Maybe I should be in piecing part 5?

[Hope4us]

Puppy, You're not saying anything I haven't thought for a long time now. I don't trust her motives either, what ever they are.

But....yesterday, again, there were some interesting events.

At one point, W was on the computer and I looked over and she was on her private email account. The one I've always worried about being her secret way to contact OM. So I got up and walked past her and she didn't close the window, hide anything, etc. I came back to the couch and sat there and looked over a couple times and she was opening emails and not hiding anything. And from the ones I could see, they were just emails from places she'd ordered stuff from, etc.

So, if I look at this from the outside, it seemed to be her way of being open with me. Almost like saying, see, here is my private email account and I have nothing to hide.

The other really interesting thing that happened......We had a really good day. S16 and I went out shopping for a bit. Give a 16 yr old a gift card for Christmas and it burns a hole in his pocket if he doesn't use it.....

But while we were out, I sent W a TM and asked her if she wanted a Latte, to which she replied she did, in a quite excited manner. So I brought one home. And she thanked me warmly for doing so.

We started watching all the football games and enjoying some New Year's cheer. Whole afternoon/evening was just a lot of fun. Good conversations, laughing, joking (even quite a few sexual jokes), etc. About 11:00, I really wanted to stay up and keep enjoying the evening, but I decided it was time to "end the conversation first" like DB suggests. Leave her wanting kind of thing. So I got up and said I was going to bed and told her goodnight and she replied in the most disappointed voice "good night".

So...Two days, one her primping for me, doing the things I like to her hair, wearing perfume and almost putting on a show for me. The next day, really good day with conversation and laughing and joking going on and a disappointed response from W when I went to bed.

Maybe this detaching stuff is working. If she is playing me and has no intention of trying to make us work, I'm ready to move on anyway. But the last couple days have seemed to lead me to believe otherwise.

More good detaching, GALing today and the rest of the weekend. Taking the car to get some minor work done this morning, taking S20 back to school this afternoon and I think I'll spend some time there with him before coming home, so won't be a lot of time together with W today. Not sure about tomorrow, but Sunday I'll be gone most of the day on the nature/birdwatching hike. Something I LOVE, but since we've moved I've not done much as all my birdwatching buddies are 2.5 hours away. Maybe I need to find a local group and begin spending time doing that.

It'll be interesting to see how she is today.

[hopeful4her]

I would be of the mind set that there is nothing to lose.

Why not try some more affection stuff. I would be tempted to ask her back into the bed too, but that's just me. Worked for me once. Didn't change her mindset, but she did come back up until a month before she moved out.

If she declines, then it would seem like ya'll might be in that dreaded 'friend zone' but at least you'll know and you'll have become friends again with the mother of your children. Considering your mindset, that's not a terrible place to be, I think. Not what you worked for, but at least a peaceful, loving relationship.

But then, I feel like Puppy about giving any advice, especially to you, because I have not been successful in my sitch.

[InLikeFlynn]

I would be even more direct....I would sit her down (When she is in a good mood) and ask where are we as a married couple? Do you want to recover the marriage and the relationship? If so we need counseling and you need to move off the couch. Moving into the bedroom doesn't mean you have to have sex thats up to you but I need to know where you stand.

But I am more of a sh@# or get of the pot person!@!!

[Sakaro]

Maybe this detaching stuff is working.

Then why in the world would you want to start doing things differently??

[sandi2]

Well, let the "Ice Virgin" give you the answer......LOL. I think that was probably my nickname in school b/c I wouldn't "put out". Just kidding, I don't want to know what they may have called me behind my back. Anyway, H4H, make her work for it a little more, but don't ignore her completely. Give her a little bit of encouragement. I'll explain as I blow off a little steam here........and no, it's not sexual steam....well, maybe it is....who knows?

Does it have to be sex or nothing at all with you guys? Where is the teasing and the playfulness? Where is the kissing and the nibbling and careesing.....and, well, you know? Why does it have to be "I need to know if this is going to give me intercourse or not, babe? Cause if not, count me out!" It is almost as if some people (not all) have forgotten the basic points of courship and one of the main things in a MR is that the courtship does not stop!!

