am I just an eternal pessimist?

[eskb]

LL,

ok the other stupid occurance...my trying to initiate while h was watching footbal...the only thing I can say about this one is that I will never understand men and their damn football

You initiated during football? What the HELL is wrong with you? We've been waiting 7 months for football season, it's finally here, and NOW you're initiating?

Well, I'm mostly just kidding, of course, although I do understand somewhat your H's response. My W has an internal buzzer that goes off precisely 2 minutes before the end of a close game that let's her know that it's time to insist that I immediately do some minimally important errand for her. It's simply uncanny.

Actually, though, my 7yo son was conceived during halftime of the Super Bowl (something I'm strangely sort of proud of), so I have a good mental connection between watching football and sex.

perhaps if I don't want to feel resentment when h declines or puts off (I am assuming from his initial reaction that he would have just waited the 4min till have time to respond) then when I'm in the middle of something I need to keep doing what I'm doing and not allow him to divert my attention...why should what I'm doing be considered less important than his football.

Wait a sec...he didn't actually decline, he only requested that you wait a little bit? Not totally unreasonable, is it? In his mind, he could have his cake (watch football til halftime) and eat it too (uh, so to speak), if only you'd kindly wait a few minutes. You're being oversensitive to rejection is what caused the problem, not his request for a slight delay.

I have the same problem sometimes dealing with my W on this. With her, the issue is sleep. If I initiate in the morning (even if she's already gotten 8 or 9 hours), she sometimes would prefer another 20 minutes of sleep, acting as if the 20 minutes is going to make or break her whole day. Irritating, because it sometimes means only getting a quickie, when I'd like it to be more relaxed, and it sometimes delays my getting up and getting on with the day, but I've found that if I just wait a bit, she eventually wakes up and is usually much more open to my advances. It doesn't feel good that she can prioritize a little extra sleep over having sex with me, and I wish it were different, but really, I shouldn't take it so personally. In her eyes, there's no reason why she can't do both, sleep more now, and have sex later. It's not a rejection of me, it's a rejection of what she sees as my unreasonable request.

In your case, how much better would your day have gone if you had just decided not to let your feelings be hurt and given him the gift of a few extra minutes of football watching?

That said, it IS hard not to take it personally. I'm glad you and he were able to have a good Sunday and that he made it up to you in the end.

he was hesitant to initate but did so, asked if it was ok...I let him know I was still a little angry...h's responded with " maybe in a little while you wont" found that a tad silly as if sex is the solve all, but I suppose he was trying to give me what I wanted so I tried to think of it that way.

Personally, I think that when the problem is his rejection of your initiating, the single best solution is HIS initiating. Really, what would've been better?

Brian

[lostlove]

: Would you say your H's LL was always "acts of service?"

not having known it before...YES it was always acts of service and giving gifts...
but things just seemed to balance a tad better back then.

LL

[jethro]

but things just seemed to balance a tad better back then.

Why?

I don't know, but although I think my W's LL is "acts of service" (AOS), I'm not entirely sure that it used to be. Or...maybe it was, but we were not M'd, so who'd know since we didn't have a home together...a home that requires lots of work.

In a new R, is someone's LL AOS? Perhaps it's buried under the surface, as that's certainly not the focus in a new R. But where does their focus on more of the physical aspects become lost? Is it just the newness of everything that leads our Ses to provide more physical touch than they would otherwise? Likely...

So then, how do we recapture what we had both when our R was new, and when our Ses first decided to "come home?" I, like you, am frustrated that my W is not exhibiting the same "intensity" as she was right after she chose to give us a second chance. It's gotta be in there! Perhaps it was the joy of having the tremendous relief of us not telling them to got to he!!.

Sorry for the rambling...I'm just trying to figure this junk out...

jethro

[lostlove]

You initiated during football? What the HELL is wrong with you? We've been waiting 7 months for football season, it's finally here, and NOW you're initiating?

first of all it was a PRE SEASON GAME!!! I know better than to even try to say boo to him during the ACTUAL season. as far as the NOW YOU'RE INITIATING...heck I've been turned down for sleep, for the news, for any numerous number of reasons...but to be turned down when I actually made that extra attempt of getting all gussied up for it was down right humiliating.

