Have no expectations whatso ever. Asked last night if doing that was in the plan. Yes. She has seen me dark to her, she has questioned it. Now she has seen my love for her is still there with that kiss. I now go on the way I was....
Xmas shoppign last night was fun. Picked out my new furniture, old couch broke and got a huge store credit. I was psyched....
The kiss was nice, tried to analyze it for about 5 minutes last night and decided, nah...It was nice, I wanted to do it, felt compelled to do it, so I did it...Probably won't interact with her again til Xmas Eve. She is supposed to ask her Dad for the car insurance money today. If he has it, I will pick it up tomorrow after cleaning up from the blizzard. Don't mind doing thatas I wanna finish Shopping anyway and will see some friend on the way home.
Can't believe I did it.....I'm with you, wonder what went on inside her head? Balls in her court, and I am in a good place....No expectations, just feel good getting another "what if" off my list.
Heading out at lunch to do some food shopping befor ethe storm hits. Very excited about my new furniture. Will do a little shopping at lunch for Xmas. Hoping it isn't too bad when I leave here tonight. I could get to the mall and finish it all tonight. Wrap all day Saturday , do some housework and unwind like a clock. Yep, very happy place.....
Hope you are having a great weekend! Let us know how you're doing!
Praising God Daily, Remaining "FaithfulH" Me: 62 W: 62 D:33 S:30 & 31 Married: 40 Years BD: Sep 2006 Piecing: May 2007 2nd BD: May 2014 Working On It: Today
Stiorm here Friday was very intense and repeated itself today. I wen tout Xmas shopping this morning, almost done. Need to pick up 3 things tomorrow on my way home from work. they are delivering my new couch tomorrow, very excited, although i have to shovel out that area now for them.
trying to get the ambition to maybe do some wrapping, feeling very drained. went to FIL yesterday after Xmas shopping and talked to him and his girlfriend. She is really good to talk to and basically is in line with everything I have learned and heard here. They feel so bad for me. We talked about a lot of things and I made the comment "Well she's happy in the path she has chosen". they both disagreed vehemently. They told me she is miserable, she looks miserable and mostly that's from the drinking. they feel she is drinking way too much. I told them that her life with OM must be what she wants right now, if it wasn't things would change for her. FIL GF disagrees. She reiterated the MLC stages, which I told her I had researched to death. and said that she just got to a point where she tried things she thought would make her happy probably over the last 2.5 years. None of it has worked. She said she needs to hit rock bottom before she will ever look to turn things around for herself. they were both glad to hear i attend church and asked how its been going. I told them very good, I have seen positive signs from Him and I have had negativity thrust at me from every angle. I continue on my path of Hope and my committments. FIL blames it all on the drinking. Its what mostly detroyed his, that and the physical abuse of MIL, which most often was brought on by the drinking. He is very hurt by this, and he told me so. His disappointment in his own daughter is enormous. He hopes if she comes back, that I can forgive her, that I can let her back into my heart. I told him that is a hard lesson I am learning now.
It was a good talk and I felt better, not upset, not emotional.
Church was good today, no crying, no meltdown. went straight from church to Xmas shopping due to the storm. I asked Him this morning, and I hate to even post I asked this, that He give me a sign from her. I told Him I understand He doesn't work that way, but told Him that I feel I have earned a sign for my efforts. I slept so-so last night. Asked Him to look out for her. I feel she may be getting to a point of depression and that she will need someone to watch over her during that time.
Firday I had my youngest Grandson. My D17 had called and said she was sleeping at her girlfriends house. I would be all alone during the storm. That doesn't bother me. I told God, I didn't want to be alone, that i need someone, anyone to keep my heart going. My son called and asked if I could wathc his son for the nigth as they were doing some work on their apartemtn. told him to bring him by. We had a blast. He is so much fun and loves me dearly. I thanked God as we went to be for that. Saturday was Xmas shopping and the FIL. sunday church, Xmas shopping and some errands. Trying to relax, feel guilty. House needs to be cleaned, shoveling needs to be done and presents to be wrapped.
Oh by the way, the mass today was about the house of David. I had posted about my cousin who I haven't spoke with in years just married a man named David, both her sisters are married to Davids, one I knew about the other I didn't, and my gay friends new man is named David. You can guess what the D in LonelyD is....