Even if you sit her down and talk to her at this point in time....it may not be as good of an outcome (even if she is in a good mood) as it would be if you were TO PUT HER IN THE MOOD, if you get my meaning. If you know her LL, then do that to start with. But, if it has been a long time since the two of you had sex, you've got to work up to it a little bit....probably in stages.

Maybe things are different now, but as I recall on the first date, you at least went somewhere, or maybe even bought her dinner instead of just driving straight for a motel. Why should you treat her differently b/c you are M to her? Oh, that's it, isn't it........you are MARRIED to her. Okay.

The way some women are today, I can't answer for all of them, and the movies have given society such an incorrect viewpoint of how things are in reality, until the different sexes don't even know what they are suppose to do anymore. I was shocked to realize that some men think that women actually are like some of those stupid movies protray.....and if there are some, indeed, like that.....then God have mercy on us all. I hate to think what future generations will be like.

But, the way I see it, is if your W has been on the couch and it has been quite a while since having sex.......then remember that women are like crockpots and men are like microwave ovens. A lot of women can't just go from no sex at all for months at a time to jumping on you and saying, "Let me have it big boy!" Maybe a few can, but I still think Hollywood has a lot of men really messed up regarding the truth about the majority of women.

Anyway, she was giving you signals and she was probably shocked the first night and then disappointed the second night that her sexy appearance, alone, did not do the trick, as I am sure it probably has in the past. As you said, she worked a long time on how she presented herself to you.....and this was New Years? Hummmm......maybe she was thinking of starting the new year off right? Just a thought.

I would suggest that you don't continue very long, to just leave the room with her sitting there "cold" and feeling completely like a loser, or she could go to someone that would welcome her affections ......since she has been in somewhat of a battle of confusion over what she is going to do. (And I'm not saying she is, b/c I don't know.) But, I would suggest that you do not let her go without a small reaction of some sort......at least a flirty smile, and then say, "I'm going to bed", and look back at her as you leave the room. Just that much could be rather "sugestive". But, I still think if the "setting" was right....say like the two of you were on the couch watching a movie and you started flirting or acting playful with her, (playfulness can end up in tickling and that can end up in some interesting....positions that can end up in kissing which can end up....well, you get the picture).

In a lot of women's minds, what she did was intiating. It would have been for me! It may have been very hard for her to do that, since things have been strained between the two of you. I can imagine how I would have felt, but hopefully, she likes a challenge. I'm glad you did not give in and dive right for the intercourse, but don't push your luck too far. Just let her work for it....but give her tidbits of rewards for her work. That way, she will be encouraged and she'll know that there might still be a chance, but you won't come across as being as "easy" as you might have been in the past. And, if/when she really does intiate having sex, and you are sure that's what she is doing, this time.....for God's sake, don't reject her then or you will never get another chance. I think I can almost promise you that!

Married life has not caused you to forget how to flirt, has it? Do you remember how to work up to the point of getting her into the bedroom? Why do some H's think that stops after M? Somebody mentioned the chase????? Let me tell you, I never cased a boy or a man my entire life! He chased me and that is what gets my blood boiling to think that females are doing the chasing these days like the men use to do. And, now, the men think that is what females are suppose to do! People are so screwed up about the roles they should have that nobody knows what the heck they are suppose to do.

I know this isn't about me, but I am curious about something. The minute I got M, it was as if my H thought he should sit on his a$$ and I should act like a whore in the bedroom. Why? I did not act like a whore before we were M! I was a young lady. I was very much a vigin in every sense of the word when we got M. It's not that I thought I was suppose to continue to act like a virgin that didn't know what sex was.......but to go from one extreme to the other?

Just b/c he chased me until I caught him (as the old saying goes) before we got M, why would he think things should stop....or be turned around or whatever it is "some" men think? Do all men think that way? Does everyone think their wife should suddenly do all the pursuing when she did none of it before M?

Okay, so we may be getting off the subject a bit, but I'm on a roll (no pun intended). So.....back to my quesions, I have read where so many of the H's would say they were tired of intiating sex and was going to wait for the wife or else there would be no more sex. Excuse me, but I was taught that that was the role of the man.......he WAS the initiator--my nature! What happen? Where did this get so messed up?

