I should add to all this how things are going today....
h has called several times... h volunteered to return a damaged pool vacuum and pick up some more supplies. h volunteered to pick up some new computer software. h admitted to doing these things because he 1. wanted to get it done 2. because I've got enough to do and it isn't easy going from store to store with the kids. in running these errands h has called at least 5 times. when I offered to get the software his response was...no this way when I get home we can all stay home. h even offered to finish vacuuming the pool when he gets home.
If I didn't know better, I'd say you were listing a few positives about your H there. Nah, couldn't be. I don't know if I'd call them positives...more like squirmings...he seems to know he's up sh!ts creek...what he doesn't seem to know is that he's using the wrong paddle leaving the one that will get him back to clear water resting on the floor of the boat.
LL, I've had some of the same thoughts regarding nice things that my W does that she also did during her A, and therefore discounting their value. For example, there were occasions in which my W wanted to go out with "the girls" (OG, naturally), and would approach me in the nicest, sweetest way to get my concurrence. I gave in every time, even though it meant never going out myself, and babysitting after a long week of work. Now, when my W asks for my concurrence on something, I would almost rather she be rude and demanding - the nice, sweet way reminds a lot of the old A days. But really, it's not fair to mentally penalize her whether she's sweet or rude, is it? I can't have it both ways. In your case, you're penalizing your H whether he calls in the morning or not, whether he kisses you goodbye or not. That's not fair, is it? I don't know if I'm personalizing it or simply not looking at it as any type of step closer to the type of r I want...it's the stuff that was there all along...even in the bad days..so is it really a positive? not saying they are negatives mind you simply not giving them any extra credit.
I also think you're being a little unfair about the flowers. My youngest boy likes giving my W flowers. On a few occasions I've picked up some flowers and let him give them to her. I figured it made him happy, and since she obviously knew who actually bought them, I would receive "credit" for giving them, even if I never said anything further. I thanked both son and h...I thanked h several times..ok maybe I did get a little bratty and say "I should get sick more often" but I did give the credit to HIM for them...I just wonder though why h always makes them be from son? son picks flowers for me himself from the yard
I guess my point is that you are currently looking for reasons to minimize everything he does, rather than looking to "catch him" doing nice things. Yes, the little things he's doing may not seem like much, and he could be doing them as a cover, or without thought, but maybe you should consider the alternative - that these things are his little ways of showing love. He probably doesn't remember that he did those things during the A, doesn't realize the hypocrisy, ah but you realize the hypocracy don't you? so cut him a little slack. I'm sure my W has absolutely no idea that her sweet kisses and warm goodbyes can sometimes send shivers up my spine.
Back to sex (for me, it's always back to sex!). You said that your H read a part of DR, but that you'd given up with that since he didn't get very far with it. Hey, at least he was open to it a little. I still haven't gotten my W to read page 1 of "After the Affair" or DR. The book of Michele's I was referring to was "The Sex Starved Marriage". Wouldn't it be worth at least seeing if you could get him to read it? No harm in asking, right? Maybe you could get him to read chapter 1, and continue if he found it interesting. I've already mentioned the book to him a few times...he's not interested.
I agree with others here. Your H sounds like a basically nice guy who is mostly (and and maybe willingly elaborate willingly ) blind to your unhappiness, but who wants your M to work and wants you to be happy. Don't give up just yet. how many threads do I have? ok stop laughing now...there have been many times that it would apear to others that LL's gone off the deep end and is a waw "without legs as charcoal put it" I've seen divorce...I don't like it...not for the kids and more importantly not for either party involved, it's going to take a lot for me to truly quit...a full waw "alien" I will never be.
Brian
wanna know what bugs me the most? too bad I'm gonna tell ya anyway! before the seperation, after the disclosure of ow, things were great...h talked more, we had sex more, we went out at least once a week and most of the time by h's initiating, h would get out the cards and we'd play rummy 500 at least one night a week...until he left! I didn't find db until almost 3 months after he left...then I knew that I should have just kept my mouth shut about ow and enjoyed the new r with h instead of being resentful. But ya know what I found out when h finally came home? that he had still been seeing ow during that time and was lying to me about it!
now I get a h who doesn't have the time or even seem to have the desire to go out with me, doesn't initiate much more qt than let's watch foxnews, intimacy? sure whenever he's in the mood, and ow is supposedly gone.
