Making my own good karma!!

[Silent Chrleader]

Thank you, ((GG)), for your warm encouragement. It is very much appreciated today.

I got a call from my boss today (I am home from work snowed in) that a co-worker of mine committed suicide this past weekend. He was our IT director, and he came in the office sometime over the weekend and put a bag over his head. One of our other employees found him on the floor of their shared office this morning when he came in to work. This man was not someone I liked very much. He was always a pain to work with actually. Often treated people very condescendingly, especially women. I had several run-ins with him over the years. But, it was sort of a joke that when you get him out of the office environment, like at company parties, he was actually fun! He has a beautiful 2 year old son who has more personality than any kid I've ever seen (and I've seen a lot!). When he brought his boy into the office you could tell that that boy adored his dad and the feeling was mutual. My boss, who spent time with this man and his wife socially, says that there was tension at home and his wife was always pushing him to make more money and such. They had just finished moving into their dream home that they built on Mercer Island. It's all so very very sad!!

I called my H with this news. H was very sweet and supportive. I told him I didn't know why this was hitting me so bad, when it's not like he was such a close friend or anything. H, who is often very un-emotional about things like this, was actually very sympathetic. I told him that I had had a lot of depression lately, and even had suicidal thoughts, but I always knew that this was just the symptoms of depression and that it would pass and that I could never really consider doing it. H said he was very glad that I would never consider it, and that it was just the emotion in the moment as we go through this difficult stuff. I thanked him for being there for me and listening and he said "No trouble at all, Babe." That's the first time that he's called me "Babe" in quite a while.

I wanted so much to tell him that I love him. But I didn't.....

[Silent Chrleader]

Went and signed the lease on my new apartment. H has basically said I can have any of the furniture I want, and he is going to help me move in and get the TV and computer hooked up. He's really been very supportive and accomodating the past week. I know he feels guilty, but I don't want his guilt. I want his motivation to work on our M. But, he has to find that with-in himself.

Our D24 sent him a very scathing e-mail and link to her "blog page" where she has posted some absolutely venomous feelings toward H. She and her dad have always had issues, and it breaks my heart to see it because I love them both. They both have drawn lines in the sand and expect the other to make the first step to set things right. Both so stubborn, and neither one able to give voice to their emotions. D24 is high functioning autistic, so she has an excuse for her difficulty. H's only excuse is that he is a DAM. D24 also said some nasty stuff about OW, and even referred to her kid as "demon spawn brat". (another sympton of HFA is the gradiose colorful wording).

Needless to say, H was very angry (and underneath very hurt) by this behavior from D24. In our discussion regarding this and other stuff about S17, H said "This is why you are all better off without me!" I replied "Well, that just makes it all easy for you if you believe that, doesn't it?". Anyway, I called and took D24 to task on this issue and told her she owed us all an apology (S17 is very angry that she did this too, feels she "betrayed the family"), and did the mom guilt thing of reminding her of all the things H has done for her in her life (and there are many). I also told her that saying anything about OW's child was WAY out of line and complete BS. That's an innocent child!!! I told her that we would all be better off in this family if everyone just accepted responsibility for their own happiness and stopped blaming everyone else! I then called H back and told him that I had told her this, and he said that I made a very good point! (I hope this meant that he saw the correlation to his own recent behavior too......)

I feel like I am finally getting somewhat of a handle on my life. I see the pain my H is in and the struggle he goes through and frustration he feels, but I am now able to see it but not internalize it to some extent. I think that being in a new place all my own is a very good growth step for me and I am looking forward to it.

My feeling and desires have not changed though. I love my H with all my heart and I believe that inside him is a good man who genuinely wants to have a fulfilling relationship and is capable of having one. I hope that he comes around to realize that himself one day AND is willing to entertain the idea of building that relationship with me!! I don't want to believe that he never loved me like he has said, or that it can't be re-built. Maybe I'm in denial. I hope not! But, I think that I am getting closer to the belief that I will be OK even without him. I've always known intellectually I would be OK. It's getting my heart to believe it that's been and continues to be the battle. But, I think I am making progress.....

