actions speak louder than words...so stop waiting for words and start watching for actions.
I was told a long time ago by a friend from the bb when pondering why when I had given h all the reasons for my "unhappiness" with the r, all things that could easily be fixed, all for the most part the same things I'm still complaining about...that instead of my thinking...gee why wouldn't he just do those things and "make things better" instead of leaving...what I was told is this...he was being asked to do them...or "told" to do them...wanted it to be his idea.
so with that thought what must I do? have patience. I am certain that it is pretty clear to h what I want in the way of more quality time and more physical attention...I do notice that when I "give up" and stop "expecting" it, or heck sometimes even stop wanting it...that is when h seems to step up to the plate. So the new plan for LL, contrary to what most may "think" or read into what is going on, is to simply sit back and have some more of that patience crap and give h a chance to meet her needs in his time.
while sitting in the docs waiting room yesterday I over heard some interesting conversation between the waiting patience (funny how people will converse with strangers in such places but rarely do anyplace else) any way here are some of the things that we have all heard or read before but really made me go hmmmmmm, in hearing them yesterday.
let go and let god. patience is key. attitude is everything...if you wake with a bad attitude you're bound to have a bad day.
acceptance- if you can't or don't accept what is you are bound to be ANGRY, RESENTFUL and BITTER.
let's see...LL needs work with patience (I never was a patient one...always poking to see if I had a tan yet). Acceptance...I think it's pretty obvious I haven't yet accepted what has happend and allowed it to be put in the past.
so despite the fact that c session went horribly (to the point where the whole ride home neither of us spoke a word) things seem ok, sure I'd like to find resolution to the arguments that we've had recently but if h is acting upon the points I mentiond (like let's see, he did initiate sex when I got home last night so that's already 2x in one week) does it really have to be mentioned again?
Quoting lostlove: maybe I should get certified in esp rather than ems...that way I can know what the heck h is thinking or trying to communicate...since he doesn't like to use words and I'm tired of trying to read him.
LL
Is this in response to a specific event? Or just a general comment? Is this in response to a specific event? Or just a general comment? mostly a general comment. see other post explaining the "pattern" of argument. this lack of words but leaving me to "read" actions doesn't always allow me to feel resolve with the particular "argument"
Just wondering, Sage
PS What happened at C the other day? well let's see....I figured I'd make mention of the quality time thing...the door was opened by the c for that as he typically starts by asking h how things are going and h rambles on about being busy bla bla bla...c asks what we have been doing with the summer...I get into wanting more qt and feeling a bit slighted that h can't or wont make the time and yet will make the time to go to a football game that keeps him up and out til the wee hours...h finds that whole statement "unfair" and from there the back and forth crapola goes. h saying things like "get over it" in reference to his a and leaving...but in another breath says "it was a point in time that should not have happend it was a mistake" but then asks me the unfair question of "are you happier than you were before?" it is hard for me to answer that objectively and I let h know why...I express to him that yes part of me is much happier than beofore but part of me is not...the part of me that is still dealing with the a, the dishonesty, the abandonment etc. that part of me is not happier at all. so it's not a fair question to ask. I don't really feel like we got anywhere and I expressed that as c was trying to schedule next appointment...I said I didn't want to bother to come back as it seems it does not get us anywhere but in a neg place most of the time (mind you c does make statements like "let's not get into the past" "let's focus on what's going on now" but also realizes that some of what's going on now for me is connected to the a and his leaving) c scheduled an appointment anyway...just incase I change my mind or want to go in alone (don't know if I'll bother) we didn't talk all the way home and then upon ariving home found a ton of mischief caused by son that needed cleaning up (mind you he was home with mil so how theese things occured I don't know) so that just threw me over the edge (they were ridiculous things ie...every egg in my fridge was smashed the kid is 4 for petes sake he knows better) and I told h that I would be leaving him if things didn't change and with that I went out for a ride and to buy more eggs for breakfast. there were no more words but when I went to bed (h was already there) h did move to be closer to me? weirdo? and then the next day called asking about my eye appointment and other stuff "as if" all was well..and even initiated sex when I got home that night after class... weirdo? why not say something anything? it confuses the heck out of me. and THAT is why I'd like esp or mind reading capabilities...because h just doesn't like to use words when they seem most relevant.
oh poe a mere technichality, not all of us have email reply linked to every reply so often we just add our post to the last one...do you not notice that I often seem to post to myself? or did you just think that I was a weirdo? don't answer that one. I would however like you to answer my inquiry? would you have been willing to listen to such audio tapes if your wife had bought them for you? HONESTLY NOW?
As a matter of fact, I did buy Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus. But she was too far gone as a WAW, and I have since bought most of the R tapes.
I did not buy the tapes till she said she was considering leaving, and I did benefit from them. She listen to the Mars/Venus tape, but it was only a start, and she was already an WAW alien.
In fact we did not start counseling till she left. It was non SBT and was useless. She did not know or attempt to find resources beyond her experience and her friends to save our marriage.
Had she had your experience I believe we could have survived.
As a side note, she left me at the 5 year mark, we were bored with each other, we went to counseling and got back together.
Though we did resolve that current problem, she always had a low self esteem. And this would crop up every now and then as some outside source would build her up and then she would fail at it or they would fail her and it would take months for her to regain her confidence.
Her father died when she was 12, and I figure she married me as a father figure. In fact she ask me to marry her. Well in her present job, she finally gain the self confidence she was looking for.
And the dynamics change, and I did not realize it. As I tended to be the dominate partner. She became dissatisfied and I was clueless most of the time.
So to answer your question, I did buy and listen to a tape, but I had too little information too late.
The funny thing is I have become the person my XW wanted me to be. My current LF is as verse as me on this R stuff, and we have avoided a lot of conflict.
