Two WAS's- is it really meant to be or walk away?

[Loving_Life]

Thinking about what I have done and anything new I can try...

-Done a lot of GAL, and stbx knows it. He showed a little curiousity/jealousy when we talked on the phone a couple mo ago. However, now that he is contacting me less- there are less chances to show it. It's possible my myspace pics could get a reaction, we'll see. Could drop more new life/mystery hints in our emails, possibly get flirty but not directly to him, just showing I'm "fun"

-LRT, going dark- done a lot of this- I think it has made him think about our R and share his thoughts. He admitted he thought I might have OM back in october, and he felt curious and rejected. (Then he said I made him feel better by showing my interest in him, but this helped him "move on" and he didn't want an R-so I went dark again) Another author I read mentioned men can be motivated by loss and voids. I moved away 2,000 miles and he hasn't seen me in almost 6 months. That's a huge void/loss. We've never been apart like this in our whole 15 yrs together. When I don't respond to every email, he starts emailing more. No phone calls since October though. I told him I didn't want to be 'friends' if we got a D. Part of me wonders did I discourage him from calling me anymore then or was it good that I was standing up for myself?

-Compliments- In most conversations since our S, I make sure to admire something he did or compliment/thank him for something he did. Seems to make him more friendly, but 'amicable D' friendly. If it seems like I'm interested in him too closely, he might brag a little, but usually backs off more. In the emails lately, he just doesn't respond to personal comments and tries to keep it mostly "business"

-Listening/understanding his point of view- Have done a lot of this. He shared a lot of feelings a couple months ago, and was glad I could understand. He feels relieved I understand. I think he thinks he's done with sharing now, he said what he had to say already. It's working well for me to understand him in the final settlement progress, we're basically having an "amicable" agreement on things.

Additional thoughts...the last time we were S, I moved back in w. him as a roommate b/c I needed a place to stay (then we got closer again over the next few mo.) We were also in much closer contact during that S, he called me every other day for 5 months straight. This time, I'm long distance, so that isn't an option and he's no longer calling. I don't know, maybe it is time to move on.

He claims there is no OW, and does not want any woman. It could be that yes, he is this withdrawn to protect himself and 'move on'. Stbx is famous for putting up an ice cold wall toward people. Or he could be lying, it's hard to know when I'm so far away... I think there are w he flirts with online, but he's also been into that for years.

[Trixi]

Hmmm...I wonder if people read my posts the way I read yours? Like my first thought was "Why would someone like L_L want to go back to someone that is clearly an addict? What is she thinking?! She can do so much better!"

I know that your parents have been married for a long time, but I am wondering if there was any alcoholism in your family when you were growing up? (Just sort of curious because I know that in my case, there were addictions and it has made it difficult for me to fully stand up and be counted and not just take crumbs or "try harder" to keep the peace....I see some of that in you.)

So, let me ask you this- in his CURRENT condition- is this man good enough for you?
Is he good enough to move 2000 miles for?
Is he the sort of partner that you should move out of an area you love and flourish in? Would you still be able to flourish in WI?
(Believe me, I see how hypocritical I am being when I ask those questions of you.)
Are you *really* wanting to go back to a situation where music is number 1? Where he thinks he has no substance abuse problem? Where you have to deal with his bi-polar'ism? (OH! maybe that's it (regarding the alcoholism question) maybe you have been with him for so long in your young adult life that you have ended up in a dynamic that is like alcoholism. I haven't been with someone bi-polar, but growing up in a household where there was substance abuse, I had to learn to be VERY sensitive to the moods of the house so I would know when to be invisible/not cause trouble and when it was 'safe' to ask for things. Is it the same with someone that is bi-polar? Do you need to "watch" carefully to try to anticipate their mood and then act/react accordingly?)

Is that okay with you that he flirts online?

Okay- I've asked a lot of questions-looking forward to your answers.