[yellowrose]

SC

Well said!! You are making progress! There will be set backs but each timeou have them you will bounce back quicker. Keep the PMA going.

I know it hurts what the kids are saying but IMO it is important for your H to hear what they are feeling.

I hope you have wonderful holidays even in these circumstances.

Y

[Silent Chrleader]

Thank you for stopping by, {{{{{{YR}}}}}}.

I am disappointed that we are not going to have the Christmas up at the dream house like we had planned for the last 6 months, but I am OK that I, and S17, will be with family at my mom's house. H will be at the senior community where he works giving a hand with the festivities there. So, it's all good.

[yellowrose]

SC

I understand your disappointment but you are going to make it through this. I feel it! Having family close is great. Try to enjoy!

Y

[Silent Chrleader]

If you "feel it", then it must be so, because you are a remarably wise woman!!

I'll try to remember that the next time I'm at a low point!

Merry Christmas, YR!

[25yearsmlc]

SC,
you asked my to stop by and I've read some of your posts. I'm a little unclear as to the origin of the sitch. Your h had an A of some sort, (one night, whatever) BUT he moved out OR you've moved out or both?

So, you are living apart. Your h was living the single life and maybe still is, AND shared that desire to sow some wild oats, with YOUR SON...and confided his adultery and then asked your son to join him in deceiving you and hiding it from you. And as he is not living at home, in effect he has left you AND s17. Correct so far? Now, I'm not trying dig up old wounds, just getting the history.

Your h also said some other things to your son. SOME of what he told your son IS true, such as the A and going to bars, etc. Maybe the other things, like future plans of staying single are also true? He also said the mc was not something he was sincere about? Why don't you believe this?

Your c won't confront your h but wants you to do so, AND says your h has not opened up much with c. Get a new c. Or don't bother bringing your h as he's only going through the motions and for the life of me, any c who hasn't made some sort of break through within 6 sessions is no longer treating within the standards they use here. I don't mean necessarily big changes, but something that shows you are heading in A direction.

Are YOU getting much out of it? I went to 4 or 5 diff t's and c's, liked them all, but h didn't like the answers they gave so he stopped going. That was telling. I found the DB books and finally a DB coach and it was actually cheaper to buy 3 sessions with a DB coach who gave specific advice for me to follow, than to keep going weekly to someone my h either disliked or who just listened and nodded, or said "get a D", it's over, etc.

One c that my h did like was a DB type counselor I found nearby. Also of great help. I highly recommend them. But this was after a few years and only after h felt he was losing me and our kids. His R's with them are healing, but he admits his choices "cost him dearly"... wish he'd said cost THEM dearly, but he may have felt that too. I won't over think on that. H loves the kids and wants to be admired. It's harder to admire a guy when he screws up so badly and tells your son. But alcoholics who get sober make amends and "man up" often quite well, with a lot of integrity born of humility and faith and inner strength. It can happen.

I'm mainly troubled by what your M is doing to your kids. What it teaches your S about women and you. You made the speech in November, you said a lot of things that are not all against DB principles, I thought you were spot on some points. BUT then you didn't enforce or live by your words. In November you confronted him and then...nothing. Oh, fwiw, drop the whole "Test the slut for STD" routine. It looks vindictive and changes nothing! Get tested yourself....I mean, why give her that weirdo power? To make her look slutty to your h? Oh, sure I see that...and so does he...

Believe you are worth more than this and act on it. You know, you can move on and shut a door and not look back and GAL!!! Dosen't mean it'll all be over forever with h. Your h knows you well enough that IF he thought he was losing you, and IF he wanted to reconcile with you, he'd find you and break down the door and try to win you back. DO NOT TELL HIM THIS... have some mystery though, and soon.

