WAW - Possible MLC I need help, WAWs advice III

[AmyC]

This is all I have at the moment, LD.

[25yearsmlc]

Gosh LonelyD,

I have a bunch of stuff to do for Christmas and it'd take an hour to re-hash. My old posts may be around and have a lot to do with h wanting a job back in Alaska, the one state I did not want to live in again. He had a full blown manly MLC type of thing partly due to adventures he felt unfulfilled with, and a strong desire for money, which he equated to success. He still struggles with that problem and he is a physician and has had long hours for decades. He seems to have a sense of entitlement that stems from such hard work (HE DOES work his butt off and always has, for his career) but the thing is, if you work hard at work, that does NOT translate into hard work on R's...just your work. Get it? I raised our kids almost like a single mom. And I resented that. A lot. And I showed that. So for my part, I would do things differently if I could. INstead of seeing each extended evening at work or added call, as a slap in my face (or "proof" that he didn't put family first)
I should have provided a home of warmth and love that would make him feel foolish for taking extra call. Sometimes he could have made his schedule better, to be sure. But the thing is, punishing him did NOT motivate him to do so.
The funny thing is, even if I'm "right" and h was "wrong", my behavior did nothing to change or improve his. Yet I continued it for years. The cheeseless tunnel, and I went down it over and over again b/c I feared if I were kind and warm to him when he had over extended, somehow I'd be rewarding him for neglecting his family.
See how brilliant my plan worked?

So yes, I played a role in the problems, although I guess it started with his workaholism. He has a hard time relaxing. And when he wanted to live up there again, I simply could not reason with him. I didn't understand why it was even debatable as I said "no, don't want to live there again. Tried it, hated it, good bye". It was weird, as I'm an attorney and used to having smart logical arguments WIN...but they didn't. He left anyhow. And guess what? Eventually (see my posts b/c I cannot explain well enough at the moment) I joined him there with d11, with the plan of going up to "check it out".

The things I feared for h, job wise, came true. The docs did NOT have a good business plan and it cost h, (and our family) a fortune to discover. They breached the contract in multiple ways and it was self evident that it would not get better. He knew he had to leave as there was really no choice, although we saw other doctors stuck there. The only issue was when to leave, the end of the school year for d11, etc. Then, h's mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer. Our "excuse" for leaving was thus perfectly presented and we moved back to California. Here we are, EXCEPT that h took my offer for him to go back east to be with his mom, FOR THE SUMMER and did that. He is on the east coast near her. He got a temp job working shifts at a hospital. So his pay is now paying our bills, more or less. He spends his evenings with his mom and weekends. This is a blessing we were told not to expect as her cancer has already spread beyond the lungs and is an aggressive form. But here we are, months later, and it's the holidays and that's a good thing. But then he goes back east after the New Year's so my fears are that he isn't looking hard for a job here. Why? I don't know. I don't want to move back east again, although I feel for him with his mom. He says taking a permanent job here would be bad for the time he'll need to be with his mom, when she gets worse. I say, fine, THEN quit. But now, we're apart, again. Being married, but living such separate lives. Do I fear OW? Once in awhile, but not that much. He sees my family back east a lot as well, so it'd be tough for him to manage an A, not to mention his own mom's needs. But since I think he's depressed anyhow, his job search for something here, seems feeble to me. Unlike the rest of the world, h can find a job with an hour of searching, if he's willing to drive. So, I'm worried and a little confused, but what's new? I have to live in the moment for now. THen, we'll have an adult conversation that I probably will run by my DB coach and ask how to figure out what's really going on. If h wants to move back home b/c maybe his mom has a few years left, I would at least understand that. But he's not saying it. He seems to be "doing" it. I just don't know.

My guess is he's depressed b/c Alaska didn't work out and he hasn't even had the time or space to fully deal with that. He admitted while we were there that it was a "big mistake" and that it costs us a lot. I worked full time while there but now am working on getting a teaching credential, which I know means a cut of 75% in pay. But I have wanted to teach/act/direct for years, only to have h being absent or disagreeable about it, "preventing me". So I've always jammed some show in somewhere it didn't impact my kids, or h.

