How crazy is that? One depressed person helping another.....I don't get it. Do you think that was just an excuse she was giving you for her talking to this man on line in order to continue her EA with him?
This happened before the bomb. The only additional info I could add was it sounded like he was depressed because his wife was not letting him see their kids. I think my W thought I was not spending enough time with our kids and that helped her connect with him.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Has she ever gone out of town to a conference before? Does she have the type of job that sends people to conferences out of town?
She has gone with one or more of our kid before but we often went as a family. She is self employed and it was a trade conference that was related to what she is doing now but there were other ones that would have been better to attend. She often attends local conferences in the town I work in.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Also, it is addictive and she will spend more and more time on the computer instead of spending with her friends, family, or doing the things she used to do....instead the computer becomes her life.
At one point she told me it had been over a year since she had contact. Once before that she told me she always had him to turn to. I believe my W is not in contact with him anymore.
But I believe my W is addicted to a online multi-player game. Her laptop is the hallway that leads to our bedroom and bathroom. I often pass her and can see whats on her screen. What hurts is seeing her smile and hearing here giggle in response to something in the game when she is not aware that I am paying attention. I often ask her how the game is going and she answers me and she tells me about some of the other players in the game.
I do notice a lot more food burnt in the bottom of pans and have suffered a few overcooked dinners.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Just b/c she doesn't seem to be interested in having sex with you does not mean she doesn't care about getting the attention and amiration of other men.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
I would always make sure my hair and make-up looked good b/c I was using the webcam and wanted to look good for my "fan club".
We have no web cams. She does seem to know several men from the game and talks about one a lot and has had lunch with him and his wife on the way back from dropping one of my kids off at university.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
For an example, just telling her that you love her is putting pressure on her b/c she knows that you want to hear her say it back to you and she doesn't want to say it.....so just don't go that route for now.
I stopped that soon after the bomb. I have slipped up a couple of times in two years. What do I look for to know when it is ok to say it again?
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Living under the same roof and being room mates is difficult but if you can keep a postivie POV then you can see this as your chance to really show her how much you have improved yourself and actually cause her to fall in love with you again.
Tonight is one of those difficult nights. I came home from work and she had a very nice dinner ready. A couple of pans had burn food in the bottom but that doesn't bother me even though I wash the dishes. It was a very good dinner. After dinner she showed me a DVD she just picked up of "It's a wonderful Life" and said she wanted to watch it. We did and as now happens I had tears in my eyes for large parts of the movie. I was emotionally effected by movies before but nothing like I am now. She laid on her back with her feet and arms crossed during the movie. I started out being close to her and touching her shoulder with my head. Once again I slipped and asked her if I was too close. No reply from her. As my tears increased I moved further away. After the movie she said it was a good movie and then said "Good Night" and went to bed. I took the DVD out and turned off the TV and then dealt with the dishes. When I got upstairs the room was dark and I said good night as I slipped into bed. Then the tears really started to flow and I worked hard to keep my breathing quite. I wanted to hold my W but it was just a roommate lying next to me! She was laying on her stomach with her hands under her and her head turned away from me. She has told me she always slept that way but I don't remember that and to me it screams don't touch me. I must have lasted about 5 minutes and then quietly got up and came down to the computer to enter this.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
But first, you need to think back about what you were like when she fell in love with you the first time.
Boy that was a long time ago! We shared a hobby and that was how we met. She doesn't seem interested in it any more and I am limited in what I can do in it because of my health. I am trying to become the independent person I was back then. I'm still tying to find the balance between being a good husband/partner and being too independent.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
When emotional needs are not met......that is one of the first things that, I believe, causes a S to turn to another person.
But how do you meet your W emotional needs when she has emotionally disconnected and for all appearances does not want me to feed her emotional needs. She says she wants me to support her needs to accomplish what she wants to do with her life now.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Will you take a good long hard look in the mirror and see what changes you need to make about yourself? And, will you do this with the determination that it will be for you (not her) and that it will be to make you the best man you can be and that it will be for the rest of your life and not to just reel her back into your arms?
I know the changes are for me regardless of what she decides to do. I know I was not the loving husband I should have been and hope someday she will let me work on that. For now I am working at being a loving person to the others in my life.
Its getting very late here and I have to go to work tomorrow so I will comment on the rest of your post later.
