Quote: Hmmm...I hope you didn't misconstrue my post, as I really wasn't implying that you were not "getting a life." I was simply prefacing my later statement. Sorry...
no problem was more just my own little rant and not so much to do with your "get a life" comment...
Quote: You know, I have two thoughts on this (total speculation): 1) Either he only did have an EA, and thus, he doesn't feel like he really did anything wrong (as we know with men it's the physical part). Even my W has downplayed EAs...much to my disagreement. So, he likely doesn't feel like he has to atone for very much here... 2) He did have a PA and feels so guilty about it that he doesn't want to talk about it, can't deal with it, afraid it will set the two of you back, and is afraid that you would D him as a result. Given your "fiery attitude," could he have the impression that you'd D him if it was physical?
sure it's possible that it wasn't a pa...but I do find it harder and harder to believe. I told him upon his return that I wouldn't d him simply because it was a pa...told him that part of me was assuming it to be a pa and I was still open to him comming home so what should that show him? also stated to him that if it was a pa and he doesn't tell me, eventually the guilt will be so much that he will either have to tell me or leave and telling later rather than sooner will not fair to well on either of our behalfs.
in any case...he still denies a pa.
Quote: Yes, it's still insecurity. I would say that he likely interprets what you're saying as a judgement...and thus, feels like he needs to defend himself or "prove" you wrong.
jethro, he does this even when my statements are about MY feelings...my feelings are typically related (by him) to either...somone I talked to, something I read, or it must be that time of month. It is very insulting and I've told him so..he doesn't hear it though...it's that rather self rightous part of him.
"are you staying at the house while he's there with her?"
LL, Are you NUTS or do you think I am?????? She has turned into the wicked witch, but there is no way she would dare bring him around me. They have been staying in hotels with my money, that's bad enough. And I've made it clear to him that if he wants to see his next birthday, he better not come within seeing distance of me. I had the unfortunate opportunity of talking to him ONCE. I asked him he felt about himself for destroying a family. He said he felt pretty damn good about it and hoped we could be friends. I told him I don't associate with scum and he and my wife were both going to hell. He said not for a while, and I told him it might be sooner than he thought because I was going to kill his fu***** a$$. I calmed down after spending two days in jail, and now have a criminal attorney as well as a D lawyer! This is really starting to be fun now! And I finally took your advice, and quit paying ALL her bills. I dropped her from my will, life insurance, auto insurance, and health insurance. I got chewed out bad by my attorney, her attorney and the mediator, and had to reinstate her on the health insurance until the D is final! Fun, Fun, Fun!
Quote: jethro, he does this even when my statements are about MY feelings...my feelings are typically related (by him) to either...somone I talked to, something I read, or it must be that time of month. It is very insulting and I've told him so..he doesn't hear it though...it's that rather self rightous part of him.
I would still argue that he interprets YOUR feelings are a result of him NOT doing something RIGHT. Thus, he needs to underplay how you are feeling so he can feel better about himself. It's not right, it's not validating, and yes, it's crappy. It's all about ego, LL. Much of our views, impressions, fears, and assumptions are driven by ego. He's no different.
anyone here who doesn't think they're a tad nuts is simply in denial. sorry that w is being such a creep..hey how bout this one...you get to kick og's butt and I'll take care of the w...I'll be nice...just a rather strong talkin' too is all. or better yet we can both go kick om's butt...you can do the physical part and I'll just rant at him like I do everyone else.
Quote: The challenge is to make him realize this...
he did seem to realize and even admit to a bit of "arrogance"...what ways might you suggest I help him to realize what he is doing in communicating this way? it seems at times perhaps my direct aproach to things is a tad to direct for some.
HA HA LL, I'm sure your ranting will drive him nuts and I won't have to hurt him! THANKS! I wish someone could talk some sense into my wife, but I'm afraid she is too far gone! I'll give your her e-mail address and cell phone # and you can pretend she is the OW!