I agree, he ain't getting it, just ignore him and let him go get his nookie somewhere else.
He is a big boy and can do his own laundry, and get his own meals.
Spend more nights out and let him watch the kids, if he ain't available, just pay the money for a good sitter, he is making enough with all that overtime.
Also start your planning your escape now. Make sure you can attach his wages for CS, and I am sure you can get alimony.
Good luck, I sure you can find a man who wants you and your kids, I know Tony would move there in a minute. What do you think about Florida
Poe
I am just going to assume that you are trying to play devils advocate here poe...cause it would seem to me, if I recall that my h isn't acting much different than you did before you w left you.
Quote: LL, seems to me he's SCREAMING I love you and I'm sorry...only in his OWN language!!! english is a much nicer language why doesn't he speak that one?
Hon, I think he's smelling the coffee already.
I KNOW you need closure on the entire A issue and what it's done to you, LL. I do too, but CJ has made more steps in that direction than your H has.
It's just occurred to me that part of why your H may NOT be "trying as hard" is that really DIDN'T get physical with OW and so from his (genetically) male-biased view...it wasn't "that much" of a betrayal!!! that's a nice thought! wish I could believe it whole heartedly
Now we all know that's nonsense, but it would explain some of his behaviours, no? yes, it would.
SOOO, how have you "been" around him today? the best damn "act as if" you've ever seen! but I'm sure he senses something is up because I've been spending a bit more time at the puter at night and he knows I come here. Is it his own guilt over the argument or him sensing changes in you that is spurring this "acts of service/words of affirmation" spurt? I would hope his guilt (is that bad?) and also I'd attribute his squirming to not knowing what to do about it, sorry might just seem like too easy a solution to him so he's at a loss.
Gotta get outside before the bb lures me in for the rest of the night. yes the bb does have the ability to do that doesn't it.
Hi LL...3 hours in the yard, a nice cool shower...ahhhh!
I love your new digs, and NO, I don't think you're just an eternal pessimist!!!
And even if you feel pessimistic...believe it or not, it's not a life sentence!
I'm not just talking from a "psychological" view, but a personal one. I was just thinking today, LL, how my primary emotions for YEARS pre-bombs were anger, boredom, frustration, and DISAPPOINTMENT .. ...I was constantly disappointed in pretty much everything. My sighs could float a sail boat.
Sure now things get to me sometimes, but that was an awful place to be!!! Is that kind of how you feel???
If so, there IS hope...all I know is I was there, IN this M and I'm NOT there now, and STILL in this M.
I have to say, LL I think it was the meds, the bombs, and the meditation/prayer that turned it around for me. My emotional tilt happened even before CJ started making an effort, but THAT sure helps too!
You still around??? Oh, surely not with the little ones. LL I keep forgetting you have so much mothering to do!!!
Quote: And even if you feel pessimistic...believe it or not, it's not a life sentence!
I'm not just talking from a "psychological" view, but a personal one. I was just thinking today, LL, how my primary emotions for YEARS pre-bombs were anger, boredom, frustration, and DISAPPOINTMENT .. ...I was constantly disappointed in pretty much everything. My sighs could float a sail boat.
Sure now things get to me sometimes, but that was an awful place to be!!! Is that kind of how you feel???
at times yes and it's very disheartening.
Quote: If so, there IS hope...all I know is I was there, IN this M and I'm NOT there now, and STILL in this M.
I know there's hope..I've been out of this funk before...I just can never tell what gets me out and therefore how to stay out...I'll admit that most of the time I let my "downess" effect the way I view h and this m. bad LL?
Quote: I have to say, LL I think it was the meds, the bombs, and the meditation/prayer that turned it around for me. My emotional tilt happened even before CJ started making an effort, but THAT sure helps too!
