Sorry to hear about BF going away with Helen. On the other hand, the more time they spend together the better in terms of speeding things up in the R and getting him through to the other side of it. I wouldn't stress about it too much. I was pretty pleased when H went away with the aubergine (although not so pleased he wasn't honest about it).
Interesting that he got you a card and gift. Try not to read too much into it at this stage. I'd just take it as a nice gesture with no intentions attached to it. My H has got me a few things aswell, and there's no way to know what it means, so best to put it from your mind.... (IMHO).
So sorry to hear about the whole trip with Helen thing. I agree with One Day, though- the more time they spend together, the faster it will burn out. Maybe the giftie is an indicator of this beginning to happen? Whatever the reason for it, it definitely means that, one way or another, you were on his mind for a long enough time to get it, wrap it, and send it.
Quote:
He took the trouble to find a card, present, nicely wrapped and went to the post office and mailed it when he was off ill (he is notoriously crap at being organised like that for friends/family, so it is surprising, kind of, going out of his way)..
You are the best person to judge how much weight to give this, but it seems to me that if it's uncharacteristic for him to go to all of this trouble, then that says something too.
What is the something? Only he will know, of course. All MLCers seem to have glimpses of lucidity in the madness- take all of this as a hopeful sign, but don't let it get your hopes up so much that you develop expectations of immediate improvement that can be crushed, taking you out emotionally along with them. Treat it as a baby step. Something I have taken to doing that really helps me is to have a notebook where I keep a running tab of all the little things like this that seem to point to a trend. I will write the date, a description of what happened, and a little "alianalysis" of questions for myself as to why it might have happened. Then when I get feeling hopeless, I go back and reread all the entries over time and see that it's better than I tend to make it out at the time, because there IS progress. True, it's not as quick as any of us would like, but it does show progress...even if only a little.
Keep your chin up, my dear- it's a marathon and not a sprint.
One day at a time... -Jimbo
P.S.- Don't be in a big rush with posting the convo- it will still be here later. Take time out for you. Consider maybe taking more than one day away from the board. Let yourself get caught up in something else intentionally- you get a much needed mental break, and it's a great way to let your subconscious work for you, too. After all, it was Einstein who said he got his best ideas while shaving....
PATIENCE AND FORTITUDE CONQUER ALL THINGS. -Ralph Waldo Emerson
DBing and MLC take their toll....Please provide exact CHANGE. -Jimbo
Well, had a long convo with BFF.. we cant believe how people behave, how they treat one another. She made me realise that ex had moaned (about 10 people in our convo (never me), including 3 BMFs, his Mum and brother.
I did post the long convo.. then lost the post! Anyway...When he told me "and someone else" was going, he also said, I'm sorry.. I'm sorry, I dont mean to upset you.. or usual apologies.. I said I didnt expect him to say that, how silly, but I was shocked (that was becuase he had made out he's alone).
I asked him about Helen.. I said "I guess its going well for you then?" He aaid, I dont know.. I dont know.. (sounding fed up)...I repeated, you dont know? He said, I dunno..I dont know..and then...I just feel a bit wierd talking to you about it...(sounding embarressed and guilty).
He said "I dont know what I'm doing.. I'm just going along with it".
He said he was sorry he hadnt called before and why...I said it would be good to see him after he got back, but I understand thats probably difficult for him and he said, "no, to be honest, I dont know what I am doing, I just havent thought about it at all"... that he didnt want to think about it, he couldnt be *rsed to think about it, that he didnt feel christmassy...
He went on, I dont really know what I am doing.. all I know is I am moving to that house.. and talked alot about this shared house he is moving into with 2 guys in January, he's going to see how it goes he said, no tenancy with them.. and then said, thats all I know, thats all I know I am doing...
I thanked him for letting me know about going away with her and said I hoped he had a good time...he said he had to go pack and I said...well, I've leave that one with you then (when we would be in contact again).
..he's taking her away for a week.. ok with brother he doesnt get on with and SIL he hates and there will be stresses and bickering. Whether that means him and Helen have an awful time, or a good time..I'm not likely to find out. I didnt feel like I was DBing him, I said whatever came to mind, like asking about her.
Not sure why he said he found it difficult to talk to me about her...but, maybe thats only natural.
I really like what Jimbo said and I'm not sure that I can add too much of significance. The one thought that I had is that your ex is probably not really conscious of the signals that he is sending. What I mean is that when the WAS is depressed, in MLC etc., seems that he will often do weird contradictory things. To me those contradictory behaviors are very much indicative of their conflicted minds. So your ex is going on a trip with OW, but reaching out to you and sending gifts. I think it's very clear that he still has feelings for you, and clear that he isn't satisfied with OW. He is probably not looking at it so clearly and rationally, but rather acting on emotion. I still think that if (assuming that's still what you want) you can remain the calm, collected one in all of this, there may still be a chance. By this I don't mean sending light emails about OW etc., but simply not getting visibly emotional when he talks to you about things. What do you think about letting him know that the door is still open? Do you think he realizes this?
ITH
Me:34 H:36 M:5 years T: 8 years Bomb: 07/17/08 I want to be separated for 6 months--I don't know what I want the outcome to be S 07/28/08-11/08/08 Living together ~7 months D Possibly busted?!?!!!