I have been speaking to HIm more and more regularly now. I did ask to help me continue my strength and my path. I believe i can forgive, i believe the lesson here is to start forgiving her now, not when her physical presence reutrns, if ti returns. People who are very close to us, the closest to us, have all indicated that she wil be back, my questions would be how do they know? Again, as AmyC had told me, they are telling me thngs i want to hear to make me feel better. But on the flip side to that, why build up a false hjpe that would crush me? I always thank them for that and ask them to pray to that end. I continue on with little to no expecatations about anything from her. Once th eOM is gone, my mindset will change most likely. But until then, I am learning this lesson. It is a hard pill to swallow and I do find myself fl;ying off the handle lately. I always apologize after. I believe He wants me to get this lesson over with. I can't tell you why, but there is a feeling I have that this lesson needs to get accomplished now. I feel very at home in church and will attend Xmas day. I will see W on Xmas Eve at my old D's house. FIL and his GF made me promise no drinking around her, told them that was no problem and a no brainer. FIL's GF told me when FIL was out of the room that on Thnaksgiving she felt W really was battling over her feeling s for me. The way she stared at me while I played with my grandson, the way she called me hon... she said I did the best and only thing I should have done, politely ignore her. She asked me if it hurts me to do this, and I told her it does, only because of the pity I have for her, not for me. She told me to do the same on Xmas Eve, which I will and at there house on Xmas day as well. FIL and GF say that what we had was true love, and FIL has known me for a long time. He said there was never any doubt in anyone's mind that you two were the most in love of anyone, that cannot be pushed aside. GF also told me that even though 4.5 - 5 months seems like an eternity to me, that in comparison to the 31 years together, its nothing. Use you time to kepp making your life better and easier. Because if and when she comes back, you won't have the time for yourself that you have now. Sound familiar Amy?
Anyway the thought of my first kiss with her back in high school and the one that just happened float through my head . there are images of a much bigger kiss, even where....His will is really strong in me now. I move throuugh my day pretty easily. Except now, because I wanna relax and instead I'm typing to you , my friends, and thinking about shoveling. I'll go do that I think just so its done and I can chill. I'll catch up to you all tomorrow. Love you all...
And God sent word to David that he need not supply the Lord with a better place to live, but to keep is own house in order. for it is there the Lord will be born and His house reign forever.
He wants me not to worry about doing these things for others right now. I am to keep my house (my being, mind and soul) in order. to keep it in the best possible way because things will happen that will happen. And my control over things must remain solid in order for everything to unfold. And when it does happen, the combination of my house being in order and the "happening" will be forever. I usually get the meaning of the masses as they pertain to me. This one just hit me. been wondering about it most of the day, now I get it.
It was from God's promise. I have just read the whole of it. My understanding of it is more in depth, but I now know the meaning at a higher level so disregard the previous post. How I had interpretted what I heard is a little different now that I have read it. His meaning to me is clear. I understand. It was interesting reading about David, the type of person he was and how he really didn't think that much of himself. He praised God so much and thanked him for all he had done and was always looking for ways to repay Him. God's response was to not have to repay Him, but know Him. Know his will and do His bidding. Me and David from the Bible had some in common.
When facing questions about what to do with WAS, about letting my h "face up to the costs of his choices...etc." My DB coach told me to "Let LIFE give the WAS/MLCer the consequences of their choices, not you. It's not your job to show them the consequences", much as you want to. She was right in my sitch and our case, but the fact is, some part of you is torn towards a variety of behaviors, one example being the cancelling of her health insurance either 1) to punish, and or 2) because you believe she deserves it, which is =1) TO PUNISH...same thing as saying "face the consequences of her choices" --- just semantics.
And as AmyC suggests, health insurance is different than other "benefits" as it literally can mean the diff between life and death. It also is illegal to do in some states, and no state's citizens want to get stuck with some big health care bill just b/c you wanted to show her a thing or two only to have her get very sick and then WE tax payers get to care for her....I mean, that's an angle to this to consider as well.
And you damn well better know two things before you decide to do it: what your real goal is and how it'll be furthered -- I mean, do you think taking her off the insurance will make her wake up and see you in a better light? It won't. It'll make her better able to justify leaving you, as this will be yet more "evidence" of what a jerk you are, sorry to say and, 2) how it'll look in court. If it isnt' legal, you're screwed and she might be too, if she gets sick. How will your family see that? Who would actually bear the burden of her care if you arent' there and no insurance is? Trust me, it won't be OM, so it will be the kids, or your in laws? Again, what will they think of YOU in that scenario? Also, consider this. In most states, you are liable for your spouses debts as long as you are M. (I'm a L but am not licensed in Ca and don't know your state and am not giving legal advice, BUT...) So, you could have a sick w and get huge medical bills for which you are legally responsible and then, wouldn't it totally suck to have NO insurance b/c you wanted to teach HER a lesson and have HER face the consequences??