Well, I cannot wait for him anymore so I'm pursuing my own goals, but not at my kids expense. I write from home anyhow, and Teaching is perfect for that as I'll have the same holidays as d's.

I also think h is sad for his mom. I know he is. Who wouldn't be? We've both had deaths in the family the past 7 months so it has been weird. Lots of sudden expensive travelling and grief. And cuts in money. And the whole Alaskan thing cost us our savings. Not our retirement, yet. But all the "cash" we had is gone. And so, when h whines about my taking a pay cut to do what I love, I have to stop myself from slapping him. Comparatively, his "mistake" costs us 6 figures AND almost our marriage. And for what? if he'd wanted to go to Africa to save lives, I'd have joined him. But it wasn't noble. It was selfish and his extreme beliefs about Alaska and making a gazillion dollars there with a 'gold rush' mentality were irrational.

SO Here's the toughest part. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that I'm right on that sentence. That my h was/is selfish and behaved horribly, and irrationally, and is better now, but not perfect. Let's say he has to really struggle with not being a selfish or critical person. Well, do we get a d?

I mean, sometimes we marry people with substantial issues and faults. Sometimes they change, or their flaws are disguised or hidden until later on. So We have to figure out whether to stay with that or not. But we cannot stay if we're also determined to keep fighting their faults. WE have our own, for one thing. And honestly, we're fighting a losing battle if we think WE can fix them. It is not our job. It's a fruitless endeavor and an embittering one. I refuse to become bitter.

So what WE do, is try really hard, every single day and sometimes hourly, to forgive them. We work on our own stuff, and as for them, we work our butts off To let go of the past and live well now.

I had an epiphany a few years back and though I often backslide, I know what my goal is. We had a 4 day conference to attend (well, it was medical for h) in Palm Springs. We brought our d's. I decided that for the four day period, I would totally live IN the moment, NOT feeling bad about what was to come, or worry about it, or think of the injuries and wounds I had in my heart. I thought, "maybe this is the last vacation we'll have as a family (though son was in college) and I want the girls to have fun with all of us getting along, no matter what..." Well, somehow, with prayer and a few "mantras", I got through it. We DID have fun and it WAS a bonding experience. So, I had glimpsed what forgiveness and living in the moment could be. Granted, I knew it was only four days and that did help me. But recently the girls mentioned the trip and "That was sooo fun!" Mission accomplished as to the girls. But it also taught me that I CAN do this, if I set my mind to it. At least for periods of time.

Give yourself some sort of time period and goal that is achievable, to be in the moment. Create it.

More later, hope this helps.
(( j ))

[LonelyD]

I am doing what you are doing. I have an OM in the picture that is keeping things out of reality right now. Oh yes, I had my self revelations about me, and my issues, they are done and are behind me. Forgiving is the hardest thing I have had to do so far. Back when the bomb dropped it was, no problem, take her back in a heartbeat. now, I am more realistic. I have had to do a ton of soul searching and self evaluation to come up with the things I wanted to "fix". things that didn't have anything to do with her or about any of this, but I figured if your gonna clean the kitchen, might as well clean the whole house. I have. I am in a very good place. I have fixed my financial problems, mostly, couple of loose end credit cards, I have established a solid home life for my D17. I have huge respect from the people who kow me as to my accomplishements, and, most important , I feel good about myself and like me very much.

things are hard emotionally, you know, you're there. I don't act happy when I see her, I am happy, nothing I do is an act. I am who I am, thats it. If she doesn't like my attitude if I am in a foul mood when she sees me, tough, my life, my issue. I'll be honest though, I am never in a foul mood lately, ever. Forgiving is hard. God has put me on this path. He has told me to get past this. He has told me there will be nothing without this. It is a very hard thing to do. I need to forgive the one thing I hate most in the world, cheating spouse. Now I am here with it right in my face. I found it is easy to chastise things that don't involve you, the tables have turned. I am doing it, I really am. I think d's are a waste of peoples time when you feel it can be saved. I read in the DB book, that we have to put our lives on hold. god has told me when she comes back, there will be no me time. I need to get my "house" in order, for the reconciliation of my marriage and realtionship with her will begin with forgiveness. It is about her now and will be then. I am using my time wisely because I will have to deal with her when she comes back. Again, I am the prize in this, not the other way round. I am in a place, mindwise, that I haven't been in years. I am very strong right now and get stronger each week. I am not a religious person, but have become a huge believer over the past month. things are happening that are not coincidence, that is a fact. She is not pounding down my door, ringing my phone off the hook or leaving OM, but I am dealing with this better than I have.