But it's obvious to HIM anyhow (and your son and daughter) that you are waiting around for him and lapping up any verbal scraps he throws your way. THis is teaching your children that someone else can determine whether they are allowed to be happy. Am I to understand also that
You've risked your nest egg to subsidize a life style for him which hurts you AND YOUR SON? Your h has or has not kept his word on these matters? That isn't okay. You did this based on your h's word that he'd sell the dream house later on....??? Honey, you need a L even if you DO stay m. Sorry.

I know it's Christmas time and I don't want to hammer you too much. But for SOME Ms to survive, they have to end and start over. I've seen it twice in my own family and heard of it in others.

It takes a real break and "freedom" to see the truth sometimes. Maybe you'll have moved on and maybe not. My sister's exh left her after 22 years and 3 kids and broke her heart. He had been half way out the door emotionally for awhile, though once they'd had a deep connection. She really loved him deeply. But she had no choice but to move on. She met a good guy and a month before her remarriage, her ex called to say he'd been wrong, and make a mistake and "F-----" up, etc. He understood when she said, "Thanks, but no thanks" and she told me now that she is in a M where IT is the priority, she'd never go back to what she had with her ex. Granted, kids got hurt and that sucks. But if her ex had never left her, her kids would never have seen a successful loving M either. Her ex did her a favor. MAYBE, your h is indirectly doing the same. I don't have all the answers but please tell me one significant action your h has taken that shows commitment. If you can't do that, there's your answer---which is NOT to say to divorce him but to say that you don't see those signs so you have to act as if you are to find happiness w/o h.

Please protect your assets and stop fearing that if you set and enforce a healthy boundary that you will "set your h off". That's rotten to let fears of him cost you AND YOUR SON financial security and besides being a doormat never brought a man home either. BEsides, what will your h do? Leave you? Oh wait, he already has....

I dont' know why some MLCers come back and some don't. I DO know that the ones who DO come back, invariably saw real changes and 180's and GAL in the LBSer. And we, the LBSer cannot GAL BECAUSE of the WAS or to get them back. It's just the opposite, though it does seem ironic that it is also what is most likely to get their attention.

Enough R talk. I would NOT EVER initiate R talk with your h again, as long as you live apart. LET HIM do that, and btw, his silence IS not confusing, it's just cowardly.

Expect NOTHING from this man but decent courtesy and whatever the courts require of him. Stop trying to fix the R's with the kids and don't burden them anymore with your pain. Your d24, in my opinion, had totally normal feelings of anger and betrayal and then you chewed her out, in reality, why? Wasn't it to gain points with your h, don't you think? I mean, I do agree that there's an innocent kid out there who doesn't need public bashing, but other than that, why chew out your D for defending you and expressing her anger?

IS it that It made your h mad and you were afraid he'd get mad at you so you blamed HER?... Why were YOU involved in this at all?
Okay, the statement about each person taking responsibility for their happiness was interesting, you wanted your h to "get it". But Do you?

Be the author of your life's novel, as I say often around here. You are letting your h write too many chapters of your life and that is not his job. The comment about disrespecting you, which your SON made to you re: your h...was tragic. You must combat that. Not with punitive measures, but healthy protective measures.

Yes yes, there's a fine line between them, I know. But find that fine line and walk it. You ARE being taken advantage of and though baby steps are nice to see, they're meaningless if not followed by ACTION, at SOME point and a real recommitment. I don't know what to make of living apart and still seeing a c, without any changes and who admits he cannot get your h to open up....what are you waiting for? IF YoU are getting something out of it, then by all means keep going. But your c cannot fix your h and your h may not even be doing this except to check it off his list of how "he tried" to make it work, blah blah blah.

BTW, I could not "reach" my h for a few years, either and neither could ANY c until h was ready and that only happened after he had felt the loss of his family. I was moving on and getting happier about it. H had to overcome some things for me to trust him, not making him eat crow but come on, of COURSE some changes are needed or why would we set ourselves up again? your h isn't making the real ones though. Like vowing to keep vows and coming home, and NEVER telling your son anything like that crap again. THAT alone freaks me out and is a new one for me to hear.
He had ZERO self awareness of being a good father or loyal h. It was disrespectful but NO, I don't think it's worth discussing now as you've said your peace. No need to repeat yourself. And he did apologize...