I don't like meds...I'd rather find another solution if I can...say like regular date nights, regular intimacy, regular conversation...emotional connection rather than just day to day stuff...just to name a few. The bombs? well I'd have to say that for some ridiculous reason I did feel a tad better about myself during the seperation than I do now. weird huh?
ok so maybe I bit off my nose to spite my face...as suspected no appology in the form of words...but yes all the calls etc were an attempt...an h even attempted to initiate intimacy last night...I guess I was still to bratty therefore just couldn't bring myself to give in (as if I'd actually be giving in...I've been waiting two weeks now) well once h got the idea that I wasn't interested (it only got as far as him giving me a back massage while I sat at the puter researching eye stuff) he decided to go up to sleep saying nothing about it...wich is odd because typically his stance is to try to convince me otherwise.
so I don't know...that was probably a bad move on my part...I just didn't want to accept whilst still awaiting some direct appology from him.
of course LL can't keep her mouth shut for long...so this morning (actually about 10 min ago 9:30am) when h called I mentioned that I was not thrilled with the lack of closure regarding his hanging up on me tues (I didn't bother to get into the rest of that argument as I think I get why he was so frusterated...he just wants it in the past and doesn't know how to deal with me) he let me know that he had tried to make up for it..so as we all suspected the calls and extra attention were his attempt...I let him know that I was aware of that and did appreciate it but sometimes a more direct apology would be better. h let me konw that he just didn't know what to do that day..was busy...etc etc...didn't mean to hang up on me (and actually it was more of a I gotta go "click" kinda thing) he realizes it wasn't the best solution he just didn't know what else to do.
so I guess I can put that one to rest...we'll see now what type of reception I get when I come home from class, that is if he is awake. feeling like I should have let it go but it's too late for that now isn't it. cripe!
Quote: I guess my point is that you are currently looking for reasons to minimize everything he does, rather than looking to "catch him" doing nice things. Yes, the little things he's doing may not seem like much, and he could be doing them as a cover, or without thought, but maybe you should consider the alternative - that these things are his little ways of showing love. He probably doesn't remember that he did those things during the A, doesn't realize the hypocrisy, ah but you realize the hypocracy don't you? so cut him a little slack. I'm sure my W has absolutely no idea that her sweet kisses and warm goodbyes can sometimes send shivers up my spine.
Of course you and I do. But we're highly sensitized now. We've gone back and scrutinized, analyzed, and dissected every inch of the past for clues about what the hell was going on, how to interpret it, and how to make sure it never happens again. He hasn't (few in his shoes have). The little things he's doing to show love don't guarantee that he actually does love you - you know that now - but that doesn't mean they're meaningless.
Quote: The book of Michele's I was referring to was "The Sex Starved Marriage". Wouldn't it be worth at least seeing if you could get him to read it? No harm in asking, right? Maybe you could get him to read chapter 1, and continue if he found it interesting. I've already mentioned the book to him a few times...he's not interested.
I'm still thinking there's got to be a way to break through his resistance to hearing you on this subject. Hmmm...
Quoting lostlove: I've seen divorce...I don't like it...not for the kids and more importantly not for either party involved, it's going to take a lot for me to truly quit...a full waw "alien" I will never be.
Well, that's good to hear. I already knew that about you, of course.
Glad to hear you got the phone hang up thing resolved. When something bothers me that much, I usually can't let it go as long as you did - my fuse is shorter. Now if he's halfway receptive tonight, go the other half yourself and get this episode behind you.
Quote: Now if he's halfway receptive tonight, go the other half yourself and get this episode behind you.
ah but you see...I've stopped initiating...being rejected before by him was something I lived with...being rejected by him now is down right humiliating...I'll wait for him. I think.
Quoting lostlove: feeling like I should have let it go but it's too late for that now isn't it. cripe!
I'm not too sure about that, my dear.
As clumsy, awkward, and unproductive as it may have felt, I think that you two had a good little spurt of communication here. Much better than than just holding things inside and letting them fester into resentments, don't you think?
You asked for what you want, and as for what he did, "he realizes it wasn't the best solution he just didn't know what else to do." Now he knows that what he did "didn't work".
It's too late to go back and change just what happened that day, but you know what? I'd place a bet that if a situation like this happens again, things might go just a little bit differently! Maybe not perfectly, but closer towards that direction.
As for when you get home tonight, try to "act as if" you've put this last situation to bed, and expect the evening to go well, and see what happens. Sweep all the eggshells off of the floor so neither of you have to step on them, and start fresh.
JJ
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but I'm sure he senses something is up because I've been spending a bit more time at the puter at night and he knows I come here. Is it his own guilt over the argument or him sensing changes in you that is spurring this "acts of service/words of affirmation" spurt? I would hope his guilt (is that bad?) and also I'd attribute his squirming to not knowing what to do about it, sorry might just seem like too easy a solution to him so he's at a loss. 
...I was constantly disappointed in pretty much everything. My sighs could float a sail boat. 