[Loving_Life]

Trixi- thank you! Your post hit on a lot. I think having this thread is helping me so much- I really need to be able to get out my feelings and sort them out to make it through all this. Thank you to everyone else who takes moment to give me any thoughts as well.

I am wondering if there was any alcoholism in your family when you were growing up?

Yes- my dad, my grandfather and now my sister all have issues with alcoholism. Yes, I was *used to* picking the right moment and weathering mood swings, and I still am- since I am temporarily living with my parents and also my sister. Luckily they are all in better shape than stbx is. So, it's not that bad, but I still feel it some. Depression also runs on my Dad's side and of course stbx has that too. Yes, bipolar is all about mood swings and impulsive behavior (bipolar=manic depression) I have gone to Alanon a few times too. I've gone to IC and MC previously (that's another story).

So, let me ask you this- in his CURRENT condition- is this man good enough for you?

I asked myself this last night and had to think a while- why do *I* want to stay married? My immediate gut reaction was 'I don't know'. Then I came up with this list:
-I never wanted to be divorced (I know no one here does) I value M, I want a family.

-Maybe I'm being too harsh toward him in my thoughts- I feel like I miss him sometimes. I thought we had something special at one time. He used to tell my Dad that I was #1 in his life (that's been at least 5yrs ago now, though) But, I wish he was the person I used to know, I wanted to be with that man I knew when I was 20, that's what I thought I was getting (I've seen stbx get worse with his issues in the time I've known him-the literature I've read says bipolar is progressive if not treated)

-Maybe there's a possibility he can change ( I know that's a huge hope and it's not looking likely right now)

In his current condition, no he's not good enough for me. This is sad and a hard one to process. When I met stbx, I thought he was wonderful. I had these great dreams of happily ever after that are now shattered (yes I was young and I am a romantic). After spending 15yrs together, it feels like a loss (not considering his behavior) but the loss of my M and my own 'family' and my house, etc.. I'm literally rebuilding from scratch on everything (job, home, friends) here in my new city.

I definitely know I'm in a way better city, now. No, I don't really want to go back to the midwest. I wanted to move here for years. At one point right after we got back together from 1st S, stbx and I talked about moving to Seattle together. Then he changed his mind. Stbx even visited Seattle on his own during our S and loved it.
But now he insists he will not ever come out here.

You're right, we were really young when we got together (and everyone says this to me), and I feel like stbx was supposed to be my family.(I did date 4 others before stbx-one serious) Anyway, before I left I had a huge list of why he was not good enough for me. Part of it is angry, but it is also truthful in a lot of respects. Basically, we were living separate lives and our M had disintegrated to the point where there was resentment and avoidance going on. It would take a lot of commitment from both of us to rebuild it. I am willing, but he says he is not. Of course he said this during our last S too- when we pieced it was because of me approaching him and saying I needed a place to stay, could I stay with him again please. He did not decide he wanted to piece our M, he just gradually warmed up to me after I moved back in with him. Looking back, perhaps that was a desperate move, perhaps he never was as committed as me. I do feel like I've been the one holding it together for so long.

Music is #1-
Lots of thoughts to let out here.... Stbx admitted to me a few mo. ago (during our talks in October) that music is #1 b/c it can't hurt him, it only brings him joy. The same is true about our dogs- he loves the dogs more than people b/c they only give unconditional love. I told him I was sorry for ever hurting him- I'm only human and I wanted him to know that I care about him. We both agreed we never wanted to feel hurt again. This is what sucks me in! I feel like I have a chance to help him get through his feelings and then he might change his feelings toward me again. Why do I feel like I have to work so hard for love????

[Loving_Life]

A few more thoughts..

Why do I still want to be M?

-I find stbx attractive physically, he was a good lover
-Our history together, stbx feels like a longtime friend (but not really the best friend to me I suppose)
-I think stbx is smart intellectually and talented in his music. I admire that he is determined to make his music a success. I admire that stbx can be a strong person and make it through anything (of course this backfires against me too)
-I value M, I want my own family, don't like the idea of D- feel like a failure (I know this is all me, and not him)
-I remember the times when stbx made me feel like I was special. He would ask for hugs and be so loving/sensitive, more sensitive than any one I have ever known (it was very up and down in frequency though) He's a man of extremes (bipolar). It's either "all or nothing" with him.