Wait a sec...he didn't actually decline, he only requested that you wait a little bit? Not totally unreasonable, is it? In his mind, he could have his cake (watch football til halftime) and eat it too (uh, so to speak), if only you'd kindly wait a few minutes. You're being oversensitive to rejection is what caused the problem, not his request for a slight delay.

h did not say "give me a few minutes till this quarter ends" he simply said.."you've got my attention, I'm watching the game" I didn't feel inclined to sit there for another 5 min (or longer cause as we all know with football just cause the clock says 4:46 doesn't mean actually 4:46 it could mean 15 min or longer) plus who knows with h...he has inored such things in the past as well...ie me sitting in front of the fire place in nothing but a thong.

ersonally, I think that when the problem is his rejection of your initiating, the single best solution is HIS initiating. Really, what would've been better?

for him to at some point in the day to have said something like "I'm sorry for how things went last night"
I never knew that pre season games meant anything to him...he is a season ticket holder and more often than not doesn't bother to even go to the pre season games as they are just that pre season. Plus it still falls into the same line of something else is more important than me...I don't do that to him...and perhaps that is my fault and not his...it seems that no matter what I'm doing...he thinks nothing of pulling me away from it. but then again he doesn't seem to be as bothered when and if I do decline (trust me it doesn't happen often enough for me to decline) he simply says ok and off to bed he goes and makes an attempt the next night at wich time I inevitably give in. (as if it's giving in)

LL

LL

[Jamesjohn]

just confused I guess...wishing things were more like they were when h first started to come around...

Things really did seem to be great then, didn't they?

What were your favorite parts of what was going on back then? What do you think that you were doing differently at that time that may have helped to create it?

He seems to have fallen back into some old patterns from before. Have you fallen back into any old ones? How do you think that he would answer this?

I don't have any specific things in mind, LL, just throwing out some food for thought here.

[eskb]

first of all it was a PRE SEASON GAME!!!

I was kidding, LL. Actually, I agree with you. It should not have been that important to him. And you had gotten all gussied up for him? Guess I must have missed that in your earlier post. Well, if it's anything like "sitting in front of the fireplace in nothing but a thong", well, you wouldn't have to ask ME twice, that's for sure. OK, you're right. It was worse than I thought. It's humiliating to put yourself out there, only to be rejected.

for him to at some point in the day to have said something like "I'm sorry for how things went last night"
I never knew that pre season games meant anything to him...he is a season ticket holder and more often than not doesn't bother to even go to the pre season games as they are just that pre season. Plus it still falls into the same line of something else is more important than me...I don't do that to him...and perhaps that is my fault and not his...it seems that no matter what I'm doing...he thinks nothing of pulling me away from it. but then again he doesn't seem to be as bothered when and if I do decline (trust me it doesn't happen often enough for me to decline) he simply says ok and off to bed he goes and makes an attempt the next night at wich time I inevitably give in. (as if it's giving in)

Again, stuff I can definitely relate to (although it's been so long since I rejected my W's advances that I'm not sure how she'd react now). But back to this case, I still think your H is "apologizing" in his own way and trying to make it up to you in your language. I don't think he realizes even now just how deeply such rejection cuts you, since he doesn't think of what he's doing in those terms (he just sees it as a "let's wait until a little later" thing). True, words plus action would be better, but if you have to choose, which form of apology would you prefer: words only, or action (i.e., his initiating) only?

Brian

[lostlove]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
but things just seemed to balance a tad better back then.

Why? for perhaps many reasons, some you've hit upon and others that we could sit and ponder but would we really get anywhere?

I don't know, but although I think my W's LL is "acts of service" (AOS), I'm not entirely sure that it used to be. Or...maybe it was, but we were not M'd, so who'd know since we didn't have a home together...a home that requires lots of work.
exactly, plus there's always the fact that qt was any time you went to visit eachother, maybe it wasn't always spent doing what you wanted to do but credit was given for the time...now that they are expected to be there cause heck they live there it isn't (or doesn't seem) to meet the qt criteria unless it's actually qt. and actually that just isn't right is it...a light just went on in my mind...one of the very few people that h spoke to about ow during our seperation is a shared friend...in passing on the info about her what h is quoted as having said is "I can be myself around her" hmmmmmm? are we not letting our spouses be themselves around us...wanting and needing what we want and need? if we stop wanting and needing will they then have the desire they had for the op? hmmmmm?
In a new R, is someone's LL AOS? AOS?? Perhaps it's buried under the surface, as that's certainly not the focus in a new R. But where does their focus on more of the physical aspects become lost? with the comfort, with knowing that their partner isn't going anywhere..ever notice that you can tell newley weds from couples that have been together for a while? there is a huge difference in the amount of pdas. Is it just the newness of everything that leads our Ses to provide more physical touch than they would otherwise? possibly or perhaps or maybe these are ld people...in ssm I recall something about the ld at first upon entering a r (or in our cases re entering) they seem like they are hd only to then return to their ld ways. Likely...

