I am so happy for you that you had sucb a wonderful evening with your father and son and the rest of your family. What a wonderful thing to have your son say.
And good for you to see and feel all the positives in your situation.
I am getting set for a run.
I have a new thread: Listening, Observing and Learning.
Hi Veronica: It's funny - I've only received two Christmas presents this year - as in objects - but having my father there last night, and having my son say what he did just made me feel like it was a very complete Christmas...at least as complete as it could have been without my baby boy there.
I've had many thoughts pass through my mind these last few days - and yesterday, while talking with my mom about my plans for the future - and about how much I've missed being in an academic environment...I quietly realized that I wasn't even thinking about being with another person. That may not seem like a big deal - but it's more than just saying that I wasn't thinking about being with someone other than my wife - it was a realization that I just don't feel much of a need or an urge to be in a relationship at all.
I look toward the next few years - and see them as a time when I can build my relationship with my sons, focus on stuff that I had neglected in myself, and just grow...while my W and I had talked about having another child - before the bomb dropped - I would have to say that I'm very happy with just my two boys.
This is kind of new for me - since I've never really gone that long without a relationship before - and have always felt a silent urge to meet someone new...but for some reason that's just not in my mind at all...almost like I just want a break from all the issues that come with being in a relationship.
I spoke very briefly with my W today...hm...even calling her my wife is starting to feel false...and I just felt like I was talking to someone that I no longer had any connection with at all. She was distant and cold - the usual thing - and even seemed a bit reluctant to answer my questions about how my baby boy is doing (he's been under the weather for a while now...and she doesn't seem to be doing much about it...).
I felt today like I used to feel when we would talk over the phone while having an argument - and I would get this frustration go through me - and this thought of why can't she just be more mature about this so we can settle it and move on...in the past my perspective had a lot to do with my own issues as well - and I suppose my perspective still has a lot to do with my own issue - but I can also see that this person I'm talking with is no longer involved in carrying about us or about our future - it's as though she has become defined by her anger...
Which leads me to this odd conclusion...maybe I don't belong here on this site anymore...since I am not trying to rescue my marriage any more...rather, I am seeing the end of my marriage as a positive thing for me - and for my kids. I'm not walking away from it - I'm not giving up - I'm just accepting it as over - and while I still have sadness at that thought - and can still recognize the good memories I shared with my W - I just don't see much potential for happiness with the person my W has become - or accepted as herself.
Granted, as you said, Veronica, she may well be a stranger to herself - but I just don't see her struggling with who she is - or fighting against it any more - I think she may have just accepted this persona as her genuine self - and maybe that's the problem...the person I had known and loved never felt that genuine to me - and I often felt like she was putting on a face in order to be someone she wasn't truly comfortable being...and now that mask is gone...and she is who she was raised to be...and just isn't fighting it anymore.
There were many times when I thought my W was too much like her father - and she would fight that and deny it - and I know it's a terrible thing to say or think of someone - and it's dismissive and belittling - and I don't want to bring that type of thinking with me into my life after this marriage - but when I saw the similarities between my wife and her father they often worried me - since the big similarity was an ability to say or do something terrible - and then within an instant - and right in front of the person that saw her say/do that thing - pretend that it never happened...it's one of the reasons I've never trusted her father...and one of the reasons I've often had a time trusting my wife...especially after her affair.
So...I don't know...I think I'll still keep coming back to the site - I just like the people here so much - and I know that I'll still have more things to go/grow through in the months ahead as I move toward ending my marriage...but I just don't want her back any more...it pains me to say that...but I just don't have any doubt about it anymore. I am happier without her in my life - I feel safer, less taxed, no anger, calm - and have more clarity. It's not that she was the cause of any of these emotions - it was just that the dynamics of our relationship just weren't healthy - and weren't built on a good foundation...and given who she is now, I don't think we could even rebuild on a good foundation if we wanted to. I just don't trust her enough...and I don't know if she has the strength it takes to break away from her past...
Coming home and being surrounded by love and support has made me see just how much I have to offer someone - and just how able I am to live independently. I don't need my W in order for me to be happy...and that's become very obvious to me...especially since being with her just hadn't been a source of happiness for a long time...since well before the bomb.
I must admit that feeling this way kind of sucks...I wanted to be one of the rare success stories - I wanted to have my love for my wife win out and prove stronger than our pain - and her past - but it's just not what I feel in my heart anymore...I love her. I will always love her. But I can't bring her happiness - nor can she bring happiness to me....
I'm not angry with her and I don't resent her - I'm just not addicted to my love for her anymore - since that's how it felt sometimes - like this addiction that kept pulling me back to her, no matter how harmful it was for me...I think it's just over...and I am fine. I want to heal now and rediscover my life.