Seeing the 'good' in a situation is my one of my habits and coping mechanisms. It is a strength of mine, I know I just need to use it to help myself and take care of myself.

[Trixi]

-I find stbx attractive physically, he was a good lover
-Our history together, stbx feels like a longtime friend (but not really the best friend to me I suppose)
-I think stbx is smart intellectually and talented in his music. I admire that he is determined to make his music a success. I admire that stbx can be a strong person and make it through anything (of course this backfires against me too)
-I value M, I want my own family, don't like the idea of D- feel like a failure (I know this is all me, and not him)
-I remember the times when stbx made me feel like I was special. He would ask for hugs and be so loving/sensitive, more sensitive than any one I have ever known (it was very up and down in frequency though) He's a man of extremes (bipolar). It's either "all or nothing" with him.


Seeing the 'good' in a situation is my one of my habits and coping mechanisms. It is a strength of mine, I know I just need to use it to help myself and take care of myself.

OMG- did I write this???? I'm serious-w/the exception of the bi-polar part, I could write all of this. Actually, I have wondered if my H is bi-polar...

I especially relate to the last part about seeing the 'good' in a situation...

L_L, you have a great head start on creating a happy life for yourself. The only thing you H can give you right now, is the "title" of "Wife". (Not to diminish being a wife--just saying that he doesn't have anything else to bring to you.)

OTOH, you have A LOT to offer to someone. You know that you can love someone; that you can survive being hurt and not turn to your "art" to stay safe; you know you can be loyal, faithful and committed and you aren't afraid to put in some actual *work* to keep a marriage together.

I have a friend who is twice divorced. He never wants to marry again. He's been dating a girl for 2 1/2 years and is perfectly happy living an hour away from her. He said to me "I like my life. I don't want to have to compromise to live with someone. I don't want to get hurt again. If GF and I break up, I know I'll survive...You'll see; once you realize what your H has put you thru, you'll feel the same way." How very sad. I might be naive or pollyanna, but I still believe in marriage. I still believe that it's possible to make a life that both people can be happy with. And you know what? I don't want to lose that view.

L_L, of course, I still think that saving a marriage is the ideal-BUT, you can lead a horse to water....

Of course, if you want to give things one final shot, I support you. If it makes him take pause and reconsider, please make sure that HE does some work. DON'T be the one that keeps it together only to have it fall apart in a year or two when you have moved back and given up what you have worked for out there. KWIM?

[Loving_Life]

DON'T be the one that keeps it together only to have it fall apart in a year or two when you have moved back and given up what you have worked for out there.

This strikes me- yes, this thought exactly runs through my head. Especially since we were previously S before and wound up here again 4yrs later. And no, stbx doesn't have a lot to offer. I have to face reality:

-stbx has drug problem, won't quit
-stbx leaned on me to pay all the bills
-stbx is bipolar (At least 1/2 of the time angry/mean, ignoring me)
Won't take medication
-stbx is not interested in me or our M anymore
-I am in a better city than I was before with a lot of great, new friends and family

Saw that stbx logged into his myspace pg Sun, so he probably saw the new pictures. No contact yet.

I don't know, my sitch may be dead. I'm headed toward D day- date has been set for March 9. If we're in agreement on a settlement, this could be the final D. My lawyer called me today to discuss the final settlement. Basically, I'm "acting as if" and going along w. the D. There is a lot that would have to change for things to work and stbx isn't even interested in me anymore. If he showed any interest, I would start talking to him and see what happens.. but, that may not even happen. Even though I wasn't perfect, I have done a lot to try and save this M over the last 15yrs. We almost split up two times before and I hung on. I shouldn't be faulting myself anymore.