Earlier this week when I came home from work I stayed awhile in the car after I had parked in the driveway. I sat there thinking how nice it would be if my wife would greet me at the door with a hug. I knew that wasn't going to happen and felt sad for my self. I then had a quick pep talk to have a better attitude. I walked to the front door and opened it. When I entered I could see my wife at the other side of the house sitting at the dinning room table looking at her laptop. She didn't seem to look at me and she should have heard the door open.
Well there went my positive attitude. I took my lunch cooler into the kitchen and unpacked the containers and then did a few other short tasks. I then went to the passthu to the dinning room and said hello to my wife. I tried to say it cheerful and nicely but she look at me somewhat upset.
Later she asked me why I didn't say hello back to her when I entered the house? I told her I did not hear he say hello.
She has a quite voice and I suppose she could have said hello without looking at me. But also could it be that she subconsciously spoke softly so I couldn't hear it so she could have reason to be upset with me?
I like to think we are both trying to be nice but have preset notions of what the others behavior will be.
Oh Jay, my heart just hurts for you b/c I think your wife is hooked bad on the computer thing. That is exactly how I got caught up in all my mess. It all started so innoncently......just a simple free on line game. I did not own a web cam at that time either. At first I did not tollerate any type of flirtation.....when I saw that was what they were there for....I was out of the game and moved on. But, after a while, I began to flirt a little also and I discovered it was fun. In fact, I was doing a lot of those giggles myself. I had not had anyone to actually flirt with me since before I was married. So, I felt like a teenager again. That was the beginning of my downfall. The men would, of coure, want to be on my "friends list" and they kept after me to get a cam. So, finally I got the nerve and bought one. I did not try to keep it a secret from my H. I always left the door open and as far as he knew, we were just playing a game. I think he started getting frustated at all the time I was spending on the "games" when he started to come in the room and look at the screen and ask who was winning. Of course he could he me laughing and having a good time. But, then things got into deeper stuff and then.....he confronted me about the proof he had and told me to delete all the contacts. I did......except one somehow was able to still reach me when I went on line a couple of nights later. Well, I hung on to him b/c he was my "life line". Isn't that sad? But, that is how I felt. That is why it is like a drug. It is an addiction. When my H found out about me keeping that one man a secret contact, he blew up.....and that is when it went into a full blown EA.
So, I'm telling you that your wife is showing all the signs and needs to be stopped before it goes any farther. One way you could find out if things are on the up and up is to sit next to her to watch the game and see the chat. Of course she won't get involved with the person......if she even plays with you watching. She will be very angry and defensive and want to know why you are wanting to watch, etc. That is a dead give-a-way. If you have access to her friends list.......see if it is all men or mostly men on there. Also, that leades to the IM stuff and that is where I really got into trouble b/c my H found my IM messages I had written. I was so careless and stupid b/c I did not give him credit for knowing enough about computer to figure out how to find all of that. But he did.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted By: sandi2
When emotional needs are not met......that is one of the first things that, I believe, causes a S to turn to another person.
But how do you meet your W emotional needs when she has emotionally disconnected and for all appearances does not want me to feed her emotional needs. She says she wants me to support her needs to accomplish what she wants to do with her life now.
That is the problem you are faced at this point. She had to go without "some" emotional need being met and had to adapt to it for so long that she feels disconnected and doesn't want you to touch her. I think it is some sort of subconcious way that we have of protecting ourselves.....but I'm no doctor. I just know that we have to learn to adapt and accept things if we are going to stay in a situation we can't change, so it is like we women (and I think a lot of men) can build this "wall" around them to protect themselves from being receptive to the very thing that they have wanted for so long. I went through all of that. She is getting her emotional needs filled by the men she is contacting on the computer. As far as that last statement.....I think she is talking about something entirely different. Not emotional needs there, but either financial or something else.
You have a long, hard road ahead of you if you want to stand for your M. But, I am still here with my H in my M. I never left. It was a long period of anger and resentment and other emotions b/c I did not want to be here! So....it took a long time for me to start to come around. It can be done. You've got to be a pretty big person to take on the challenge. But, I bet you can do it if you think she is valuable enough to work that hard. Is she?
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Jay, I thought of somehting else. If you approach her to want to watch her play her game on the computer. Try not to show any negative attitude like you suspect her of wrong doing or she will sense it immediately. If you can act upbeat and just say something to the affect that it seems if you are going to get to spend any time with her, you'll have to watch her play. Or if you don't know how to play the game she's into....that is a good excuse....you want to learn how. Act as if you are interested in the "game" and not what she is doing. But, she won't go to her friends list with you watching. And, she won't do any flirting on the chat board with you there, but you will pick up on a sense of anger b/c you are invading her privacy and her space and her time with the OM.