So then, how do we recapture what we had both when our R was new, and when our Ses first decided to "come home?" I, like you, am frustrated that my W is not exhibiting the same "intensity" as she was right after she chose to give us a second chance. It's gotta be in there! Perhaps it was the joy of having the tremendous relief of us not telling them to got to he!!. let me ask you this, do you still get a chill each and every time your w touches you? the same chill you got when w first touched you? do you still get that same feeling you did when w first decided she didn't want d and stopped seeing om? I'd tend to doubt it. so then how can we expect their "intensity" to stay there always...sure it comes and goes...same as our own feelings and reactions come and go.

Sorry for the rambling...I'm just trying to figure this junk out... noone should ever feel like they have to appologize for rambling to me the queen of rambling.

jethro

---

LL

[Jamesjohn]

Also, don't neglect or discount any positives that have come out of what you've done with the EMT classes. Take stock of some of the benefits that it reaps.

Doing this has probably shifted his image of you a bit. You've been wanting him to see you beyond your roles as wife and mother, and doing things like this could help cause that change to happen. From both sides of the coin. Makes it a win/win situation for you.

If you "think" that you're meeting resistance regarding this, and it's not all falling into place like you think it "should", don't let that stop you. Maybe the less time you make available for him because of doing these types of things, the more time he might "make" for the two of you when there's a chance?

[jethro]

h is quoted as having said is "I can be myself around her" hmmmmmm?

Eh...that sounds like WAS-speak and nothing more, really. My W would have likely said the same thing because when she was at the bar acting inappropriately, he wouldn't question her behavior, as he was a willing participant! Beer goggles, love goggles, smitten goggles, whatever...they're all false.

AOS??

Acts of Service...

possibly or perhaps or maybe these are ld people...in ssm I recall something about the ld at first upon entering a r (or in our cases re entering) they seem like they are hd only to then return to their ld ways.

I kind of get this, but what's HD?

do you still get a chill each and every time your w touches you?

Well...actually...sometimes... Typically, it's a warm feeling in my heart. Jeez...I sound like sap!

Don't know, LL...

jethro

[lostlove]

Doing this has probably shifted his image of you a bit. You've been wanting him to see you beyond your roles as wife and mother, and doing things like this could help cause that change to happen. From both sides of the coin. Makes it a win/win situation for you. to be certain it will in the end do a great deal for me...a sense of purpose in the town (provided I actually get to go on any calls, we are a volunteer town) I know that h does respect me for doing it but it also doesn't seem like I get much props for it becuase well as said by him "I knew you could do it" it's not that he thinks I'm incapable of doing anything other than being wife and mom..I have only been wife and/or mom for 6 years while we have been "together" for almost 15, thing is he "knows" I'm capable of anything I put my mind to...an I'm proud of you would be nice to hear from him though.
funny you should use the word "coin" just makes me think of a statement regarding the fact that I will be doing this (emt) as a volunteer for the town...h made the statemtent "and maybe eventually you'll get paid for it" now that could be taken many ways...but I take it as he'd like for me to bring in some cash too...as before son was born I worked full time and turned my check over to him.

If you "think" that you're meeting resistance regarding this, and it's not all falling into place like you think it "should", don't let that stop you. Maybe the less time you make available for him because of doing these types of things, the more time he might "make" for the two of you when there's a chance? and of course the eternal pesimest that I am says...key phrase..."when there's a chance" it's always been "when there's a chance...when I feel it should be "I MAKE the time because I recognize the importance of time" I will continue to do for me more and more as the kids grow up and enable me to...son starts pre school in a few weeks...that's three mornings a week that he will be in school...I plan to get back the gym (dd can play in the day care at the gym) and while the weathers nice go roller bladding with dd (she didn't seem to mind as much as son who after 5 min wanted to go home)

LL