Either way, you won't come out smelling like a rose. And when the D is done and final, THEN she'll have to find it on her own, and or as part of the D settlement. THEN it'll count towards your contributions/child support/alimony or whatever happens in your state.
As for paying for her insurance so she can get depo/birth control - so she can fool around....hey, that is really gross and unfair. I get how bothered that would make any man, I really do understand that. But you are also assuming/ thinking the worst, b/c maybe another medical reality is she can't sleep well, or has an ulcer, or whatever. Why read the worst scenario into it?
Regardless, assuming you are correct about her medical needs these days and it's all about sex with OM and not getting pregnant--well geez, the alternative is her getting pregnant from this goon...how's that better? Umm, all things considered, I say thank GOD she's thinking enough to stay UNpregnant and, interestingly...she does NOT want to take a chance on having THAT guy's kid... I can think of worse scenarios.
Look, there are such things as healthy boundaries and what you are really struggling with is knowing the diff between setting and enforcing those well set boundaries, and being punitive. No one wants to be a doormat. So, as AmyC says, search your heart. I had similar issues about affection and warmth and just PMA issues as to how to act around H when he visited. Why give him the benefits of M when he was free to come and go as he wanted, while he pursued his "dream job" and MLC? I mean, I get your dilemma. And there is a shifting blurry line, okay? But, search your heart and see if you are trying to "teach" something to the W, b/c if you are, that really is a form of punishing, just nicely dressed up if you know what I mean. Same with saying things like "it's only fair that she X..." b/c again, it often is another way of saying "I'll show her" and it's something to watch for inside all of us. My DB coach said a lot of really helpful things for my sitch. One that stuck out was about the whole PMA and affection, ML, etc. She said to do what felt true and natural and not anything I'd feel humiliated or used by later on...a good point to be sure. But also, to note that there is a CONTRAST between a warm home, with loving people who understand and accept you with the best things that familiarity offers, including laughing and touching and history--knowing the stories, the family members involved, and geunine love being shown...AND the "outside" world of the MLCer. Sure, there is excitement out there. The UNfamiliar is interesting and even exciting, but it's not all good. Just as familiarity has its' good side, the completely new is also uncomfortable at times, frightening, intimidating, off putting, and sometimes it's way off. I had a moment of that 2 years ago, while sep. A guy who had been kind but was totally not attractive to me, kissed me on the cheek -- I thought. But no, not on the cheek. ON the FACE, as in the WHOLE dang face, (wth?? geez, NOT good!) and rather than hijacking this thread, trust me when I say, I never missed my h more than at that moment. The "kiss" of the new guy, was literally horrifying to me and if I could, I'd have run back full speed into h's arms. The guy later called to apologize "for mauling" me, literally those were his words so I'm not exaggerating. God only knows what that guy's ex W went through before, and that's just based on his "kissing/sucking/licking" thing, but I digress... I don't know what my h did when we were sep, though he claims nothing and sometimes I believe him mainly due to the hours his new job demanded and the type of work (medicine). Plus, I won't snoop. But I also know even if he strayed, well...if it'd been that good, we wouldn't be together now. So Don't read into your w's new experiences all wonderful adventures and thrills and multi-orgasmic times. There are bound to be shortcomings in the OM that you do not have. Stories and inside jokes he cannot possibly know. Things you know she dislikes, which he does not know yet. He will be "wrong" about something. He's human. And you have some traits, SOME good things in you that OM does not. Like for instance, you wouldn't date a M woman, would you? Gee, there's one positive trait already, and I don't even know you well....
You also have to trust that Life will give them the consequences of their choices. When WE, the LBSers try to do it instead of trusting that ultimately they will miss us, or what we could have had, WE lose. Indeed, we often force the WAS to shut out the inner voices they have within, the voice of a conscience that might ask them what the hell they're doing to you or their family, but instead, they're spending time and energy defending themselves against your comments or insinuations. I feel for you. It's hard to know the right path. In case you don't know my sitch, and it's always a little dynamic, I'm in "piecing" and I'd say in my h's eyes, we're through piecing and fully intact maritally.
To summarize my view: I still have deep wounds and fears, but we are M. And it wasn't easy or expected, and as AmyC and others who've been around for awhile know, it was not a good sitch and it was very confusing. I believed it was over and doomed, and so did our older kids. 18 months ago I would have given our chances for being M today, about 10%. I went to counselors and therapists and chaplains, and tried lots of things. Sometimes h went too, but if he didn't like the answers, he stopped or ignored what they said. I just could not reach him. Life did though. Things happened beyond my control and they changed him. If I had punished him as I believed he deserved, we'd be D and even if we somehow end up divorced someday down the road, our d11 and older kids are better off for the effort they've seen and the lengthier marriage. ANd that's if things don't end up working out. Right now, it looks pretty good and I'm scared, but hopeful.
