Hi JaY, it is so late that I have to get into bed! I will reply to your post, though. There was a quote by you that has me very concerned:
Quote:
When is it time to go dark with the LRT?
I am not sure why Michelle put the chapter on LRT in her book where she did b/c we are told to go there first if we have a spouse that is threatening to leave.
I think the only reason your wife is even being nice is b/c she thinks she is getting her way about everything. So, when I have a fresher mind than I do at the momenet, we'll talk some more.
Hope you have a good night.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Both our kids will return back to their universities tomorrow. It is hard to believe that tonight might be the last night we spend as a family. I am writing this in the middle of the night. I can't sleep and I am not sure I woke my wife up when I got up to go to my computer in the room below our bedroom. I have heard her move a few times but I think she is still sleeping. I am downloading Michele Marriage Breakthrough Seminar as I type this.
Sometimes we have got along good but other times have been uncomfortable. My kids have been busy with their friends but we were altogether for New Years.
I not sure I can put this to the right time line but here are the highlights.
My wife and I went for a walk several afternoons ago when our kids were gone. I was avoiding any conversations about R/M. My wife to my surprise said that she has no problems with our hikes and going bowling but is having a hard time with the romancing. She confirmed that the affection I have been showing her makes her want to run away. I believe that she does not want to be touched by me at all. I asked about dancing since we have gone to several diner/dances this year. She that is not usually but can be. I have not touched her since.
I have asked her several times at night if she is ok with me holding her. She replies "Its OK" in a quite tone of voice. I guess I don't understand female talk! Why can't she tell me when I am doing something that she is finding uncomfortable? If she could have in the past it may have prevented her from being being traumatized by my last sexual advance (almost 2 years ago?).
She told me she has two major problems in our R now. The first is that she felt traumatized to the point where she thinks that she can never be physical with me again. The second is she is scared of what I will do to our finances. She says she thinks there will be a time when she gets tired of being a nun.
In thinking back when she said that I blew it and we would not ML again I wonder if she was having the internet EA at the time. I think that she was emotionally intimate with her internet friend during the times she was just laying their and letting me ML to her. If that was the case she may have been letting me do it out of guilt and I can see why it could have effected her so much. Once again why did she not let me know she did not want me to continue? In the past when she did not feel up to ML she was able to let me know without having say much if anything at all.
I bring this all up because I think this is what is the root of our R/M problems.
She told me recently about how she felt one night in a class for caretakers she was attending. She said the teacher had has said that the care taker should feel that they are paying back their spouse for all the love the spouse had shown them in the past. She said she felt very sad. I tried to validate but I (ok 2/4s) said something about not speaking the right love language. ( W if you read this someday and you have come out of your MLC/WAW please know that I am feeling that I should do all I can to save our M/R to owe you back for the times when you did love me.)
Sometime before the hike we were having a conversation and she had told me she had read a story about love in National Geographic. She said she knew most of what the article covered. Later I ask her if I could read it and she found the issue for me. Later that night she asked me what I had thought about the article. I said it was mostly about romantic love and not about the other type of love like the love between parents and children. I didn't say it but I think it also left out the love one develops by acting lovingly towards another person.
I am sure I have left stuff out but my download just finished.
I was thinking the other day that when she said romance was making her want to run away was it really my showing her love that was doing it. If she thinks she can't return romance (love) then does that make her feel guilty receiving it?
Hi Jay, I know that when I was in my EA that the last thing I wanted was my H even sitting in the same room with me! I was so unattached to him! Of course, we had not been intimate in years. So, for him to suddenly start showing signs of affection made me behave like a mad dog (almost) ready to escape a cage.
You asked why she would not just come out and tell you when she didn't have a problems before if she didn't want any romance or to ML. I'm not sure if the "before" you speak of is before you were having problems, but if so, she probably had no guilt feelings and had a legimate reason for not wanting to ML at that time. In spite of what she has done, most women (notice, I said most) still do not want to see had badly she can hurt her H. She doesn't really want the romantic moves, but will tolerate you holding her b/c she knows that for most men to tell them "no" would hurt their male ego b/c they see it as rejection even though it was not sex related, it wasstill their personal touch. So, I think lots of women allow things to go as far as they do with their H's b/c they do still care about them, but as they say, they don't feel "in-love" with them. It is when that boundary is continually crossed or pushed until the wife can't take anymore that she starts either acting like a real b*tch or leaves. The guilt of an EA is big time. Mine was all by Internet and I never met him in person. Never kissed his lips or felt his touch. I cannot imagaine what it is like for the person that experiences that and the guilt they suffer.
I know you are going through hell on earth and I hate that for you, so badly. I was not sure what you meant by that quote I refered to in the last post about the LRT and something else. Could you explain it?
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I am trying to decide if I should "go dark" however one does that when you are sleeping in the same bed and she is cooking diner, washing clothes, paying bills, doing taxes, and managing my IRAs.
Tomorrow night I will find out if we will still be in the same bed.
I went back to bed around 6 am this morning and found out that the audio from the Marriage Breakthrough Seminar woke her up around 5:30. I asked her if she had any dreams and she said she had one about celebrating Christmas. She said that was funny because last night was suppose to be what will happen in September. She did not say if I was in her dream and I did not ask.
She asked me what I was listening to and I told her about a few highlights. She did not ask more about them. I was extremely cold and shivering at times. After she asked if I had been downstairs in light clothing and I had informed her I was warm before and that my side of the bed was cold. She offered to switch sides. I said I would warm up my side and I hope I thanked her for the offer.
