Trixi aka "The Pitbull who can't let go"

[NikB]

I am sitting here with a prairie dog snuggling,I have a cute, cozy little house, my pellet stove is keeping me extra toasty, my jeep did FAB in the snow, I have a jigsaw puzzle going on my dining room table..I don't have a DUI to worry about, I don't feel the need to re-live my 20's, I don't have to drink or smoke weed to have fun....and I can look myself in the mirror and know that I have done all that I can (and more) to try to save the marriage.

This is absolutely beautiful! I love the image of you there in your cozy house that you enjoy so much.

And, I like that you're seeing the reality of your H and who/how he is today so clearly too. It's pretty darn hard to do when it's such a sad reality. ((((Trixi))))

I so appreciate your support--I am feeling strong this particular minute; but I know I will have weak moments and lack clear vision.

We'll be here for you!! You know that. And since I've been taking sporadic breaks from the boards - if you need me sometime and I'm not on for a bit, you know how to reach me via email (I think) or via FB which will kick an email to me.

For instance, next Wednesday when I drive SS to rehab, H is coming along. It's probably a 2 hour ride each way. The way there won't be bad because SS will be in the car...the way back..I'm nervous about that. OH! Not that I'll get tricked into a "lets go back to status quo"-more that he will start talking about logistics of D. I don't know if I am ready for that.

Ugh... I wish there was some way to avoid this but I can't think of a good one. Sooo.. knowing that's coming up and it'll be rough maybe we can come up with some ideas? I know when I had situations coming up that I could prepare for it helped me a ton to practice some responses in advance.

First off, distraction! Do everything you can to keep things OFF the topic by having other things to talk about. Bring silly stuff, i.e. those little hand held electronic games. Target has a decent selection and so do most drug stores. This game in particular: http://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Handheld-20-Questions-Game/dp/B000G7YQI4/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t is both maddening and fun! (not necessarily this brand - there are lots of different brands of the same game/concept). I brought Hangman and 20Q and managed to keep us entertained for quite awhile. Your H would have to be willing to do the "game" part but hopefully he'd go for it.

Be prepared with lots of discussion topics that aren't too sensitive in nature... I dunno, politics, celebrity news, whatever you think would get/keep him talking for awhile. Weather only gets you so far..

Now for the tougher stuff - my best advice is really, really work hard at being detached no matter WHAT scenario might come up. I KNOW how hard it will be but try to pretend you're talking to someone whose decisions don't have a direct impact on your life. I think it'll help get you through ANY scenario much, much easier. And if you're serious about the "Game Over" - it ISN'T his decision any longer. You didn't decide to end your M, but you decided to end living in limbo-land.

Incidentally I think you ARE serious about it this time and I hope you can stay strong in that. But even if you AREN'T serious or you start to waffle, I think you need to do your darndest to "act as if" it's Game Over. I would have some short, to the point things ready to say so that you don't get sucked into some big long R talk where you're trying to "convince" him of anything. There's nothing to discuss anymore. He chose to separate, you chose to change your focus to your own life/future and not to live with limbo anymore. Game over.

So, if he does try to bring up D/R/Future stuff, my best suggestion is to be prepared and know exactly what you want to say. Practice saying it in a calm, detached manner if it helps you (it helps me a ton!). It may still not come out exactly as you practice or intend, but it's a whole lot easier to at least get CLOSE to what you want to say if you've prepared. Here are some ideas:

If he talks about...

- D in general: "H I'm not prepared to discuss this right now." (repeat as necessary). Or, "H it's too painful for me to talk about this right now." I'd suggest the more "business like" one if you can do it... but I know you tend to get into the emotional stuff so thought the 2nd one might be more "you." Also, if he's got ANY compassion, the "too painful" should help redirect him.

- Logistics of a D: "That's business and I need time to look into everything. I'm not prepared to discuss this right now."