Looking back, If I could only do ONE thing and not all the rest, I'd do the DB coaching sessions. They helped the most specifically. Very valuable words and Hence, my passing her words on to you. Good luck, sorry you are here, but you are in the right place.
(( j- ))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Thanks for looking in on me. No I made the decision an hour after I had posted even considering dropping her. It was a reality check and her health insurance is all set. Yes I was being vindictive at first, but with Amy's help, I backed off and withdraw. As for other people in my life, I have pulled away from that and any thoughts of that. I have put my wedding ring back on the correct finger and have started working on the forgiveness portion of my life.
I talk to Him quite a bit as I had posted. Certain things needed to be done and He had me do them, that said I am in a verty good place. Oh yeah, miss her terribly, but I am in a good place. The only insurance she is in trouble with is her car insurance. I am the one with all the bills. It was agreed to early on that she would be responsilbe for her car payment, car insurance and her credit cards. Her car is getting ready to be repossessed, I have had to carry the car insurance and plead with her for the money every month and she has done nothing with her credit cards. She does not pay rent. what she does do is drive 2 hours round trip once or twice a week to see OM, drinks and parties at least 4 nights out of 7, and that aint cheap.
Yes I am in a tough position, but no more so that anyone else on this site. Since doing some of my small things, I feel better about myself. Don't worry about her health insurance, sometimes what I post her eis venting because I have no other place. The W has been informed her health insurance is set and I explained the new ppolicy and pricing. I agree with your DB coach and I am doing the same. I am not going to interfere if her car gets reposessed, that is her issue. the car insurance is a direct withdrawal from my account monthly. I put her on with me as a nice gesture and to help us save money. If I had been on this site then, it would not have happened. I would have removed myself and left her insurance alone. I am learning to leave her to her own.
I truly love my W, and it was just brought to my attention that we had, and maybe still have, true love. I don't want to see her hurt or even hit bottom, but I also realize if I don't nothing will get better. Just to let you know one of my most recent revelations was that I was most likely in MLC after my dad died. My rock bottom was her bomb august 3, 2008 11:30 AM. What I did after that and who I am now are testament to the person I am. I planted a kiss on her last week, on the mouth, becasue I was compelled to do it. No expectations, just a kiss. She did not receded, turn away or push me away. She accepted my kiss and kissed back. I walked away from her after that without looking back. This is not a vengeful person, if I was, the deal would be done, trust me...
I want to thank you for the advice you posted. I do the things you have written and have some of if not all the ssame feelings. My hardest thing I am going through now, and it seems to making me frustrated and aggravated is the forgiveness part that I have to learn, now. I have to start forgiving , now. that is what He has told me, I cannot wait for her to mayb come back or when she comes back. If the forgiveness is not there, then why should she come back. this is a huge life lesson, for me and her. I know this. I understand allthe outside MLC world because I was there. I apologized to my kids for being an absent father. My drinking and partying weekends was all I lived for. to go out raise hell and everything else be damned. I am 48 years old acting like I was in high school. She was right along wioth me and she is still there. Did you find the waiting for them to come out frustrating and too slow in progress ? LOL....She has been in this for a little over two years by my recollection and my kids. It was two years ago they started saying that there mother was dressing like a teenager and spending too much time with make-up and alwways flirting....
All I did was drink more and get mad and upset with her. the worse I got, the worse she got. I am out of that loop. I no longer drink (occassional wine) I go out once a month with friends to party, dance and raise hell.
But I appreciate you sharing what your DP coach has told you, it is What AMy and Sandi have also told me. Are you vback with H? How long were you apart? what brought you back together? I am very interested...
Just called W to get her SS for the health insurance, forgot to write it down off of our taxes. Anyway that's done and asked her to get back to me on when the car insurance money will be in the bank for me to transfer. She said she would. She does not sound good, not sick, just doom and gloom. told her I need the money to finish xmas shopping. She said, "tell me about it". when I talked to FIL sat night, I had mentioned that she seems to be getting money from her mother. He said he hasn't lent her a dime. when she asked him a month or so ago he told her he didn't have it. Him and his GF know that if they help her, she will not go into that good night....
Her best friend emailed me, no mention of kiss. Told me her and her kids and her husband miss me. I will go over tonight and see them...Xmas shopping will be done./ Not overwhelming gifts but very nice. I did extremely well. No I didn't get her one. Amy can you suggest a couple of other passages in the Bible I might read. The one from yesterday "God's Promise" I have added to my favorites on my computer. I have read it at least 8 times. Seems very significan to me.