Quote: ok poe I'll look into the tapes but honestly...would you have read anything or listened to anything BEFORE w actually left/ got involved w om?
Well, let me answer that question with an emphatic YES! When my W dropped the bomb, the "I don't think that I love you anymore", that was when I got DB and got to work. That was my eye-opener. It was another 2 1/2 months before I found out about the OG. So, no, it doesn't necessarily take leaving or having an A to wake him up.
BUT, you can't constantly be threatening to leave, thus sending the message that whatever you say when you are frustrated should be taken in a grain of salt. My W did that a few times earlier in our M, screaming out in the middle of an argument, "I WANT A DIVORCE". I hated when she did this, to know that she would even think about that as an option, and that scared me a little. But I knew that she was mainly just frustrated and angry, not serious. It also angered me because I thought she used it as a way to get her way, to win the argument, and that just made me want to resist.
When she said "I don't think that I love you anymore", though, we weren't arguing (and hadn't, recently). It came seemingly out of the blue while we were in bed one night. I knew that she was dead serious and that THIS was something I had to pay attention to.
So what I'm trying to say is this. If you ever really get to the point where can't take it anymore and you're ready to leave, you need to tell him in a quiet moment, far removed from some recent argument or hurt. He won't be able to "hear" you if he thinks it's just another one of LL's frustrated rants. It can't be effective if it happens when you get frustrated about a bunch of broken eggs (I know, it was more than just that), or even if you're angry about something more substantive. It needs to happen when it's clear that the discussion is about the whole R, not just about some recent events.
Quote: needs work with patience (I never was a patient one...always poking to see if I had a tan yet). Acceptance...I think it's pretty obvious I haven't yet accepted what has happend and allowed it to be put in the past.
Ahhh!!! That patience cr@p again! Seems to crop up time and time again, does it not? It is my humble opinion that we DBers can put our S's indiscretions in the past if they are willing to admit to their wrongdoing and work on the R in a positive way...in the present. I know, for me, it becomes ever more difficult to put things in the past when my W continues the patterns that led to the "downfall" to begin with. So, this brings us to expectations. And, yes, in the current stage of our M, I think we can have reasonable expectations.
I believe, LL, that if your H was effectively communicating with you and REALLY working on improving your R, then I believe you'd be able to let the past go more quickly. You likely already realize this, and as such, I'm curious as to whether you have specifically communicated this to your H?
Contrary to that, if our Ses really are working on things and we continue to get stuck in the past, then it's our own problem (and yes, in some ways I'm referring to myself).
Thus, I don't think you should beat yourself up too much for not letting things go. It takes two to tango.
"It is my humble opinion that we DBers can put our S's indiscretions in the past if they are willing to admit to their wrongdoing and work on the R in a positive way...in the present."
This sounds great in theory, but from what I've seen, you could be waiting a looong time to hear them admit to their wrongdoings in words. You can easily get stuck in another one of those cheeseless tunnels.
What I've seen work best is in "cheerleading", as described in DR Step #5, under the "cookbook of marriage saving strategies". Basically, catching them doing things right, and letting them know about it. This does a couple of things.
First of all, you are reinforcing positive behaviours. You are "training" them, in a manner of speaking, on some of the things that help to make you happy. In showing them that you are really appreciating their efforts, they are more likely to repeat these actions and behaviours, and may be willing to experiment with some more. You aren't exactly "telling them" what to do, or making any demands on them. Doing these things becomes more of their idea.
Another thing that this can do is help to remind YOU that, even though the two of you may have different ideas of what paths to take, that maybe you both really do share the same idea of what your final destination is.
ALSO, you're not just leaving things in the hands of fate, exhausting your patience while waiting for them to change. You're taking some action to help create some small changes, which can lead to bigger and better ones.
"It takes two to tango."
This may be true, but it does take one person to take the lead. Otherwise, you'll end up with two people standing still on the dance floor, just listening to the band.
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
Quoting lostlove: So the new plan for LL, contrary to what most may "think" or read into what is going on, is to simply sit back and have some more of that patience crap and give h a chance to meet her needs in his time.
You're probably gonna do this but it bears repeating...while you're being patient ("patience crap" huh??? ) acknowledging h for all the stuff that he IS doing (even if it may not fall under your "LL") is an excellent way to expedite the process.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Quoting lostlove: So the new plan for LL, contrary to what most may "think" or read into what is going on, is to simply sit back and have some more of that patience crap and give h a chance to meet her needs in his time.
You're probably gonna do this but it bears repeating...while you're being patient ("patience crap" huh??? ) acknowledging h for all the stuff that he IS doing (even if it may not fall under your "LL") is an excellent way to expedite the process.
Sage
been doing that all along sage...all along. thanking him for cleaning up the table. thanking him for anything that he does no matter how small it may seem. heck I even thank him for hugs and the occassion when he does initiate more. I thank him for calling just to say hello. I thank him indirectly for taking such great care of the yard by telling him how great it looks. I compliment him as often as I can (but must admit that I've let up a bit on that becuase he constantly told me I was biased or just plain nuts for thinking he was handsome or smelled good) when he goes on an appointment for a prospective job I wish him luck and ask how it went afterwards. when he "complains" about a customer or employee "issue" I at a later time ask how it's going.
not saying I'm doing it all and doing it all right...but I really think that a big part of the problem here is that I am too vested in the r...the "family" the m and need to be a bit more selfish. I find that when I do (an sadly it's typically as a result of an argument or a tension that makes me pull away) distance myself a bit and do more of my own thing h seems a bit more interested.
another thing to look forward to is the winter..let's all hope that the fact that it rained so much will mean that it wont snow a whole lot and h will be around more.
) acknowledging h for all the stuff that he IS doing (even if it may not fall under your "LL") is an excellent way to expedite the process.