I hope to God, sincerely, that I am wrong. But, I don't think I am.
I'll talk to you later. Take care.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Jay, I thought of somehting else. If you approach her to want to watch her play her game on the computer. Try not to show any negative attitude like you suspect her of wrong doing or she will sense it immediately.
I have always tried to be upbeat about her game playing. Over the holiday see has been playing it in the living room. I ask her how see is doing and if see has a good crew or partners in the game.
After she came to bed last night we said good night and then I laid there hugging a body pillow that was between us. I was facing the nightly struggle I have deciding if I should show my wife some affection or just hug the pillow. After 10 or so minutes I asked my W if she was still awake. She said yes and then I told her that I was having a battle trying to decide if I should act like a spouse or like a roommate in bed. Her quick abrupt answer was "roommate".
I hugged the pillow the rest of the night. In the morning she asked if I was awake and I said yes. She said that we both have been unhappy. She said we have problems in that our finuces are not liquid enough. I asked her if she had made plans to leave a long time ago. She said she had thought about it but thought things could still work back then. I stayed calm and asked her several other questions.
She believes that starting yesterday what we dream each night determines what will happen for each month of the following year. I don't like that idea so I have few dreams this time of year.
Well last night she dreamed that we did the D. She claimed I snored for several hours but I do not recall having any dreams. I did think that last night I should think positive about the R. Who knows what I dreamed!
She says she is going to look at our finances again soon.
I have thought that I should ask her to sleep in another room if she wants just to be roommates at night. Tell her that I believe the parents bed should be for spouses. The other side of me thinks that at night when she is asleep and I do put my arm around her or hold her that she does sense the affection (Not passion) that I still have for her. He hand often responds by clasping mine back.
I did let my wife know that I did not want a D. She understands that. I did not know what to say to let her know that I know it is up to her and that I know she has to do what she feels is right.
How am I feeling this morning? I don't feel like eating and have an upset stomach. I am keeping a smile on and trying to stay positive. My son just went snowboarding with his friends and my daughter is still in bed. My W is painting the birdhouse my son gave to her.
So....it took a long time for me to start to come around. It can be done. You've got to be a pretty big person to take on the challenge. But, I bet you can do it if you think she is valuable enough to work that hard. Is she?
I have given that a lot of thought since you asked this. I think my kids and future grandkids are.
About her I am not sure. This morning after she mentioned that she had always put our two children before her. She claims I never did put the kids in the past before me. I have to admit that may have been true. I took a long time to grow up and still am working on that.
I asked her if she had ever put me before the kids. She said no and I felt that by the tone of her voice that she took pride in that. I asked if she thought if her mother had ever done that for her dad. She said she did not know.
Was I jealous of my kids? I have wondered that in the past.
Another point is that I seem to have more spiritual needs than she. She did put out a Christmas nativity scene. My son and her joked that she was playing with her "Action Figures".
Part of that hurt me but I could understand it as a joke only.
I asked her this morning what her beliefs were. She said we should be nice to each other. We are of different faiths and I don't believe she has been to church since we were married by a priest of her faith.
My family does attend church often and I have joined them a few times on my own. Part of me wants to give my faith a try again. I do believe in God and believe I am alive today because of the power of prayer. My faith requires a 10% tithe and I told my IC that I thought my going back to church would be the death of my marriage. My IC suggested Yoga.
I still love my W and believe I made a commitment to love her until death do we part. (My faith believes in eternal marriage and I know that W does not view some in my faith kindly and does not want to learn more about it).
Several nights ago I was thinking about the the wedding ring I had on. Did I remember right that my W gave it to me as a token of the vow she took to love me? I took it off and put it in my night stand and have not put it back on.
So I am torn.
My view is to put my faith in God. Do what I can to work myself and on the M and be willing to accept what God has in store for me.
I am here crying now thinking of what I have done or may do to my kids and any future grandkids.
Last night I was sitting in the living room watching my son and daughter bake a cake and my wife cooking dinner. It hit me that this may be the last time we well be together for Christmas.
I went to our bedroom before I started to cry. When my wife called up saying dinner was ready I replied I was in the bedroom. She came to the door and repeated that dinner was ready. I asked her when she planned to tell the kids about wanting a D. She said not this break and then went back downstairs.