HD, I hope you will stay... I know your words have been illuminating for me, and I think the community would be poorer without you. The process of letting go you are describing is one that is very familiar to me, although I am only at the very beginning of it. I too have felt addicted to my wife, or to my love for her, or her validation of me, or whatever... whatever it is, I have at times behaved like an addict. I guess at my stage of this process, I feel like I am still hopeful that W will fight her demons, as I am fighting mine... but I know that I cannot make that happen, I know that I cannot save my marriage alone. I can stop contributing to its destruction, but I can't "make" W do the same. So I worry that she won't keep fighting (although she seems to be right now, taking medication and going to therapy and trying, in admittedly small ways, to take some responsibility in our marriage; but what if she gives up, or decides she doesn't want me after all?), and then I will have to make a very difficult choice, and it inspires me to see how you have come through this and the way you are dealing with that choice. I'm hoping that it doesn't come to that for me, but I hope that if it does you and others like you will be here to help me through it.
May the Lord of peace send peace to all who mourn, and comfort to all who are bereaved. Amen.
Me: 33 Her: 39 M: 8 T: 10 K: D15, S4 Separated 10/30/08. My current thread
I am not sure what to say to you. Clearly I and everyone here will support you in any choice that you decide is best for your and your boys.
I am refraining from sharing any thoughts because I am not in a good place today and do not want my mood to affect anything I say to you. Not that you were asking for comments but I just want to be supportive.
I hope you stick around, I have found your counsel to be invaluable.
So I worry that she won't keep fighting (although she seems to be right now, taking medication and going to therapy and trying, in admittedly small ways, to take some responsibility in our marriage; but what if she gives up, or decides she doesn't want me after all?), and then I will have to make a very difficult choice, and it inspires me to see how you have come through this and the way you are dealing with that choice.
CL - to me, what your W is doing is more than small ways...if she's going through anything like what my W is going through in terms of her pain and sorrow - than she is making a bold move in trying to look into the sources of her pain - and that will be so painful for her - and for you - but if you can love her through it and offer her safe harbor then do not quite. I didn't come to my conclusion happily - it's not where I want to be - so it's more of an acceptance - but the simple truth in my situation is that my W will not get any help - and does not believe that anything is wrong with what she's done or how she's been...it's heartbreaking to me because my W is one of the most amazing people I have ever known - and she will always be one of the most amazing people I've ever known...but I just couldn't continue to make the kind of sacrifice loving her requires...it's too painful...and too destructive for me. But your wife is heading in the right direction - just don't slip into thinking that she has to help herself in order to help you marriage - she has to help herself for her first - and then, hopefully, you'll be able to work together on your M. Encourage your W - support her - just don't be critical or try to correct anything she says to you - whatever she says and feels is real to her - respect that and respect her so she feels safe enough to open up to you - and safe enough to be herself around you...Seek out SmartCookie's posts...her words will help you a lot.
Veronica, Your thoughts are always welcome - though I understand how sometimes we find ourselves in emotional spaces that make it hard to know what to say...
I have a feeling I will stick around...I just feel bad that I'm not here doing what people come to this site for...I'm not fighting to save my marriage...and I would hate to discourage anyone - since I do believe that divorce is a last resort - and marriage is worth fighting for. This is my second marriage - and my first one ended so easily - without any fights, without any effort from either of us to keep it - we both just knew we weren't right for one another - this marriage is/was different - and I wanted to fight for it - but these last couple months have made me see some things that I didn't realize before...
I went into DBing with the belief that I would either come out of this as a better person on my own, or as a better person with a better marriage. What I see now is that there will not be a better marriage - because I cannot be with the person my wife has accepted as herself. Perhaps she'll change in the future - and for her sake, I hope she does - since I want for her to be happy - and want what is best for her - I just know that I do not make her happy - and I am not best for her - nor is she best for me. This is a strange thing, love, it has a power to confuse and inspire unlike anything else in life.
Stick around. You have a long way to go still. You may not want to reconcile anymore/restore your marriage, but emotionally you "havent done" the full circle yet. Other people's expierences will be useful. We are friends among friends here. xxxx K
Carlos I am happy for you to rediscover yourself. To me, DBing is more for saving ourselves. If our M got save through the process, that's just the bonus. Love indeed is a strange creature. It has shown you the next step. You just never know what fate will bring you. Please stick around....it will be helpful to many others and you.
NW626
Me:33 STBXW:38 S:3 It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you fight the fight....!!
Hi Kalni, I do think I'll be sticking around...especially since I think you're completely right - that I haven't done the full cycle yet - and I'm sure there will be some more tough times ahead - especially when we get closer to the actual divorce - and my W's emotions/anger come out in full force again.
NW, how are you? I also agree with you that DBing is more about saving oneself than saving the marriage - and I think I've found the right path toward working on myself...I did wish that my marriage would be saved too, but it's just not in the cards.
I feel some sadness again today - a feeling of loss in my chest - almost as though saying it out loud here just made it more real in my heart. I've also let my family know my decision - so that's impacting me as well...I guess it's just that I now have to start thinking about what I'll do next once I'm back in California. I know of some mediators to talk with - and am just going to try to bring up the subject gradually and peacefully with my W - since I think it will likely lead to more explosives on her part...and that's just what I don't want any more of in my life - her anger.
I slept a lot today - which is unusual - but I think I needed it to fight off a cold that has been clouding my head these last few days.