I have not had that question answered by anyone yet, so I thought maybe some of you men could do that for me.

Oh, and H4H, I am not fussing at you. God knows that you poor men don't have a clue anymore as to what to think about women! And, like I said, things have changed a lot, and I realize that, but I am still a strong believer in the intial natural behavior that God put in the man and in the woman. He made man the natural one to intiate sex and the woman the natural "responder" to her husband's sexual advances.....and that, my friends, is what is meant by God making a woman's desire be unto her husband. And, yes, it is part of our punishment for what Eve did....blast her anyway!! I'm sure I don't have to tell you what the other part of that punishment is.

BTW, did you hear the one where Adam asked God, "Why did You make Eve so beautiful", and God said so that Adam could love her. Then Adam asked God, "But, God, why did You make her so sweet", and God said so Adam could love her. Finally, Adam had one more question and he said, "But God, why did you make Eve so dumb?" And, God answered Adam and said, "So Eve could love you, Adam!"

Just a little humor there guys!

Sandi

[sandi2]

Made a few typos there, but maybe you will figure them out. The biggest was that man was the intiator by nature....not "my" nature. (LOL) I'm going to stop before I get into more trouble.


Sandi

[Sara]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I've kissed strangers at midnight on New Year's. How did you miss at least a New Year's kiss? Yes, go for it. Sandi is right that you should court your wife, not just thump the side of the bed and expect her to strip and lie down. Why don't you suggest a nice dinner out with wine, at a restaurant you both used to enjoy? Take it slow. You could end up getting someplace if you have a direction.

[InLikeFlynn]

Take a club, thump her on the head, and drag her back to your cave!!! Like the Good Old Days!!!

[Hope4us]

Ok, First ladies, let me say I totally respect your advise and the help you've offered me, and take don't take this as me being upset, because I'm not, I'm just trying to understand, but...

Where did I say anything about jumping her bones? I said some affection. Like holding hands, or hugs or a freakin kiss. I'm not expecting her to jump into bed with me and ravage me, although that would be nice .

And I've been hitting every LL there is. I've been buying her gifts, complimenting her on her looks, her figure, how she smells, I've taken her on dates and if I try to touch her hand, she pulls it away. I've listened and listened and validated and validated. I do all kinds of things around the house to help her out as well as take care of all the manly stuff. I complement/thank her for every dinner she fixes. I just don't know what other LL there is out there that I've not hit on repeatedly for months and months now.

Remember the Coach purse I bought her for her birthday in November? It's still in it's bag in the closet. She hasn't used it yet. She was really excited to get it and thanked me multiple times in the days after and then put it in the closet where it sits to this day.

Today is a perfect example. We've had probably a week of great days. We went shopping for a bit and on the drive I put my hand on her leg and I could just tell she didn't want it there. After the first shop we got in the car and she put her gloves and purse on her lap/leg so I couldn't put my hand there. I've tried hugging her and it's like a hug you get from your neice or nephew. I've tried giving her a peck on the lips and it's like kissing a warm fish.

This morning I had to take her car in to get some minor repairs done on it. Before I left I put a note on her purse asking "Would you like to go have dinner and see 'Marley and Me' tonight"? I got back and asked what she thought and she just looked at me and didn't really respond. So here we sit tonight. We have gone out to eat on a semi-regular basis the last couple months and I never push anything. I routinely tell her I had a good time when we do stuff together.

And I do these things genuinely. Theres nothing fake about them because I truly am appreciative for her and the things she does and the things we do together. But still NOTHING.

It's almost like she's made up her mind that there's no way she'll ever have feelings for me as a way to make herself feel justified for having the affair and to let herself have feelings or do anything to try to work on our marriage she would have to admit it was a mistake and she is just so stubborn she won't go there.

It's kind of like Puppy said, how many times can you get rejected before you just give up?

[sandi2]

I'm sorry! I was talking to the other guy! The two of you should not be on the same thread talking b/c I get confused enough as it is and the both of you have names too close together. Hope4Her, Hope4Us.........Hope4Sandi....