Getting a life and a PMA about your life WITHOUT your h is clearly your first course of action, (and protecting your assets). MAybe he'll see the light and maybe he won't. But you MUST be happy again, in front of them and your h at least, and model that for your son and D, or when they face their own heartaches, they'll be devastated beyond repair. Teach them that this is NOT fatal or eternal and only WE determine our happiness. Prove it, don't just say it. And dont' bother telling your h any of this. He can't hear you. He'll notice what you DO, not what you say, unless it's nasty and then it'll validate his bad feelings.
If he is rewriting the marital history like most WAS do, then say "sorry you feel that way, but that's not how I remember it" and CONTRAST TODAY'S family life with the negative image he's trying to hammer into his head as justification for leaving.

At home, where he does NOT choose to live, there are fun things going on with people who love him, who are doing interesting things with exciting people but make sure YOU are LIVING WELL so your h can "get" that he is the loser here. If he says you are an anxious person, do a 180 and DO NOT CALL HIM in your panic attacks. Get meds or call someone else. That'd be a 180 for you. And you have to face those moments alone someday anyhow as he will not always be there for you anyhow, he could die, and furthermore, it'll add to the burden your son already feels for your happiness. Sons don't make good husband substitutes, although they can take the trash out.

Again, protect yourself. And your son/daughter. Just b/c she's 24 does NOT make this hurt less. Their pain is real and understandable and get out of the way of their R's with your h. Let life give your h the consequences of his behavior without you chiming in to help enable, and maybe get some of his gratitude, or obstructing his R"s with them which will make you look vindictive. Just back off on that. LEt each party speak for themself and say NOTHING about it.
Tell them to talk to each other, not you. I am not saying to file for D or that all hope is lost. I'm saying protect yourself, and finally, I know this hurts. But

By GAL and moving forward, you will become a woman only a fool would leave. If your h is a fool, then you are better off in the long run without him. And so is your son.

good luck and have a peace filled holiday with a new fun tradition with your children and have zero expectations of your h. If you see him, that's nice. If not, so what? No expectations means no disappointment...make sense?
j-

[25yearsmlc]

SC,
you asked my to stop by and I've read some of your posts. I'm a little unclear as to the origin of the sitch. Your h had an A of some sort, (one night, whatever) BUT he moved out OR you've moved out or both?

So, you are living apart. Your h was living the single life and maybe still is, AND shared that desire to sow some wild oats, with YOUR SON...and confided his adultery and then asked your son to join him in deceiving you and hiding it from you. And as he is not living at home, in effect he has left you AND s17. Correct so far? Now, I'm not trying dig up old wounds, just getting the history.

Your h also said some other things to your son. SOME of what he told your son IS true, such as the A and going to bars, etc. Maybe the other things, like future plans of staying single are also true? He also said the mc was not something he was sincere about? Why don't you believe this?

Your c won't confront your h but wants you to do so, AND says your h has not opened up much with c. Get a new c. Or don't bother bringing your h as he's only going through the motions and for the life of me, any c who hasn't made some sort of break through within 6 sessions is no longer treating within the standards they use here. I don't mean necessarily big changes, but something that shows you are heading in A direction.

Are YOU getting much out of it? I went to 4 or 5 diff t's and c's, liked them all, but h didn't like the answers they gave so he stopped going. That was telling. I found the DB books and finally a DB coach and it was actually cheaper to buy 3 sessions with a DB coach who gave specific advice for me to follow, than to keep going weekly to someone my h either disliked or who just listened and nodded, or said "get a D", it's over, etc.

One c that my h did like was a DB type counselor I found nearby. Also of great help. I highly recommend them. But this was after a few years and only after h felt he was losing me and our kids. His R's with them are healing, but he admits his choices "cost him dearly"... wish he'd said cost THEM dearly, but he may have felt that too. I won't over think on that. H loves the kids and wants to be admired. It's harder to admire a guy when he screws up so badly and tells your son. But alcoholics who get sober make amends and "man up" often quite well, with a lot of integrity born of humility and faith and inner strength. It can happen.