She got up and I went to sleep and got out of bed around noon. She has seemed much happier since I have stopped touching her. We have been laughing some and she was humming as she cooked diner tonight.
Overall it has been a pleasant day today.
I wonder if I have read more into where she is at today and her only real problem is about physical touch. I believe for here to start solving that problem it will take therapy. I think that would be very hard for her. That is why my gut tells me to be a friend and not to go dark.
One note that I don't think I have mentioned is that on the Tuesday before Christmas I said I was going to deposit a check and to drop off some recycling. That should have taken me an hour and a half. I had checked with everyone and none had any plans for that afternoon. Well I also went to a bookstore and to a movie (Spent like 15$ for a book and a movie). That added another 2 hours to the time I was gone. It wasn't the type of movie my wife and kids normally would go see. Before I got married I use to go to a lot of movies. I figured this could be a short escape and part of GAL. Part of me wanted to see if I would be missed. I enjoyed the movie but was anxious to get home and maybe felt a little guilty for what I had done.
Well my W noticed. Later that night she mentioned something about me not considering the family. I wanted to reply with "and you want to D? How will that affect the family". I did not which was good but I did not say something to validate her feelings.
I need to get back to the family for out last night together this holiday.
I am up early this morning and my W is still in bed. No talking last night in bed other that good night and my saying "sweet dreams". I think I should stop the "sweet dreams" (2x4 if I don't?).
My wife cooked pizza last night and her and my son had a little bit of wine. I don't drink and my daughter teased my son that he had wine breath. My wife was helping my daughter with a scholarship application before and I think for a short time after dinner. I helped my son transfer two albums to MP3s. My wife spent most of the evening sitting on the couch playing on the computer. She did say she will be glad when the person she took over for returns. At times all of us were sitting in the room with her. My kids had packed their laptops and I think they wanted to do something altogether. But we just talked a little with my wife commenting once in a while. I had to go to my laptop in the other room to change album sides.
My kids decided to go watch a DVD in another room. I spent some time in this forum. My W went up to bed without saying good night. I gave her some time and then went up and brushed my teeth. I asked her what book she was reading and then went back downstairs to do the dishes.
Then I said good night to the kids and went up stairs to go to sleep.
I think I missed a chance to jump in and do something with our kids. I was amazed that my wife did not spend time with them if that was indeed the last time our family is going to be together.
I think she thinks they are old enough that a D will not affect them.
I wanted to save this quote from AmyC in S2's first thread.
Originally Posted By: AmyC
I work for an attorney and I have handled divorces of couples married over 25 years.
How devastating for their grandchildren, whose parents have to explain that Grandma and Grandpa stayed together all until they were grown but "then they got a divorce so now we'll have to juggle and go to two places for Christmas and two places every Easter and hey, your birthday parties might be awkward for a few years, too, but what the hell, nothing lasts forever! Sorry kids."
After writing the last post I went back up to bed. My W told me about dreaming about a very bad Hail storm. (Two nights to go before I can sleep well again. I think I had a dream about hearing a Gospel Church Choir). We talked a little and I then my wife asked me if I thought she was having a MLC. That may have been prompted by me asking if she thought I was having one after I had quit one of my jobs. I said I thought she was going through something and had changes some this month.
We did go over our finances and our monthly bills. After words we talked about what a change of lifestyle it would be for me and that would not be nice for her to do that to me. She said she wants to work towards having separate households. We did talk about our R/M and about what she sees as the two greatest problems. I believe she believes neither can be overcome. She said she has tried to teach me to manage money all our M and thinks it is impossible. The other was that she felt scarred as far as physical intimacy. She could not put how into words why it happened and that it had built up for a long time. She gave me some concrete examples of how she reacts when I do certain things. I asked her if she thought she might feel the same way towards someone other than me. She thought that she might.
All in all it was a calm discussion that I felt we both wanted to have. There may be a small door open still but I need to not get my hopes up too high. She also asked why I wanted to stay with her.
She will be leaving for another two week trip in several days. We hope to go skiing before that.
Still don't know if we will be in the same bed tonight.
Hi Jay, well, I don't think a person can successfully go "dark" while living under the same roof. I don't think they can really do it well being S if they are co-parenting. Some claim that that is what they are doing, but I dont' think they really understand the term that Michelle uses in her book. However, you can certainly detach and even drop the rope......and there is a difference in those two terms also. If you drop the rope, you live your life just as you please and act as though you could care less what she does or when, were, or with whom. That's not to say you are ugly, vidictive or any of that behavior. It simply means that you have let her go and that you are moving forward with your life and that you are making plans as if she will no longer be a part of that life. I must tell you that a few people (and there are very few) that get the courage to take this route, but a lot of them have their S to take notice and decide that a D is not what they want after all. But, take heed, b/c this cannot be a bluff! If you decide to drop the rope, it has to be very sincere with you b/c you will have to stick to your guns or it is no good for you. It means that you are ready to move on. You let her go in every sense of the word......even if she is still under the same roof. Yes, it would be difficult b/c you would have to be rid of emotions b/c if you aren't, then she'll see them and that won't work b/c she'll know she still has the upper hand. Also, by getting rid of the emotions comes the great possibility of losing any your love for her. Maybe not all of it, but enough that you are the one that no longer wants to be M to her. That happens to a lot of people that detach so far that they decide they don't feel the same when the wayward spouse wants to come back. So, it is a very serious decision. All of the DB paths are serious, but at least one is neccessary and that is detaching.
Stay in touch.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
