I like that you are trying to be her friend. It is precisely when we behave in ways that are not deserving of friendship that true friends are revealed. One day your wife will see this. No matter what happens for your romantic relationship, you are parents together so you will always be linked. In a sense, you have the rest of your life to show her and for her to see the friendship you are offering.
Thank you for sharing your friend's words. They are nice to read and a great boost.
"...maybe I don't belong here on this site anymore..." - i've been going through this, i've removed myself, and not out of any particular reason. Stay.
for me, its has been tough reading everyone's threads, seeing the pain. and the hope. and knowing that i have a lot of pain to still go through - this is just the beginning. but no hope, not for me. not for my marriage. not for a united family. and while i'm fighting the dark, its not been easy - constant pain, the voices are back and relentless. most days i'm losing. i wish to have this all be a bad dream. i just want it over. but thats not for me, theres no quick cure, this is a mourning and we just have to hack through it.
while you're working through your pain, and your future, you're helping lots of people. you have the gift of putting into words what many of us are thinking but cannot articulate.
"I wonder sometimes why it is that the people who have such a lot of compassion and human wisdom get thrown such tricky balls to field. Maybe because they can actually catch them? Who knows."
what comes first? I would wager that its the hardships that have taught us to be compassionate and wise. if we've never gone through those tough times first, we wouldnt have the patience, and understanding that we have now.
someday your son will be a man with incredible compassion and wisdom, understanding beyond his years. he will look back and remember your strength, how you both worked through this time together. he's learning lessons that will make him a better man, better father, better husband.
your son will ask the questions when he's ready for the answers.
take care of yourself. be well.
"In a ham and eggs breakfast, the hen is involved, but the pig is committed".
Hi Veronica, That's so true about being her friend no matter what...it's been on my mind more mostly because of some stuff that's gone through my head lately about an EA she may have had recently.
Looking back I see that there were signs of an EA in May (when this all started) - and even as recently as September - when our phone records showed that she was calling her "mentor" on her way to work and on her way home from work...her calls eventually dropped off to nothing in October - so perhaps it cooled off - but now that she's out of the house, I do wonder if he is pursuing her more adamantly...She compared me to him a couple times - telling me that he would listen to her when I wouldn't, and that he had a way of diffusing problems calmly, whereas she thought I was always angry (...she once told me she was first attracted to me because of how calm I was when faced with confrontation). She also told me that this "mentor" asked her if she worked late because she had problems at home (which screams predator to me) and that he is an alcoholic (like her father). So...it does pass through my mind that now that she's moved out, maybe he's made his advances more obvious - and while the thought occurs to me - I will not let it hamper me - or get in my way - because I know that I have a hell of a lot more going for me than this guy - and I will continue to have more going for me - and so he is not any real competition for me - rather - he is there as an illusion for my W of something she never had - a good father figure...
In the past, really since I've known her, these father figure types have always been smitten with her attention - and eventually she would have to deal with the fact that we were attracted to her, not as the person she thought she was, but because they wanted to have sex with her...it would happen over and over...and it was something she claimed she finally understood after she had her affair (since that was the first time this cycle actually lead to something physical) - so I wonder if she'll have the presence of mind to see it coming this time...or if she'll first have to make the mistake of trusting this man before she realizes that she is just being used again.
So...I'm aware that this could be happening - but it's not getting in my way, because it has nothing to do with me at all - nothing. The only way I fit into this scenario is as the person that did not love her the way these men want her - while she is very beautiful - I was first attracted to her mind - since we met while I was in graduate school - and she constantly impressed me with her brilliant insights...around these "father figures" she never shows off her intelligence - quite the contrary - she plays this kind of clumsy, helpless pretty girl role who always needs their input...oh...part of the problem I had with our relationship is that I eventually got to wondering if she wasn't more comfortable playing that role - being that person - and getting that kind of attention - than she was being in a relationship with me...
Weird, I just remembered, how once when I was talking with her I said, "you are my wife, that's why I wouldn't expect you to have relationships like that with other men." Her response to that was to accuse me of "owning" her - because I said "my" wife...bizarre memory...
KenF, Nice to hear from you, my friend...though I wish you were doing better. I can understand the pain and darkness you're feeling - and just hope that you continue to find a way to stay strong and do everything you can for yourself as a way of being their for your daughter. Thank you also for your words of encouragement - as you know, they're so often need when going through this sort of mess...
...well, a moment ago I got an email from my W - she had stopped by my house to check on my cat while I'm out of town - and she took it as an opportunity to look around the house and find stuff to get angry about...nothing new there. She found a photo from my baby boy's daycare and a turkey hand he had made for Thanksgiving - both of these only recently arrived in his cubby, and I took them home and put them on the fridge with the expectation of giving the picture to her - as well as the hand - since I already had a turkey drawing he made for Thanksgiving...Well, as she was in the house, she saw these items in the kitchen - and send me an angry email about how I kept these things from - and how she took them with her.
I also realized that she must have seen the stockings on the chimney - including hers - and wonder if she snooped around the rest of the house...there's a picture of her and my baby boy together next to my son's bed, and there were some Christmas cards from friends on the fridge - including a couple that said something along the lines of "here's to new beginnings." Funny...I didn't even think about these things much before I left - since it has just become the home for me and my kids - perhaps I should have been more cautious about what was out for her to see...no...this is my home...it is as it is...and there wasn't anything I needed to hide.
Part of me thinks she just needed to find something to be angry about again...so she did...as she always does...and that's fine...I won't let her anger influence me anymore, so I'll just let it be hers. I emailed her back saying that I understood where she's coming from - and that I didn't have any problem with her taking the photo and the Turkey card...I just asked her to be more considerate about asking me before taking things from my home in the future.