I'm mainly troubled by what your M is doing to your kids. What it teaches your S about women and you. You made the speech in November, you said a lot of things that are not all against DB principles, I thought you were spot on some points. BUT then you didn't enforce or live by your words. In November you confronted him and then...nothing. Oh, fwiw, drop the whole "Test the slut for STD" routine. It looks vindictive and changes nothing! Get tested yourself....I mean, why give her that weirdo power? To make her look slutty to your h? Oh, sure I see that...and so does he...

Believe you are worth more than this and act on it. You know, you can move on and shut a door and not look back and GAL!!! Dosen't mean it'll all be over forever with h. Your h knows you well enough that IF he thought he was losing you, and IF he wanted to reconcile with you, he'd find you and break down the door and try to win you back. DO NOT TELL HIM THIS... have some mystery though, and soon.

But it's obvious to HIM anyhow (and your son and daughter) that you are waiting around for him and lapping up any verbal scraps he throws your way. THis is teaching your children that someone else can determine whether they are allowed to be happy. Am I to understand also that
You've risked your nest egg to subsidize a life style for him which hurts you AND YOUR SON? Your h has or has not kept his word on these matters? That isn't okay. You did this based on your h's word that he'd sell the dream house later on....??? Honey, you need a L even if you DO stay m. Sorry.

I know it's Christmas time and I don't want to hammer you too much. But for SOME Ms to survive, they have to end and start over. I've seen it twice in my own family and heard of it in others.

It takes a real break and "freedom" to see the truth sometimes. Maybe you'll have moved on and maybe not. My sister's exh left her after 22 years and 3 kids and broke her heart. He had been half way out the door emotionally for awhile, though once they'd had a deep connection. She really loved him deeply. But she had no choice but to move on. She met a good guy and a month before her remarriage, her ex called to say he'd been wrong, and make a mistake and "F-----" up, etc. He understood when she said, "Thanks, but no thanks" and she told me now that she is in a M where IT is the priority, she'd never go back to what she had with her ex. Granted, kids got hurt and that sucks. But if her ex had never left her, her kids would never have seen a successful loving M either. Her ex did her a favor. MAYBE, your h is indirectly doing the same. I don't have all the answers but please tell me one significant action your h has taken that shows commitment. If you can't do that, there's your answer---which is NOT to say to divorce him but to say that you don't see those signs so you have to act as if you are to find happiness w/o h.

Please protect your assets and stop fearing that if you set and enforce a healthy boundary that you will "set your h off". That's rotten to let fears of him cost you AND YOUR SON financial security and besides being a doormat never brought a man home either. BEsides, what will your h do? Leave you? Oh wait, he already has....

I dont' know why some MLCers come back and some don't. I DO know that the ones who DO come back, invariably saw real changes and 180's and GAL in the LBSer. And we, the LBSer cannot GAL BECAUSE of the WAS or to get them back. It's just the opposite, though it does seem ironic that it is also what is most likely to get their attention.

Enough R talk. I would NOT EVER initiate R talk with your h again, as long as you live apart. LET HIM do that, and btw, his silence IS not confusing, it's just cowardly.

Expect NOTHING from this man but decent courtesy and whatever the courts require of him. Stop trying to fix the R's with the kids and don't burden them anymore with your pain. Your d24, in my opinion, had totally normal feelings of anger and betrayal and then you chewed her out, in reality, why? Wasn't it to gain points with your h, don't you think? I mean, I do agree that there's an innocent kid out there who doesn't need public bashing, but other than that, why chew out your D for defending you and expressing her anger?

IS it that It made your h mad and you were afraid he'd get mad at you so you blamed HER?... Why were YOU involved in this at all?
Okay, the statement about each person taking responsibility for their happiness was interesting, you wanted your h to "get it". But Do you?

