Kalni, I was reading the book, TheJourney, by Billy Graham (what a wonderful book)around the time Bill and I were starting to get to know each other. It brought me so much peace at the time (sadly, it's been a while since I read it). But, that ONE phrase that Bill quoted really stuck out to me and it has become one of my favorite quotes.
I read the statement in the context that I had not been taken away from my exH, he had been taken away from me. For whatever reason, no matter how hard I had prayed for my marriage to be restored, it was not meant to be. No matter how hard I tried, it didn't work. I had to believe there was a reason. And, for me, there was. My marriage to my exH was not what a marriage should be. There was alcoholism, verbal abuse, as well as mental and emotional abuse. Not to mention...infidelity (secrets that had been kept from me for YEARS). And, there was even ridicule and taunting because I went to Church and was raising my children in Church (we are Christians). All of this from a man who had grown up in the Catholic Church and attended Catholic school for most of his childhood.
Did I deserve that kind of treatment? Did my children?
My exH is 100% fully responsible for the choices he made...that is something that God gave us....the ability to make choices. I believe with ALL my heart that God took me out of that marriage. He saved me (again)because he knew that my exH was killing me on the inside. God knew the woman I was and had the potential to be, but I was not able to be that woman, I was not able to do God's work while I was in that marriage.
God took my exH from me....no matter how badly I thought at the time I needed him, because HE had something FAR better in store for me...Bill and a marriage that is based on love, honesty, commitment, and faithfulness (everything that a marriage should have/be). As silly as all of this may sound to everyone else, I firmly believe that God brought Bill and I together. We have so much in common and we have plans to do God's work together (just as soon as we are able to live together). I am so excited about all the opportunities that lie ahead for us.
I would not be the woman I am now, if I was still in my first marriage. I am by NO means perfect, far from it, but I have learned so much about myself, my God, and what marriage should really be like! How awesome it is to have a spouse that loves me! To have a husband that LISTENS and talks things through w/ me, even if it means we may not see eye-to-eye. A husband that respects me, that does not curse me or yell at me. A husband that can function without a beer in his hand.
No one here knows this, but as a part of our wedding ceremony, Bill and I had a communion service, just the two of us. It was, for us, a way of committing our marriage to God because as I said earlier, we both know that God brought us together. HE gave us both something beautiful and something to be cherished....HE brought us our FAR better!
Now, understand...I AM NOT telling you all of this to encourage you either way. As I have told you before, I always hesitate to post because I have to post from my heart and I worry that I may come across as pro-divorce, which is NOT the case at all. I strongly believe in the sanctity of marriage and that it is and should be a commitment that is meant to last a lifetime. I believe with all my heart that a couple should do everything possible to save their marriage. But, I also believe that there are times when one spouse makes choices that tear down that marriage and hurts the other person so badly that God has to step in and save that person. Now, do I believe that God believes in divorce? No! I know that divorce is the last thing God wants for a marriage. But, I also believe that HE will allow only so much pain and abuse to one person. I shared all of this with you (sorry it was so long) to explain to you the quote Bill shared with you last night and the impact it had on MY life and how it helped ME...it helped me see that God had better plans for me...it helped me get myself up off the floor and set my eyes on the future.
Kalni, I hope I have not confused you more. Please know that more than anything, I want to help you because I can truly feel your pain (in so many ways).
No answers.. just loving thoughts, warm fuzzies and caring.
I do this 'forgiveness' thing now. When someone does something that get under my skin, I silently forgive them. They're just being them.. it's how I react to it that makes it a problem for me. So I forgive and let go.
"Forgive and forget" never made sense until I started doing this. Many times I'm fighting my greatest battles against myself.. which are sparked by an interaction with someone else.
This isn't "I suck", "Why is it always me?" type of thing. It's.. hey someone can cuss a blue streak in front of me and it doesn't bother me.. but goodness, tease me for more than 8 seconds and I'm a basket case. That's ME, my body's tuning, that brings out the tweaking. Forgive the other person.. it's not their fault I'm sensitive to some things. In the process, my own personal muck seeps out and I get better and better.
Hey K, loss of hope is a very tough position to find oneself in. I think that in reading all of this and seeing the interactions there are some things that stand out to me and being that I tend to speak my mind I am going to say what I have to say, bear with me and in advance do not take this as a personal attack or giving you grief, more stating the obvious.