- Filing / when to file: "H I'm not prepared to discuss this right now" still works. Or, "H this is your D. I won't fight it but I do not intend to file." I borrowed the "your D" from another thread - I really like this because it makes it very clear you're not "owning" the D.

- Turning it around that it was your decision: "I'm sorry you feel that's the case, H. I did not choose to end our M. I chose not to keep my life on hold because of your indecision anymore." Calm, non-accusatory, but clear on where you stand.

- Money or how expensive it'll be "H I'm not prepared..." works again. Another one that worked well for me when my H got ticked and kind of accusatory about something financial was "H when I did XYZ / made XYZ decision it was based on planning for our financial future together. Things have changed." (and if he tries to push further "that's business and I'm not prepared...").

- Still being undecided: BE READY!! I have a feeling you're likely to get this - in the form of "poor me," in the form of taking back control of the decision, in the form of hooking you back in - I think you'll get this. "H I can't continue to keep my life on hold while you make up your mind. I am moving forward with my own life, wherever that may lead." [note: this doesn't close the door completely to a future reconciliation, but it closes the door on the current limbo situation]. You can also use "I'm sorry you feel that way." "That sounds very difficult."

- "I need to focus on me": Don't argue with him. If he says he never got to do it, "I'm sorry you feel that way." "I hope you're able to find your happiness." "I hope this time to focus on yourself helps you."

- Family isn't his priority or family disappointed him: "I'm sorry you feel that way."

- Remaining friends / being "best friends": "I'm sorry H but that won't work for me right now. I can be civil and friendly but I can't/won't be your friend if we're D'd." (incidentally, this one shocked the crap out of my H - to the MC he even admitted this is what got him confused, because he didn't want to lose me as his best friend)

- All the things he'd have to do if you DID reconcile: Don't go there!! It'll only get you stuck right back in limbo-land. I don't know exactly how I'd address it but maybe something vague like "Since that's not where we're at, we'll cross that bridge if we ever come to it." He hasn't even done the work to win you back yet, nevermind what it'll take to reconcile. YES it's great to have all this in mind for yourself, but there is no reason to share it with him right now. The ONLY time I'd share it is 1. he's truly won you back and 2. he's passionate about reconciling.

Also know what you DON'T want to say:

- I need to talk to a L.

- I need to find out what my rights are / what I'm entitled to.

- I know that in our state I should get ________...

Try not to get into ANY financial details, or anything that hints at it. I was blown away a few times by just how quickly H could switch from civil to more furious than I think I've ever seen him when I even MENTIONED these things. It also seems like people tend to get the most generous D settlement "offers" from the WAS early on. The "offers" get less and less generous over time. So, you want to avoid talking about this on the off chance that he offers you more than the law requires when you DO get into financial stuff.

I also wanted to mention, the way your H waffles, I think you should prepare for one more "scenario" so you don't get caught off guard. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he got all snuggly and lovey dovey in the car to hook you back in if he believes you're serious about the "Game Over" this time. And as I mentioned earlier even if you're not 100% sure or you waver some, I think acting "as if" is critical.

The best response to ILY and any other compliments is probably "Thank you" and then change the subject. Not "Well if you love me why can't we figure this out together (and on and on and on)." Nothing more to discuss, remember? It doesn't matter how much he loves you or how beautiful you are or how you're the best thing that's ever happened to him - because the game is over and he chose not to commit to you.

One other thought on the drive:

I would also point out going to a 25yo arrogant, pot smoking, anti-marriage, self centered KID about what to do about his 11 year marriage is idiotic. BUT, since I am not dealing with his BS anymore, I'm not going to call. However, if he happens to be stuck in a car with me for a couple hours on Wednesday- it might come up.

Nooooo!! No more arguing. It doesn't matter if it's idiotic. It's what he's chosen to do. If you're truly letting him go, this doesn't matter anymore. The ONLY reason to bring this up would be to argue with your H that you should work on the M together, right? If you've let go of that - there is no more reason to bring it up.