Be the author of your life's novel, as I say often around here. You are letting your h write too many chapters of your life and that is not his job. The comment about disrespecting you, which your SON made to you re: your h...was tragic. You must combat that. Not with punitive measures, but healthy protective measures.

Yes yes, there's a fine line between them, I know. But find that fine line and walk it. You ARE being taken advantage of and though baby steps are nice to see, they're meaningless if not followed by ACTION, at SOME point and a real recommitment. I don't know what to make of living apart and still seeing a c, without any changes and who admits he cannot get your h to open up....what are you waiting for? IF YoU are getting something out of it, then by all means keep going. But your c cannot fix your h and your h may not even be doing this except to check it off his list of how "he tried" to make it work, blah blah blah.

BTW, I could not "reach" my h for a few years, either and neither could ANY c until h was ready and that only happened after he had felt the loss of his family. I was moving on and getting happier about it. H had to overcome some things for me to trust him, not making him eat crow but come on, of COURSE some changes are needed or why would we set ourselves up again? your h isn't making the real ones though. Like vowing to keep vows and coming home, and NEVER telling your son anything like that crap again. THAT alone freaks me out and is a new one for me to hear.
He had ZERO self awareness of being a good father or loyal h. It was disrespectful but NO, I don't think it's worth discussing now as you've said your peace. No need to repeat yourself. And he did apologize...

Getting a life and a PMA about your life WITHOUT your h is clearly your first course of action, (and protecting your assets). MAybe he'll see the light and maybe he won't. But you MUST be happy again, in front of them and your h at least, and model that for your son and D, or when they face their own heartaches, they'll be devastated beyond repair. Teach them that this is NOT fatal or eternal and only WE determine our happiness. Prove it, don't just say it. And dont' bother telling your h any of this. He can't hear you. He'll notice what you DO, not what you say, unless it's nasty and then it'll validate his bad feelings.
If he is rewriting the marital history like most WAS do, then say "sorry you feel that way, but that's not how I remember it" and CONTRAST TODAY'S family life with the negative image he's trying to hammer into his head as justification for leaving.

At home, where he does NOT choose to live, there are fun things going on with people who love him, who are doing interesting things with exciting people but make sure YOU are LIVING WELL so your h can "get" that he is the loser here. If he says you are an anxious person, do a 180 and DO NOT CALL HIM in your panic attacks. Get meds or call someone else. That'd be a 180 for you. And you have to face those moments alone someday anyhow as he will not always be there for you anyhow, he could die, and furthermore, it'll add to the burden your son already feels for your happiness. Sons don't make good husband substitutes, although they can take the trash out.

Again, protect yourself. And your son/daughter. Just b/c she's 24 does NOT make this hurt less. Their pain is real and understandable and get out of the way of their R's with your h. Let life give your h the consequences of his behavior without you chiming in to help enable, and maybe get some of his gratitude, or obstructing his R"s with them which will make you look vindictive. Just back off on that. LEt each party speak for themself and say NOTHING about it.
Tell them to talk to each other, not you. I am not saying to file for D or that all hope is lost. I'm saying protect yourself, and finally, I know this hurts. But

By GAL and moving forward, you will become a woman only a fool would leave. If your h is a fool, then you are better off in the long run without him. And so is your son.

good luck and have a peace filled holiday with a new fun tradition with your children and have zero expectations of your h. If you see him, that's nice. If not, so what? No expectations means no disappointment...make sense?
j-

[glamgirl]

Hang in there SC. I hope you have a Wonderful Christmas.

[ThinkingItThru]

SC,

Seems like so much of your situation mirrors mine. Did you say that you waited a year before truely deciding to move on? I'm at 6 months now and I've set a timeline for another 6 months before I take action, so I guess it is about the same.

It is difficult when they won't respond. My H won't even talk about it, much less go to MC. Everything at home is pleasant as long as we don't talk about anything.

I think I saw a something on the boards here a while back about trying to talk to and reason with a rock. At some point you realize you're talking to a rock and expecting it to talk back. Thats where I'm at right now.

I've looked for you in the alt world, but couldn't find you. You say your name is the same?