I pray and have my mantras as well. And they do work. Right now, I have moved to a place that God wants me in, without question. I asked for a sign from her, from Him. I know He doesn't work that way. What I got was forgive first, evertything else second. But somehow, I will something....He loves me and knows I need a carrot....Thanks for sharing with me. I used to believe inthe all mighty dollar and still do at some level. I would rather be happy and healthy then chase a pipe dream...

[LonelyD]

Amy, thanks for that song. yeah, hits home....

How are things with you and H if you don't mind me asking? My D17 finally spilled everything about why this Xmas will suck, Nana not coming up, you and mom not together, this just sucks, we should cancel it...
It really hurt to hear her say that. I know its been going thru her head, as well as the other 3. It will suck and it will hurt, but I will bind this Xmas together. It may not be what it was, but it will be good and it will be ours. She will be there Xmas Eve and on Xmas with FIL at his house. I will be there shining like the crazy diamond that I am. Who knows, maybe thats where the other kiss is supposed to happen. don't really feel it righ tnow, but He works in mysterious ways. Maybe this time its not me....

I am still in the very good place Amy. FaithfulH, I am very relaxed, antsy, but relazxed. New furniture came, all of it. Looks dynamite. W was supposed to stop over to pick some things up, she never showed D17 is out the door. told her to lock it, too many xmas presents. If W shows, she can't get in, doors are locked and she has no key. Too bad, wanted her to see the new set.....Not to rub it in, to see it. I need to move my couch upstairs and do some furniture rearranging tonight. get it done, get it out of the way.

Something about W today, I dreamt or thought I did, can't remember what, but something is in my head and stomach, nothing emotional or draining, but something...

[FaithfulH]

LonelyD,

You sound great! Glad to hear about the furniture....sounds like you are making the old homestead into a beautiful place that W will long to come home to....not just the furniture....but, her "new" husband too!

I have to tell you....you've got 2 of the "Queens of DBing" visiting you. I mentioned before that AmyC was one of my mentors...and now dear 25yrs has stopped by. She also helped me tremendously and has tremendous insights as you can tell by her posts. This part of 25yrsmlc's post really spoke to me about what this whole process is about. I think YOU get it as evidenced by your focus on forgiveness and unconditional love....

So what WE do, is try really hard, every single day and sometimes hourly, to forgive them. We work on our own stuff, and as for them, we work our butts off To let go of the past and live well now.

[25yearsmlc]

Geez guys,

I have to admit I feel like I'm at a reunion with some good friends who've seen me through some tough times...because I am.

LonelyD, you are really in the right place, in many ways.

LD, I have a suggestion for you and the holidays you may find useful. Assuming that your M is over (which I'm not doing, but for now...) then you really need to establish a totally UNrelated "tradition" for your kids asap.

The first Christmas after H left, he was briefly here but left the 27th and I had a s20 home for the holidays, along with d's then 16 and 8, a house with 3 kids on holiday and they knew things were looking dark for us. I didn't want the stress of the limbo our M was in, to keep nagging at me and them.

So, I rented a ski cabin a few hours away and after h left, we drove up. It got dark pretty fast and I was a little afraid since we ended up driving in a blizzard and I got lost, and didn't know for sure how to put chains on, but somehow we got there. But we managed to find the cabin late that night, heated it with a fire, made hot chocolate and watched a movie. The next few days were sunny and beautiful and we had a blast skiing and snowboarding. The youngest d bragged to h about snowboarding so well and loving it. H has to have wished he'd been there. (If not, who needs him?) But that wasn't my goal, it was simply a by product for him. Not my problem or responsibility.