I actually think that SS ragging on him about being a Dad and saying to stop being immature and selfish, is hurting the sitch more than helping. Seems like H is rebelling against the whole idea and it just galvanizes him to "focus on himself". Oh well.

I TOTALLY agree. He's saying that family isn't his priority and turned out to be a "disappointment" to him and he never got to do "his" thing. Having pressure to be a better Dad definitely isn't going to help anything. But again - if you've truly let go - that doesn't matter anymore, either.

((((Trixi))))

OMG I just realized I spent over an hour on the boards and all of it was typing to you. Sorry this is so long!! I hope some of it helps. I'll reply to your latest post real quick and then I think I need to actually do something productive around the house!

[Trixi]

Hey Nik- Quick heads up- just want to make sure that you saw I posted back re what you were saying about your sitch. (I have often missed posts because of cross-posting.)
now I will go and slowly read your post

Oh, nevermind-- i see that you saw that I posted. LOL

[NikB]

haha - thank you! I know, cross-posting can really mess you up. Thanks for letting me know though!

And, thanks for the reply to the hijack! I DO actually have that "Not Just Friends" book but I haven't read it yet. I bought it during my flurry of "Save the M!" book buying and didn't get to it. Thanks for the reminder - I should get it out. I know this sounds funny but the title of it's kinda off-putting. It makes me crazy because I said it to my H sooooo many times, so every time I see the title I get flashbacks. I need to get over it though because I've heard the book is excellent.

About the room - I know, I think that's funny too. It's like we're in some crazy stand-off about it. Sort of like when he was living here out of his suitcase for weeks and it was this giant elephant in the room. I wasn't going to be the one to bring up him moving home and it was a lonnnng time before he finally did it. We've even had friends and neighbors go "Wow you really did a lot with this room! It's cute!" and you can see that THEY are even kinda scratching their heads. Once when that happened I saw H perk up and start eavesdropping. I think he was hoping I'd finally reveal the room's purpose..haha.

We shall see if the cold dinners and missed lunches works! It's unfortunate it only happens when his friends are here because I think a really flirty or suggestive comment now and again could do the trick too. "I better listen or I might miss out!"

You know, I sometimes wonder if the other person CAN actually "get" how much hurt they inflicted. It is so much easier for them to rationalize that it was "no big deal" and "nothing happened" so that they can live with themselves.

Agreed!! I think that is probably one of the hardest parts about Piecing actually. I'll honestly probably never totally understand my H's pain that led to wanting the separation originally - I get some of it but the depths of it? The darkness and despair on his face when he dropped the bomb? I probably won't. On the flip side as the LBS the pain hits ALL AT ONCE and I think that makes it more severe. Sort of the quick ripping off of the band aid effect.

At some level I think both parties have to let it go that neither one will every totally get what the other person went through. But having empathy for them and allowing them to be hurt/upset and work through it even if you don't get it... that's what's most important to me I think. i.e. in my case I KNOW it is on me to deal with it and stop flinching when the "new text" sound goes off. But I think it's also important for my H not to minimize those feelings or expect me not to have them just because in HIS mind the friendship was "no big deal." That's the tough balance. In your case your H doesn't need to FEEL the pain but he sure needs to not minimize it or turn it around that it's OK because it turned out well in the end. ugh.

In a way, when my H was listing what he considered to be the postivie results from separating, I felt a bit like he was letting himself off the hook and getting a free pass. I mean, obviously, since we are now "broken up" it's a moot point, but I can bet he will be able to "spin" this whole thing as being for the best-regardless of the outcome.
And isn't what we all end up doing? Trying to say that the destruction of our marriage was "for the best" because our spouse is so flawed they couldn't love us properly? Or that the separation was "for the best" because it made us stronger? I guess that's what we have to do so that we can look forward to the future with hope in our hearts...but sometimes I feel like there is something wrong with the whole broad brush strokes of "for the best." KWIM?

I definitely know exactly what you mean! I think the whole "for the best" thinking is really flawed, myself.