I got some PMA and went down to dinner. After helping clean up the table and try my daughters cake I went down to hit the treadmill. I have gotten over my cold enough to exercise.
When I came up the living room lights were off and my wife was up in bed. I gathered up and took out the garbage and changed the cat litter. I put dishes in the dishwasher and started it and went up stairs and went to bed. I said a silent prayer and had a calm feeling knowing I have been trying all I can to save the marriage but I still had a pit in my stomach and sleep very little. I was careful not to touch my wife but at 1 am she put her arm around me and I held her hand. I asked if she minded if I took the pillow out between us. She said she didn't care. So I did and she held me for awhile. She then rolled over and I followed her and put my arm around her and she held my hand. Nothing was said between us. She rolled on to her stomach and I rolled back over. She was tossing and turning a lot both before and after that.
This morning I asked he she was a awake and wanted to talk. She said sure. After work I will fill you in on what was said. It is still clear she wants a D and said she did not know how to separate our finances. I replied It is going to be hard.
I started to get up and she got up and grabbed her pants out of the bathroom. I replied I was just going to weight my self and then go exercise. When I came out of the bathroom and looked at her she replied that I had a strange look. I said what kind of look should I have. She gave me a 1/2 of a hug and I left to go downstairs.
She has checked on me twice as I type this. I keep putting up a different window whenever I hear her coming.
When is it time to go dark with the LRT? More tonight
Another night has gone by. I told her yesterday that I was going to take a hour lunch and be home later. I work 9 hr days and it takes an hour going to/from work. I opened a account with the closest credit union to work and got the numbers to change my direct deposit from the credit union where my W is also on my account. I had lunch and stopped at the post office.
I took a 1.5 hours of vacation and came home about the same time as usual hoping to spend some time with my kids.
When I got home my W asked how my day had gone. I spent a few minutes giving her a very short report and asked then asked how her day went.
My wife had washed some dishes just before she started cooking dinner. I asked what I could do to help. Normally she would say nothing but last night she said I could set the table. We were out of the fancy silverware and I checked to see if they were still in the dishwasher. They were but the dishes did not get cleaned from last night. She said I could wash them since the water was still in the sink. I did and then set the table. I came back and dried and put away the rest of the dishes in the sink. I also took some short breaks to check my mail on the computer in the next room.
We had a good dinner and the kids were in a good mood and we all talked. My daughter was talking about a sky diving class. I asked my W if she had ever thought about jumping out of a plane. She said no. This is about the level of our talks. Pleasant but short.
After dinner my wife started to wash the rest of the dishes from the dishwasher and I dried and put them away. As has happened in the past I did something to annoy my W. I saw that some silverware still had some suds on them so I turned the water on to wash it off. My wife told me she had already done that in a upset tone of voice. Here I am trying to help and I get that instead of appreciation. Thinking about it maybe she had some reason. She asked what I did for lunch. I told her about the other things but not about the new account. I sure she could tell that I was leaving something out.
She is worried that I have memory problems and can not handle paying the bills. I have said several times that I would like to start doing that. Two days ago I asked her if I had done something to cause her to be upset with me since the kids came home. One of the things she mentioned was that I had asked to start paying the bills. Right now most of my paycheck is deposited into her account and she pays most of the bills. I pay for my gas and for bills associated with a 1 arce property that we own out of state.
I mentioned that I would have to learn to pay the bills in the future. After a D I can not see having her as my accountant!
I need to figure out how to start to protect myself. I still have the view that I can choose to have my money or to have a possible chance at saving the M. I will give the money up for the family. I would like to not have to sell the house and would like to stay in it. I love were we live and I am sure my kids would be upset to loose the house also. This is going to be hard.
After finishing the dishes my wife went to the living room and got on her laptop. I headed for the treadmill for a 1/2 hour workout. When I came backup up she was deep into her computer and I went to another room to check this forum and my e-mail. I then headed past her and she still seemed very busy and I went to bed without saying anything. I was reading in bed when she joined me. She said goodnight and I said goodnight back to her. I then shared a quote that made me laugh. It was quote from a Wife that said that her H showed love by having sex with her but to her love is shown by letting her sleep. My wife kinda laughed and then I turned out the lights and went to sleep. I got up early to type this but will head back to bed for a few hours.
I hope this gives a quit glimpse to what is going on.