My emotions are surfacing re: just dealing with the whole thing. I think it's hitting me b/c D day is approaching. When I left this summer, it was hard but I knew there was still a tiny hope things could turn around. Now, that hope is fast diminishing, I think I'm definitely going to keep posting to get through it all. Luckily, I'm not having problems w. the paperwork and stbx is being 'amicable' in our agreements. It's the emotions that are the hardest to get through.

I do feel kind of used. Stbx leaned on me for so long to pay for our bills and now that we're getting the D, he immediately borrows money from his family and his RM (which he refused to do before). I know he's just finding a new means of support since I'm gone- but it's so obvious that he was using me financially. I'm lucky that he has paid his half on a number of bills. Funny how now we're getting D that I'm actually in a BETTER financial situation!

[Loving_Life]

He thinks that I am kidding myself that I could be happy with him since he does not want to give anything to me.

This is something stbx said to me in Oct when we were talking more. He said he felt guilty he couldn't provide for me and that he didn't have the time to give me what I deserved (emotional connection, doing things together, etc) b/c building his music career was the most important thing to him. He said he could tell that my resentments built up toward him b/c I wasn't getting fulfilled and he understood that's why I was angry at him. He came to this realization after we were apart 3 months.

This burns in my head. On the one hand it makes me feel like wow, he's pretty much telling me he knows he's not good enough for me. On the other hand, my heart goes out to him and I want to somehow show him I always did think "he was good enough" He has been "my hero" before, but the problem is how would he give me what I need again now. Could I really influence him enough to change? Any advice?

[Trixi]

Even though I wasn't perfect, I have done a lot to try and save this M over the last 15yrs. We almost split up two times before and I hung on. I shouldn't be faulting myself anymore.

PRECISELY!

I understand the emotions starting to surface. Vent away!!! Right now, it looks like your stbx would bring nothing but heartache to the table.

((((L_L))))

[Loving_Life]

Thanks Trixi. I realize that I can be a DB success by improving myself and enjoying new things in my life. I am doing a great job of that, most days. I think this is even mentioned in the book, perhaps. I do feel successful for having made it to piecing once as well. Too bad my old posts were long gone by the time I came back to the boards (It was 2003-2004). I do fault myself for not keeping up with DB a lot after piecing. Part of me wonders if I could have dramatically improved my sitch that way.

Even though there is a lot of distance, stbx told me he could tell I was happier and GAL. I think that is why he stopped blaming me for our sitch (before he was full of anger/blame). At least we're able to D amicably.

It feels so good to get it all out. Emotions are still up and down some though. Part of me is still horrified of a D on some level. I don't know if I'll ever feel 100%- do I just go ahead and sign the papers if I feel 80% or 70%. What a feeling. This whole thing has been "Act As If". Some days I wonder is this insane or have I really been sticking up for myself the whole time, and that's a good thing. What if I had refused to leave the house last year and I insisted on staying w. stbx. Maybe I would still be in $#%. I'm lucky because I don't have to travel back to my old state and see stbx. My L said we can do this over the phone. She will be at the court to represent me. That's pretty easy. Thank god, b/c I don't think it would be very easy for me to see him in person and sign the final papers. Every time I have have been S (doesn't that sound nuts), I always end up feeling like I miss stbx and I wish it could work. It's the distance that does it- thinking about what could have been, what I could have done better. It feels weird living my life without stbx after having been with him for a long time. These are the thoughts that get me.

[Loving_Life]

So, less thoughts about my M or D the last few days. More thoughts about getting a job. (I'm staying w. family while I look for a new job in my new city). Trying to have continuous faith about landing a new job when rejections keep coming in. Lots of competition. This is honestly a challenging time- but maybe thinking that doesn't help. I know it's all about the power of positive thinking. Apparently, I need to have god-like confidence to be able to do this. Maybe that is the lesson life is teaching me right now. How to have extraordinary PMA.