But interestingly, the next Christmas came and d11 (then 9) said, "I hope we're going skiing again, b/c we ALWAYS go skiing and snowboarding after Christmas".... see, for kids, "traditions" start with one or two events. Then it's "we always do this!!"...

And h wasn't part of it, but what made it great was that we had fun as a family, and his absence wasn't nearly as glaring. He just wasn't a part of it. Oh well.

More dramatically, the following summer I took the kids to Italy for my 25th anniversary as h "couldn't" get the time off and lived in Alaska then. He visited here for a few days-the actual anniversary and felt that was a great gesture on his part, as he still didn't "get it"... since it wasn't a priority to him to take a real trip for such an occasion, which it was for ME, I took the trip and took the kids. The girls and I had spent many nights planning the trip and taking genuine pleasure in that.

Much Later, I learned that it bothered h a great deal to know that the kids and I were living it up without him...and we were! I honestly barely thought of him as there were NO reminders and there had been great joy in planning the trip itself. It took the edge off d17's hurt and anger at the time to plan it with me. She was especially well informed when we got there, knowing what to look for at the Vatican and Florence. I recall laying in bed looking at booklets and the internet and picking a really old ( as in, built in 1525) place to stay for a week and we all loved it. It was a great bonding and learning experience. It was like a gift that keeps on giving b/c you have all these memories to share.

This spring our d19 will be in Germany and Russia, studying Stanislavsky and Brecht (acting gurus). I'm hoping that in May I will visit her with h and he says "sounds great" so we're planning a trip to see her perform there. Wacky, huh?

I know it costs a lot to do these things, though I did get some good deals. But I have to say that I cannot think of a better way to spend money, short of life saving surgery, than to take myself and children to a place away from pain and rejection, stimulating and educational and fun and to create memories of a family that was, and can always be, Happy with or without every single member there.

A short trip away could work wonders with your sitch I think. Even if you can't do it now, could you plan one together? And if not a trip to a whole new environment, then see a LIVE show (I'm really into theater) or a fun movie. Live theater occupies an audience more than films do generally, so for a few hours, the girls won't really be able to think of their missing mom. Even decide you'll watch non-stop comedies, adventure films, Meryl Streep or Woody Allen or James Bond, or whatever, and make the popcorn and open the sofa bed, or whatever. Do it.

You can manage something like this, creating a new tradition they'd like. Present the kids with 2 options (or 3 at most) about where to go or what to do. Don't burden them with decisions, but Get their buy in and feel excited about the planning of it.

I don't know your area so can't say about weather and skiing, or theater. But there are things that will not remind them of her more than briefly if at all. Also, if your w hears of it later and it's favorably presented... works wonders on the WAS... it isn't the goal of course, but it's a nice benefit. When our youngest d told h of the ski trip and how she had snow boarded and loved it...he missed out. That was that. Same goes for the older kids and I know it kills h to think he missed so much of their childhoods...

Now, d19 has some issues with h, still. But she is working on forgiving him and said so on "Father's Day" in her card to him. She told him he had hurt her deeply by leaving and choosing a job over spending her high school years at home with her. Believe me, I'd have died if I had gotten a card like that. And his choices were baffling to me. I have a career and cared a lot about it. But Christ, it's only a JOB...not a life...not a family... but d19 said she was "ready to let [him] into her life and heart again"...wow. I almost cried when I read it (h let me read it). H said something about what the job had cost him, although it seemed he was angry at the "heroes" he had worshipped and believed, rather than himself. H has made some interesting choices the past 8 months about family that are better.

But I digress. Just wanted to suggest the alternative holiday traditions for your kids. Don't let this be the Christmas that "sucked". Let it be the Christmas that you guys went to "X", or did "X", and had a good time. Otherwise you are teaching them that their happiness depends on someone other than themself. Remember they are watching you and you have to model how it is, to be deeply hurt but to heal and move forward. And forgiveness is damn hard. I defended h to the kids saying "h is confused" and once, d19 said "no he's not confused...he's just selfish"...ouch. I still struggle with forgiveness. It's like pregnancy, we conceive it but it takes time to give birth to it I think.