One thing I noticed over the last few months, is that she seems to think her anger justifies anything and everything she does - and that if I don't agree with her when she's angry that I'm somehow disrespectful...it's kind of her way of trying to control things...and I'm just not interested in that game anymore. She can be as angry as she wants to be - that's not part of my life anymore...thank goodness.
I wonder if she noticed that I wasn't trying to hide anything from her...the things she took were out in the open...funny how it doesn't occur to her that if I wanted to keep them from her I could easily have tucked them away somewhere...knowing that she would be in the house the next couple days...It's just not part of my thinking, though...to hide things in my own home...ah well, like I said, she wanted to find something to be upset about, and she did. If it wasn't this it would have been something else. I also have to remember that she did just back from a week with her family...who knows how that went.
Shifu You have helped lots lots of people around here. Trust me, you do. Ken is so right, you are a great father. You sons have a true role model to look up to in every aspect of their lives. Now that is a true 'water off a duck's back'......her anger/darkness doesn't affect you now.
Another thing that I learn from my mess...it is anger. May be I should have noticed long time ago. I guess I am just slow...LOL Anger mostly is the secondary emotion to hide the true feelings. Anger make us feel strong and in control, but what truely behind the anger is another story. To me, it was sadness, betrayed and disappointment....etc. I am not saying you should dig deep to find out what caused your W's angers.....just a though.
Keep up the good work....
NW626
Me:33 STBXW:38 S:3 It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you fight the fight....!!
Just reading over your last posts now, from your description of her actions, it seems like your wife is reeling. Just back from time with her family, and as you said, who knows how that went, she comes looking around a place that must, on some level, provide her with a sense of belonging. Then scared of that feeling, because it is a loss of control, she finds comfort in her familiar false friend, anger.
I think you are so wise to let her anger be hers. She is going through her own process and you wisely recognize that it has nothing to do with you or your boys. It is all hers.
You are doing a great job of being calm and consistent. I know when I have been in my most turbulent states there is nothing like a consistent calm presence.
I have to learn from you how to do a better job of focusing on myself.
ah yes, finding things to get angry about. STBX does the same. latest was the fact i got a Christmas tree this year, when other years i was content to do without.
damned if you do, damned if you dont is what i see. if i didnt get a tree she'd complain i dont care about my D3's Christmas. but i did get one so she complained i didnt before.
i think thats part of the continual bastadization of our characters. any positive changes i make in myself she has to break down. any faults i havent fixed she has to make me aware of. all of this to validate her actions.
so be it. i know my reasons and have nothing to feel guilty about. i'm making my house my own.
you cant explain your reasons to her, she wouldnt allow herself to understand.
"In a ham and eggs breakfast, the hen is involved, but the pig is committed".
Anger mostly is the secondary emotion to hide the true feelings. Anger make us feel strong and in control, but what truely behind the anger is another story. To me, it was sadness, betrayed and disappointment....etc.
So true.
It may have been painful for your W to be in the house which you once shared and realize there are now two refrigerators which need turkey hands on them. Anger protects her from feeling that pain.
Originally Posted By: healthydad
Well, as she was in the house, she saw these items in the kitchen - and send me an angry email about how I kept these things from - and how she took them with her.
I emailed her back saying that I understood where she's coming from - and that I didn't have any problem with her taking the photo and the Turkey card...I just asked her to be more considerate about asking me before taking things from my home in the future.
It seems that in the past when you have pointed out her twisted thinking that it seemed to help a bit. She is defining your motives here and it might be helpful to point out to her that she cannot know why you did what you did without asking you.
I am a bit concerned that she could interpret "I understand where you're coming from" as "I understand you would be pissed that I tried to keep those things from you."
What would you think of letting her know that it sounded like she was accusing you of keeping those things from her when you were doing nothing of the sort and in fact, intended to offer them to her? Perhaps you could point out that if you were intending to keep them from her you would not leave them on the fridge knowing she would be in your house.
I think it is important that you speak up when she pretends to know your motives. Otherwise, her conviction, that she knows without asking, will strengthen. Her familiarity with Patricia Evans may help her recognize this in herself if you point it out.
Hello Carlos, I just read your whole situation and have tears. You situation is so similar to mine and I guess everyone else's. I too am getting close to where you are as well. My W seems to be getting angrier and angrier at me. I don't know why. Maybe she sees the wonderful father I have become. I was not so great when we were together as I just did not feel it yet. Maybe my in-laws have mentioned how great of a father I have become, who knows. My W has had a few tiny moments where she was kind to me and them goes right back to showing anger and distance.
I have found I am damned if I do and damned if I don't as well. I am also getting to the point to just focus on me and the kids and to stop trying to do right by her.
I am extremely close to my kids. In fact I believe I am closer than she is and she is starting to see and feel that. I did not do that intentionally, it just was a by product of the wonderful times and experiences I share with them.
My W has been going 100 mph keeping herself busy and "having fun".
There is nothing you and I can do in our situation other than what we are doing. We just continue to be the best person we can, love our children and seek purpose in life. I know how heart wrenching it is to finally become an incredible person and not be able to truly share who we are with our spouse.
I don't get it either. I love my W and want to be with her, my 2 kids want us to be together, yet she seems happier to go out and start to date someone else.
So....we keep plugging along.
Carlos please stay on and keep posting. Your words and journey have helped me immensely today.
Me/W: 46/36 D7.6/S6 T/M: 7.5/6.5 Bomb 12/05/07 D final: 03/03/09