I think it's OK to look at the positives that we did get from it and be proud of ourselves for having come through it, surviving, getting stronger. But "for the best" - um no, sorry. I still think you can look forward with hope in your heart and know that there's more than one path to "Happy" without having to say the D was "for the best," though. At least that's how I try to look at it.

[NikB]

OK... off to do laundry and dishes for real now! Hope you have a great rest of your Saturday.

[Trixi]

Not doing as good today. Wish I could be there to "support" him tomorrow when he goes to court. Feel like I am somehow abandoning him. (Ironic, I know, given that he has abandoned me.)

I also wish (preparing to duck for 2x4 swing) that I would have offered to help H get to individual counseling. :ducks: Now, let me explain-- just because he didn't feel the need before, doesn't mean I shouldn't be supportive if he is FINALLY feeling the need now. I think he does need some help- and not just regarding how he feels about me.

But the "I guess I'd lean towards breaking things off" bell has rung, and I have pulled away, so it's too late. I just can't help but wonder how things would have gone if I would have offered to help him get to counseling. And if maybe it would have been a more 'thought out' decision, instead of one that was sort of backed into. KWIM? I have a real mind-f*ck going on right now-- it keeps ringing in my head that he wasn't saying that was what he wanted to do NOW, but if he HAD to decide NOW...UGH UGH UGH. I use this technique with my buyers to learn what they like and don't like and to help them keep the houses straight. I will say about every 3 third house "If you had to pick *today* which one you want of what we have seen so far, which one would you pick?" And I ask it knowing that it is not their ultimate decision. In fact, I don't want it to be their ultimate decision-- I just want to get feedback and help them focus on their priorities as we move forward.

crap.
crap crap crap.

[Sara]

Trixi,

You are a glutton for punishment. Please put a sign on your mirror. "Do not fall in love with selfish a@@holes". You need to move on. Get a life. You H has abrogated all his responsibilities to his family. He is sitting in a sandbox making mudpies, and that's what he wants to do with his life. Go out, look for a man, not a child. This one is addicted to marijuana and probably booze and has regressed to childhood. Look further. You are bound to find something. (And take SS with you.)

[Loving_Life]

Hey Trixi,

I know the up and down feeling, it's normal to feel this way- to doubt and wonder if there was some better way to act or feel, etc. The truth is - no - those kinds of thoughts are an illusion. It's ok to let it out and that's what we're here for. You've done WAY more than you ever could be expected to do for him already and it's not producing results, right? (The cheeseless tunnel) In DB, Michele talks about how it feels very unintuitive/unsupportive to pull away but it is actually the best thing you can do to help your situation if there is a chance for it. Maybe this is a good time to re-read DB/DR to give yourself some perspective that you're really doing all you can for your sitch. Remember, walking away is not "giving up"- it is giving the sitch a last chance if there is possibility for it.

"...it keeps ringing in my head that he wasn't saying that was what he wanted to do NOW, but if he HAD to decide NOW...UGH UGH UGH."

Life is constantly changing. There really is no forever permanent decision on anything in our lives. The door is never closed until you want it to be- so don't be scared of this as a final death sentence or something. Even people who go through with the D sometimes get back together. Right now he chooses against the M and right now, you're done playing the game too. That's all it is. This isn't a forever ending, unless you want it to be. Remember, you are in control here - you're in control of your feelings and your decisions. I hope my outside perspective helps!

[NikB]

(((Trixi)))

I agree with LL, the ups and downs are normal... but I hope you can look at it as part of LETTING GO instead of part of holding on to something that isn't there.

Sara I love this:

Please put a sign on your mirror. "Do not fall in love with selfish a@@holes".

Maybe right below it you can put a couple of other signs:

"Love myself."
"Respect myself."
"Require respect from others."