And We all wonder what leaving, staying, divorcing, setting boundaries, punishing, does to our children. WE do, the ones with the kids IN the M, do at least. Someone has to.

Also, your youngest may benefit from what my DB coach said to tell her when she asked about divorce. She worried mostly about who'd take care of her AND whether we'd have to move. I'd say that "I hope we don't divorce, b/c I have loved your dad for decades...but the main thing is that I'll do whatever I think will make you happiest in the long run..." I spoke about what would NOT change in her life, no matter where her father lived. By telling her that her happiness was my priority, she seemed comforted. She did remind me of that later, when we were in Alaska and she didn't like it. She wanted to return here, and we did, on her birthday. For lots of reasons.

You have to convince, or show your kids that life is still good. Honestly, their mom could have been killed in a car accident and would you tell them, "yes, the holidays will suck from now on, as will life..." ? Of course not.

You are in a good place LD, you just have to get your kids there too.
j-

[LonelyD]

Oh yeah, you are right on target with the holidays. Certain things have already changed to spice things up and be "different". My older D now has Xmas Eve where we used to. It is a bit of a jaunt, but its exciting to go to someone else's house for a change. D did it for me mostly.

I have D21 staying over because int he morning it will just be the 3 of us, me, D17 and D21. I am cooking breakfast and my son, his fiance and my grandson will be stopping by on the way to her mom's.

I have D17 wrapping presents for me and gave her a couple of bucks to go shopping last night for her mother. the joke last night was "Are you going to ask your mother for money to buy me a Xmas present?" Let me tell you we all got a big laugh out of that. There are serious changes obviously, that we will go through, we will have new traditions and I am leting my kids pick one tradition they want to start this year. that tradition will then be present until whenever. that way, the Xmas time and feel will have their respective personalities in it. trust me , my kids are like that.

W is gong to see things this Xmas eve that will set her back, worse than Thanksgiving. Not intentional, but things and traditions she had started to last forever are now dead and gone forever. I loved Xmas Eve at my house, but I usually got feeling good. It will feel good this year to be on my game. I have done well in the presents department. I have kept to my budget and I am only off by about $50.

change is never easy whether it is at business or personal. But change is imminent. My D17 wasn't into it, the new furniture, the getting closer, wrapping presents for me today, making cupcakes to take with us to her sister's. she is definitely getting into it becasue she sees me getting into it. She knows I am in a lot of pain, but I smile and I laugh, I call her peanut now for absolutely no reason. She smiles when I cal her that. I am actually excited to see my W. I really am. Thought about her and asked Him again to watch her and help me forgive. Overslept, damn....

Side note for everyone, went over her BFs house last night. We are close also and I haven't really sat and visited with them since this whole thing went into the crapper. So I went over and we talked for about 3 hours. We did not talk about the sitch at all. this is a concversation I get into with no one. Again, I have a theory on opinions. Anyway, after the hello's was "How was your soiree?" I asked what she was talking about, she said " The dance date you went on?" I said it was fun, she got there late. I was busy talking with someone else and enjotying myself. I said Hi to her and we talked. But thats it. "Why?" She said my D17 as going on and on about my date coming up a couple of weeks back. W was present. I know D17 did it to get to her Mom. She is trying to get her mother jealous. I know this. Yes it was kind of going to be a date. But again, I got the Word from Him, that is not the path He has chosen, I need to politiely discontinue these efforts, move my wedding ring and keep to me. That is exactly what happened. I did not tell my W's BF that. She was very interested in my "date" she said it is a difficult thing to hear, that "D" word. I sadi divorce she said know, Date. I immediately knew why she was interested. It apparently slapped the W when she heard this. then the week that folowed I planted the kiss on her. I am sure her head was spinning with that mess.

It was a great visit i drank coffeee after many offers for beer, wine a drink....Talked about my plans for the house, projects, my new furniture, Xmas shopping, my camper....All the things I am doing. W was not mentioned. But I am am sure there was enough said to get back to her. especially about the "DAte". I do not wish to play that type of card. It definitely had an impact on W though, otherwise the BF never would have mentioned it. And it was the very first thing that was mentioned, from over a week and a half ago. Apparently D17 brags about me like crazy when she is over there with her mother. Nice to know.