I believe you have your mind made up already. I believe you have for a little while now. I am not saying there is anything wrong with that, just that it is the way things have been. The WAS leave because they have made a decision that things are simply unfixable and they will better without their spouse. The effort that they do put in is a joke, it is simply so they can tell themselves and you that they did try. So I guess what I want to know is do you really feel like you have done your part or not? Forget about what he has done,have YOU?
Your husband says you haven't changed, is he right at all? Have you truly made the efforts to change the things that he has said need changing? Is it not worth it to change them because he is not working on his issues? You see the changes that we choose to make can burn us. We sometimes decide to change those things for the completely wrong reasons. For them. If the change isn't for you because you truly want to change it about yourself then it will never work. WE cannot change something in ourselves that we do not believe needs changing. You can fake it all you want but if it isn't a real change they will see through it and you will revert back to the true you.
I am a huge supporter of Bworl and Deb, they both did some incredible work on themselves and regardless if they had found each other or not they both would have been ok because of how they chose to make their lives.It is something we should all aspire to do, for ourselves and no one else. So, with that said, regardless of how your marriage works out, are you taking the necessary steps to transform yourself into who you want to be? Or are you operating day to day solely based on your marriage? It's a trap we all fall into at one point or another.
K, sometimes there comes a point where we have to simply say enough is enough. Your not happy right now, your constantly having to deal with the situation and the lack of progress, and not for nothing but it appears to me that you just want it to be ok to say that it is over. If that is the case, then understand that it is. If you have reached that point and you do feel like you have changed what you can and have done all that you can do to make things work and nothing is changing then there comes a point where you must simply save yourself.
The thing that I challenge you on however is that I feel like you still have a whole lot of work to do on YOU. Forget your marriage at this point and focus on yourself for a while. Stop dealing with the relationship at all, back away and deal with yourself and your kids. Your email to your H is a starting point, and by the way, not everything has to be DB perfect..... I don't really think his response matters as to me it seems that whatever he says will be taken a certain way. If he says he agrees and it is over then you say to yourself "see, I was right he doesnt want to change", if he says he still wants time you will say to yourself, "what's the point he isn't going to do anything anyway". It's sort of a catch 22 for him isn't it?
So maybe at this point it is simply a good move for you to say that YOU have decided that it is done. That you don't want to fight the fight anymore. Own it, simply own that this is where you are at and how you feel you need to move forward. Every one of us here will support whatever decision you make K, just make it for yourself is all. Do not make giving up about his actions or decisions, they are not the sole reason for where you are today.
I hope you understand what I am saying to you and hear teh message.
WOW. K, you have gotten some invaluable insight here from Deb and Ian. I hope that you will read it and absorb it.
Honestly, I feel Ian is correct in thinking that you have already decided to let your M go but aren't willing to flat out say that as it will look like giving up. Maria, you have to say enough is enough at some point. Both of you need to grow a lot for yourselves. Maybe you aren't going to be able to do that as long as you are together. Maybe you can. Only you can decide that.
The changes must be for you, not for your H and what he expects of you. If he can only love you if you act a certain way and that way is NOT you, then is it really love or control? The same goes for you. Is there only one way that you would accept your H? If so, why? What was so different about him when you fell in love with him that is now changed to something unacceptable?
T19 M15 S19 XH47 M43 bomb12/4/07 PA5/07 S12/26/07 D final 11/17/08 Back together with no defined R 05/2010 confused....to say the least!!!
OK, first of all Deb I never feel you are pro divorce. Never. Your story, is diferent than mine. I keep what Ian says from what you tell me, how you took this and turned it around to become instead of an end to a beginning of whole new life. You were "lucky" enough to meet Bill and do this trip together, but I agree you would have been OK even if you had not met Bill. So, dont worry about me misunderstanding your posts. I understand them, I think, they way you mean them.
Ian, thank you for speaking your mind. If you had been around form the start you would know I am one that appreciates 2x4s even more than encouragement some times. But, you are wrong about one thing. I have not yet made up my mind. I have not yet completely given up. You see, a lot of things have changed, I have changed, my way of looking at life has changed. It wasnt just H and his choices, it was my kids suffering, my family and what came out of this mess (I have now a brother who I know is there for me in tough times), I have friends I would support in any possible way (not that I didnt before but some people just became family for me, with the greatest meaning of the word), I have reevaluated my job and what it gives me, and I have tried to change the one and serious thing that has been making my life complicated and difficult:my pessimism. That is what bothered H too for a long time.
You see,if you knew my story, we started off as a fairy tale and soon had to deal with consecutive really bad moments in our common life. Everytime I would think things cant get any worse, they would. Soon, I lost all my strength and just gave up and became bitter and angry. I never said I was justified to be this way, but I do believe it happened as a reaction to what was going on in our life.