I think I mentioned this to you before but thought it might be timely to bring it up again. You seem to have a lot of characteristics of ACOA (Adult children of Alcoholics). Have you ever thought about trying out AlAnon? Just to see if it's a good "fit" for you? I know it's been a wonderful help for some people here.

About the IC thing... I honestly think this was a really lame passive-aggressive way to (once again) brush off any responsibility for himself, and also make you feel guilty. Maybe he has recognized that he needs it, but really... he suddenly finally realizes this when "sigh poor me" he can't drive to the place? If he sincerely wanted to go, he would find a way. Heck he didn't even ASK YOU to take him there. He certainly knows by now that you're willing to drive him around.

Work on getting yourself strong before that long drive on Wednesday! Did you read all my ideas on that? I hope some of them help.

(((Trixi)))

Back away from the fire, Trixi. It's going to keep burning you.

[NikB]

walking away is not "giving up"- it is giving the sitch a last chance if there is possibility for it.

Not to mention... the best possible chance of getting off the rollercoaster, regaining control, and saving your sanity!

[Trixi]

Yes, you are all right. Today I had a weak moment and *almost* sent a TM to H to see how the court date went. But decided against it...

Spoke with SS earlier. It continues to get worse over there. H asked SS (while high) how I was doing and SS said "She's still pissed off-what do you think?!" and H was all "oh no. no, not that. I don't want that. Well, we'll have a lot of time to talk on the way back from [city where rehab is]" SS said "Look, if you're just going to say more of the same about how you don't know what you want, but you need to lead your own life, etc, just save your breath. She doesn't need to hear it."
While SS was in the studio, RM comes in, closes the door and starts smoking weed. SS was incensed- even H said "WTF are you doing?!" and RM was like "WTF is your problem?!" to H. At that point, SS had stormed out of the room. H came downstairs and SS said "Don't bother saying anything. I know you're mad at RM right now, but you *know* what the right thing to do is. He should be out of this house. Don't bother to talk to me because it's just words-never action." SS was so mad he was shaking.

SS said to me that he keeps trying to tell himself that H loves him and cares about his sobriety- but it's getting harder and harder to convince himself of that because H's actions don't back up the words.

In the store the other day the three of them were shopping, H says to RM, 'hey how about you pay for the groceries to go towards rent' and RM says (not realizing that SS didn't have both i-pod headphones in his ears) 'why should I do that? I'm not your son." SS challenged him on saying it, RM says "well, I know you only got f'ing pizza rolls, but you'll eat half of the rest of the food." SS pointed out that he was leaving for rehab in two days, so, no in fact, he wouldn't be. And H doesn't even say anything!!!

SS is prepared to try to find a sober-living house for after rehab, or move in with his x-best friend's family. And I did VERY tentatively offer my spare room. SS was gracious and said he would know it's there if he needs it-he wouldn't hold me to anything because he knows my sitch is tight over here. And then he ranted about the other house is very big and it's ridiculous that H can't actually pony up to act like a dad.

I picked up The Traveler's Gift for SS to read in rehab. (He's a voracious reader.)

Nik, I will read and re-read and then read again your ideas on what to say on Wednesday. The good news (if you can call it that) is that I am rapidly losing respect for him. For all of his "Family is so important to me" talk, the way he picks RM over everyone else, the way he won't make any real changes to his lifestyle...and to add insult to injury; talking about how disappointed he is in how our family turned out (and blaming me for it) while he will do nothing NOW to change things-what a jackass. His son is desperately trying to create a relationship with him and he is WAY more concerned about his stupid music and his stupid RM. I wonder if several years down the road he'll be expressing more regrets for not getting priorities straight.
Only then instead of saying "I wish I hadn't focused so much on being successful at work" he'll be saying "I wish I hadn't focused so much on myself and my music."

Yeah, I do need to get into AlAnon or an ACOA group. I think seeing SS be shoved aside has finally brought out that "mama bear" in me and is opening my eyes. I guess I felt like *I* could handle being treated shabbily--but don't freaking treat *my* KID shabbily!