Anyway, things are going good, didn't finish my shopping, visited with these friends last night. D17 is wrapping most of the presents today, I will finish my shopping at lunchtime. I will have all my stuff wrapped r at least ready to wrap tonight. My son and I will move the couch from my office and get all that squared away tonight. I hate to ask this but I think you all knew it was coming, Any thoughts on what my W was thinking when she heard I was going on a date? I know no one can absoutely for sure say what was going through her mind, but when I had mentioned that I needed to kiss her last week, I didn't knw why. Now i do, she thought I was out with someone else, moved on, didn't want her and then she gets a kiss. She sounded very sad on the phone yesterday...Just wondering if the jealousy thing does anything. I honestly think it would work against the sitch, so I don't play it. And since I am definitely not looking at any level...Well....

[25yearsmlc]

LD,

yes the fake OW, jealousy and pseudo dating is a dangerous game I guess. But then again, whatever works! But play it well my friend. If you're too obvious about it, you'll lose. However, I have seen couples get back together b/c the WAS "forgot" that the LBSer might NOT WAIT forever, or be hanging around for scraps of time, and sometimes the idiot WAS can only see what a great catch they have, when they're hit over the head with "what? OP wants LBSer??" hammer to "get it."

As long as your w doesn't think you've set a wedding date with OW, what's wrong with a little mystery? You seem to be playing it down, which is great and discreet, and exactly what a good guy would do. Your w's response was NOT the one to fear, which is indifference. She cared...she must have.

Now, maybe you fear that she'll use this as an excuse for her own behavior, hmmm, I don't buy it. She knows what came first and at some level, she knows the risk she took. I also don't buy the idea that she'll be able to say "well if you really cared about me, you would be waiting alone, for me to figure everything out..." that's a game of selfishness that many WAS try to play but not overtly as it is too unfair and openly so even for them.

Have you read "The Five Love Languaged" by Chapman? It might do you a world of good in understanding your w and marriage and yourself for that matter.

It's rare for a WAS to believe that they are justified in their actions b/c of a new person noticing your positive attributes b/c it makes no sense. If you are a jerk, why would OW want you? NOW there is an exception for anger. If you react angrily now, no matter how justified, it often serves as the 'proof" about what a jerk you were/are and therefore how 'right' she was to go off.... But OW noticing you?? If anything, it undermines their theory of you being a jerk. As I note below, it also suggests the possibility that their data about you was flawed, as rationalizations often are, OR that you've actually changed...

I mean, whatever rationalizations/justifications your w had when she began to see OM, she had before you went on your semi-date. Seems to me that the fact other women find you attractive, or intriguing, means your wife's rationalizations might not have been accurate. OR maybe you've changed. That is often the best realistic scenario. Let's say your w had some halfway good reasons for feeling unloved or poorly treated. If I recall, you said drinking was something you're now avoiding. So you ARE improving. Your w may have had some validity to her feelings, but the thing is, that issue is NOT relevant now with the NEW IMPROVED YOU... other women noticing you, your w's bf commenting and passing it on in some form, well, it is a gamble but if I were a betting woman, so far, I'd say you are doing fine.

You do have to behave with honor, and respect for the mother of your children and you are as far as I can tell. I'm curious about the ring wearing though. Is that for your d's benefit? Is the w actually openly living with OM? That matters to me, although I'm not able to articulate exactly how or why.

I mean, what about shutting the door, not looking back (but not locking the door) and moving forward with your family, sans mama, for now? But my own case with h, I THINK the trips were most striking to him, since he knew he was the outsider and it was no one's fault but his. He did note a man had called me asking me to go to a show (not a date, but a colleague, but why tell h that? None of his business at the time....) and did Not seem UNconcerned. But he also knew He had risked the marriage, as your w has. He admitted that. (BTW, so you know that they don't always recall well, especially if your w is MLCing, as she may be, my h does NOT recall saying "I'm willing to take that chance" when asked if he realized our M was endangered by his choices. I know when he said it and where I was standing...but he is blank on it. wth? MLCers are not rational at times and you MUST accept this. Otherwise you'll need crazy pills. Has anyone told you the classic response for MLCers? It's "IGNORE EVERYTHING THEY SAY AND HALF OF WHAT THEY DO" and definitely ignore alien spew which is what they'll do when they revise the marital history to suit their present day choices.