During last year, I realised that worse never is the worst, there is no ceiling to it. So, after my dads illness (maybe even before that but that really did it to me)I figured I should be more grateful for what I have and not complain about what I dont have. I regained my attitude of my earlier years, the attitude that attracted people to me and I had lost, I stopped being so self absorved, in misery mostly -dont think arrogance- and started enjoying life. That is what my H saw and wanted back. I think.
I managed to change little things I always wanted to, about finance, house issues etc etc. And I am sticking to these changes because I feel better. So, these were not for him.
What I am dealing with now, to me, makes no sense. So I spend a lot of time trying to figure it out. It affects my mood, my strength, my will to live my everyday. Maybe it shouldnt, but it does.
In my case, my H has not been a mean person (with a few excemptions), there was no abuse, drinking problems, cheating etc etc. He has been a good father granted the time he had for us. He has loved me very much and although in retrospective I can see him not being very expressive, he was able to make me feel loved somehow.
Now, it's...zero, nothing. I dont feel it. Maybe because he deosnt show it together with the fact that I have really changed and I need more. My H is like a piece of me. That will never change. I know now. During our trip together, I was very disappointed but there were moments I though "this could work if only...". We were the 4 of us on a snowmobile laughing, my kids having a great time and although we were nothing like a couple, the hapinness I saw in their eyes was enough to make me want to try.
I dont need an OKAY to let go. I really dont. I feel like I have done my best. I will not have regrets. My regrets would only be "maybe I should have stayed for the kids", because I sincerely believe if I could do that, he would be fine with it. If that would be right or wrong is another issue. You see,I am thinking of others like my parents, his dad more than I should maybe. But that is the way I am.
I sent him the letter, he came over today without having read it. We spent the day, I started the fireplace, the kids had fun. He talked to me hardly 15 sentences (10 of them about the kids) and left after 5-6 hours. I SHOULD treat him more lovingly, but I cant. I cant find in me anymore. I have no more. I need him to "spend some energy" in us. I cant get this off the ground on my own. Maybe I could 6 months ago. I dont know. I am sure I had more anger in me back then because I feel it coming out in waves even now. Sometimes it is about now, sometimes it is about the last year.
For many of our years together I used to "justify" his attitude with "H is a man that feels alot but cant show it, he is sensitive, he is a good person, he has good intentions, I KNOW things without him showing them to me". I lost that now. After what happened I NEED to feel and see. He cant figure that out. He wants me to take him "for granted" in the good way again, based on previous "good behaviour". He wants me to erase the last year. I HONESTLY CANT do that. I am too hurt to just forget. Maybe that is my mistake. I refuse to just believe, regain my faith to him UNTIL -if ever- he prooves himself to me. He wants it the other way around. That is why we are stuck. A couple of times I tried. It didnt work out. In seconds I had huge questionmarks appearing in my head, fear, disbelief, mistrust. I have been desperately asking for his help. He cant see that. Still, I am not yet ready to say it is over. K
Oh and one last: I refuse to solve things by ignoring them. He wants us to ignore things hoping the negative feelings will fade. I am 100% sure if I do that, a year from now I will be posting here again about our divorce... I need to TALK things out. He is not a good "talker". He needs to put effort to it, he refuses to do so.
Reading back what I read I realised it it a bit confusing. Because I am too. I will look into MC again tomorrow. Maybe go back to my IC and ask her to suggest someone to me, she knows the whole story....
Reading back what I read I realized it it a bit confusing. Because I am too. I will look into MC again tomorrow. Maybe go back to my IC and ask her to suggest someone to me, she knows the whole story....
That's a solution based decision Kalni and exactly the direction you need to head, IMO. I appreciate your response and understand it. I am simply amazed that you have stood through the toughness of all of this.
I also understand how hard it is to want your family to remain intact. It is difficult to make decisions that you know could impact your kids and goes against your very nature to protect them. Hence the statement that you must exhaust every opportunity you need to to secure yourself in your decision. Marriage counseling is a solid move in that direction.......
(((Maria))) I'm glad to hear you say it isn't over. I remember months ago to you seemed to be saying that. Your hanging in there gives me a little hope. Today I was looking over information about filing and custody. Not what I want to do, but it is feeling more and more like what I need to do.
R 23 years M 20 years Bomb June 2007 S Oct 2007 Ds 11 & 16 Ds and I moved out Aug. 2008