PS: You can rant all you want, and so can my next wife! And I've missed all of you guys too, but I'm trying to heal on my own! I think it will make me stronger! Besides, I'm over it! (at least I think I am )
Quoting TonyP: HA HA LL, I'm sure your ranting will drive him nuts and I won't have to hurt him! THANKS! I wish someone could talk some sense into my wife, but I'm afraid she is too far gone! I'll give your her e-mail address and cell phone # and you can pretend she is the OW! did I tell you that at one point I actually made ow cry? it was so fun....I just kept repeating the words that made her cry...a pathetic typical breed they are...there is always something that will get to them, and fyi...she didn't care much about what she was participating in either..her response most often was "don't you want to be happy?" or the oh so original "we all just married the wrong people"
PS: You can rant all you want, and so can my next wife! And I've missed all of you guys too, but I'm trying to heal on my own! I think it will make me stronger! Besides, I'm over it! (at least I think I am ) I'm over it...no wait I'm not...no yes I am...tony sad to say it is not something we'll ever be "over" we'll just get better at dealing with it...and whether you come here or not...in the end it's still up to you to heal on your own...comming here just let's you know there are others in the world who feel the same as you.
First let me say that it would drive me NUTS if my H were undermining my ideas, dismissing my thoughts and feelings in such a manner!!!
That is arrogant, pompous, belittling, and a whole host of other nasty sentiments!!!
However, I think that beneath most arrogance is FEAR. Fear of being wrong, fear of having to reveal oneself, fear of allowing someone else to have a valid point that may conflict with one's own fragile ego.
Yes, LL the most arrogant, narcissistic people are usually hiding insecurities and low self esteem.
When someone is confident in themselves, in their views, they have NO REASON to belittle another person's view in such a manner.
Does HE realize this...I'd bet NOT....it just "works" for him to dismiss your feelings/views in this way. If it's just "junk from other sources" then it's not really valid and he doesn't have to give it due consideration!!!
So what to do about it?
Well I know that CJ has shown me the light a fair bit in pointing out when my comments are dismissive (not in the same manner, but still).
Would that work with your H? Not so sure, as I don't think he has a lot of insight into this.
How about spelling out to him, maybe in a letter? How his dismissals make you feel? I know you've probably already TOLD him this lots of times, but perhaps NOW he might be more willing to hear and validate you?
Reminding him of this tendency of his will open the topic and perhaps allow you to start calling him on it when it happens. He's probably not nearly as aware of this as you are!
Quote: what ways might you suggest I help him to realize what he is doing in communicating this way?
Unfortunately, I don't have any good suggestions. How do you coax someone into truly examining themselves and their motivations? It usually takes something rather drastic to "force" this change...kind of like our Ses telling us to take a hike. Thing is, one has to be "open" to hearing this stuff and I don't get the impression your H is in a place to do so.
Has he ever done any kind of serious self-examination, LL? Perhaps if he has, you can draw on this to support your efforts. Thing is, reading a couple of R books should help, but I know what you're going to say about his response to that...
He's stuck in his ego, LL...like many of us tend to do. Fortunately, many of us here on the BB (through Michele's help) see that our ego drives much of our thoughts, so we work through those things to try and make it so they have less impact on "reality." I know, if you asked me three years ago, whether I needed to change, I'd say that perhaps I was over-stressed, but other than that I'm good. My point is, I wasn't even in a place where I could even think that I wasn't "on top" of things.
I imagine your influence is working, LL, but ultimately it has to come from him. This reminds me of something my W shared with me from a seminar she went to last weekend...which I'm going to paraphrase and adjust to this situation. We understand what it takes to make a M work, and in this knowledge, we try to share our insights with our S. Many times our S is unwilling to "accept" what we have to share. Thing is, the influence may still be there. It's like an assembly line for ketsup...the bottle has to be made, the label put on, the ketsup inserted into the bottle, and the seal put on the bottle. You just might be the label in the process of his self-examination. So, who or what will be the bottle? Who knows...
Like SB said, he is being arrogant. IMHO, intelligence doesn't hold a candle to wisdom. I like to think wisdom comes from knowing that you know very little.
Hi LL, things are slow on the boards and CJ's calzone's are taking longer than anticipated so I checked out "smoochie's" thread.
I just love you girl! Not afraid to ask what many of us think when we read her posts. So....making enemies on the BB, huh?
Seriously though, I have to wonder at her motivation too. I did ask her what kind of warning she gave her H about her unhappiness. Added my own nearly total lack of warning about CJ's unhappiness.
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