At some points, my h did own up to damaging the family and his R's with the kids, but then would retreat defensively if I did anything that suggested agreement with his assessment. I suspect the guilt gets to them and they can only handle brief periods of real awareness and then they have to change the subject. Wouldn't we all? For us, It's like discovering you ran over your kid backing up the car, and who'd want to focus on that? Better to shrug it off and move on...

Your holiday sounds great. Glad to hear of the new traditions and the ones that are not old but will be different this year, & LIVE ON anyhow!!

Life does not revolve around what your w may be doing/feeling/thinking. And trust me, unless she hates her own kids, she cannot feel "happy" this year. She may have to lash out at you, b/c of her pain and the defensiveness it'll necessarily bring out in her. Recall the 'car rolling over your own kid' analogy--eventually, if they feel it's being thrown in their face--even if by themselves--they'll blame YOU for not telling them the baby was in the road, or the brakes weren't working right, etc. Anything to avoid the responsibility for their pain, and the pain they've inflicted on their own family. Comes out big at this time of year. '

Stay calm in the face of the storm. No matter what she says or does, be strong and calm. And for your children, be happy. It's Christmas. Your children are near you, they love you, and see you sober and healing, and growing in contentment, loving and being lovable. Of the things you have any control over, What else really matters?
Take care,
j-

[LonelyD]

Yeah I don't overexxagerate anything with OW. It was dancing anyway, not a date date. but whatever. I am absolutely in line with you. Yes I do the classis, believe nothing and half of what I see. She was at my house last night, new I'd be alone, too. She needed to get into our safe. My son showed up and went into my room to talk to her. she was getting checks for the joint accoutnm. No money in there. I believe she is getting money from her Dad tonight to put in to cover checks. I asked her about the casr insurance money and she told me she doesn't ahve any can't buy xmas presents, nothing. I said nothing to her after that regarding the insurance. She asked if there was another key to get into my room, I told her no. She was getting some jewelry out of her jewelry case. Most likely xmas presents. She also took a bin of pictures that she wanted to go through for her Dad. Pics are all a year and older. I was talking to older D when she came in and I was laughing and joking on the hone with her. She asked who came in and I told her. she said, what is she doing there? W heard her...

She was going thru the kitchen cabinets and I asked what she was looking for. She said nothing. I said then why are you going thru the cabilnets? She stopped. Looks rough. she told her mother that she just wanted to sleep thru the holidays. Its too tough on her. Like this is a cake walk for the rest of us.

I went to bed l;ast night and asked Him why she came over? What was the purpose? to get checks so she can go shopping and bounce them all over the place? She has always played that game, write the checks and try to get money in the acct before the checks are posted. I asked why she took the pics? I asked why she hung around? I asked a lot of things...I on't remember getting answers, but I slept great and woke up calm...

It must have kille dher to see all the presents under the tree and the bags of stuff still unwrapped in my room. Hey, I have been saving since October, not out drinking and partying...I paid cash for it all....

I am still in my good place...God bless you all, have a wonderful Christmas..

[LonelyD]

She is spending every other weekend over his place (his parents baasement). Everyone knows this...The ring is because I He wanted it back on that finger. I believe it and I moved it.

I feel very good, she upset me seeing her last night. For three reasons, 1. Coming into the house and going thru things, for no apparent reason, 2. She looks terrible and I do feel bad for her 3. My time, my house...Don't be there when I am there...End of story. Got in a better mood with my kids and my grandson.

I really don't know what she thinks, I care , but it doesn't bother me that I don't. I have strong feelings for her, I love her like crazy, but I realize I need to stand back...This needs to roll itself out. It just boggles the miond that she would piss away all the years we had together looking for happiness, finding nothing but misery adn unhappiness, why wouldn't she start looking back....?