I had apologize and haven't done that.
She also said I have heard you say things like why doens't her f'ng boyfrined pay for this and that. Why doesn't she just call her f'ng boyfriend. That was earlier on, I make sure anything I say in that regard is in closed doors and to only one person other than this site. She is definitely rehashing stuff that is coming back to the surface.
But I am destroyed, I thought we had a great relationship, but apparently all this time with her mother has ended that. She was so cold to me in this meeting, I even asked her, diod I do something wrong to you, do you not want to live with me? the looka nd attitude I got from her was the same one her mother gave me when she told me it was over.
Not to analyze this, but ecause she is having problems with people in school and other emotional issues, she is walking away, just like her mother did. So now I wonder, if she is seeing what her mother did and feels, rather than stay and fight, I can just back it up and leave.
I am absolutely destroeyd. I have hit rock bottom again...The guidance counselor is going to callW, becaue D17 says her mother says its ok with her.
This I believe may now be my point of no return, I have to really think it out for a few days, but this could really be it.