((Ali)), ((Ali))), ((Ali)), I'm sorry to see that you are still in so much pain. I have to agree with GFI, you need to take a break from these boards, figure out what you want & detach from your BF. You cannot be his friend in this state. All I see is you going down the same chesse tunnel, hitting a dead end & then going back to the beginning & choosing the same tunnel. Read that detaching poem, take the time & detach.
You are lying to him as well. You don't want him to have a good time with Helen. You want him to be miserable w/her & run back to you. He cannot talk to you about Helen, because you are not his friend you are his xGF. You need to set a boundary about what you talk about. His personal life, should be off limits. You cannot help him with that.
You are still burdening him with letting him control your happiness. Push through this & find your own happiness. C'mon Ali, you can do this
Me39, XH45 Kids 3 dogs, 2 cats Divorced 6/4/09 Tricky thing is not how you live, but how you live with yourself. (POTC)
Hey everyone...I want to say how blessed I feel that things are still so positive and friendly...that he can call me, for an hour or more (I should remember to get off the phone first in future!). I feel so lucky that he did that, made time before he left for holiday, told me his plans and when he is back and not only that, but got me a card and wrapped a present after a year+ apart, which he didnt do last year. So touched.
Lisa - We had the chance to do this trip 2 years ago and he said No Way! He said he wouldnt survive the car journey with brother & SIL, neverlone the week. His brother irritates him after a day and he doesnt like SIL. So..he must have been desperate to NOT have a cosy family Christmas at her house, or at his Mums, IMHO.
Jim - Yes, it was a stretch for him, posting me a present, when off sick. He always forget to do this in time for his BMF and berate himself. Also, he said.."I dont know what I am doing, I just havent thought about it at all, I dont want to think about it, I cant be *rsed to think about it, I dont feel at all christmassy"... and yet, he went to the trouble of posting me a present. So.. wow!! And...no idea why !
MrsM.. no I wasnt lying, I really did want HIM to have a nice Christmas week, without really realising that meant he would be having a nice week with HER! Durr! I havent wanted to talk about her, before and I dont want to, I was just so shocked, that question slipped out!! I will avoid ow talk in future!
ITH - Yes, I feel that he does love and care for me. I dont know what else is there, or could be in the future if him and her split up. I guess all I can do is to continue trying to be his friend
...so on the phone I bought up our mortgages and rental income. He talked to me about his tenant too and I offered to help if he needed it (but doubt he will take me up on that). He keeps telling me how broke he is and how he has to move to a cheaper place in Jan, so for the first time, I approached it:
M: Theres going to be money building up in the account, why dont you start taking it out? Its yours afterall H: oh no...thats ok, I'm happy to leave it in there.. M: well, I know how worried about money you are, so you may as well take your half if you ? H: oh well, thats alright.. anyway...interest rates wont be low forever M: well, they probably will be for a while yet...? H: oh well.. thats ok...
He then changed the subject. He has never mentioned our house, selling or otherwise, or splitting finances/assets in a year. Not once, ever, since he left. I do feel as though he feels a sense of responsbility for me, but I cant read anything into it and it might just be as - he "cant be *rsed", as he would say ! But its something else I feel blessed and grateful for, as I dont want to sell my house.
I think one of the reasons DBing suggests "no relationship talks" is that as long as they're in MLC, you can be sure you're going to be getting lies. They lie to their partners about the OW and make out that she is not a terribly significant person to them, they give accounts of their time that give the (false) impression that the OW wouldn't fit into their schedule. And you can be sure that they're also telling the OW that their partners were never satisfying in various ways, and implying that they've had little if no contact with them. It's part of the territory. And because the MLCer's mind is seratonin-starved and therefore not thinking straight, is it really worth trying to analyse their twisted logic? That way madness lies!
Another thing that is totally common in the MLCer is that they try to find a way to cling on to BOTH relationships. A depressed person finds it very difficult to make even the simplest decision, and so he hopes that by doing minimal work on both relationships, he won't have to give up either. Both the partner and the OW have something that he needs, and the only way he can see to get all his needs met is to "have his Kate and Edith too." My H told me that he felt the happiest during his MLC when he thought he'd found a way to keep his marriage AND his "friendship" with the OW--forever.
One day he will have to make a choice. But as long as you enable his vision that he can satisfy you with crumbs of attention, occasional "sweet" phonecalls, vague promises of talks and meetings, etc, he will not be motivated to change. And likely he's not far enough along in his journey to do so, yet. But, if he's got another 2 years to go, wouldn't you like to spend them being creative, confident, happy and content, rather than as half of a not-currently functioning relationship? That wouldn't mean you'd given up on the possibility of reconciling with him, just that you were able to put your OWN needs first.
Cyrena- Your total number of postings value masks your wisdom very well!
I agree with Cyrena here. When I was still in contact with my W, she instructed me that when I emailed her, I was to email her to a yahoo address instead of her work email. Why? Because her OM is the network manager at her work, and could potentially snoop in her email! Of course, that is not the reason SHE gave, but it's so transparent that it's ridiculous! She wants to have the best of both worlds, and have the best chance to keep both men in the dark as much as possible.
She was still making overtures at D, so I decided to go dark to show her what her chosen future would be like. (We have no kids, so I had absolutely nothing to lose.) After 1 and 1/2 months, still no contact, and still no divorce papers! And do you know what? I've been able to lovingly detach. I don't devote anywhere NEAR the time I did to worrying, moping, fearing, etc, etc, etc. I never realized just how draining it was to me, and how much it had really taken over my life until I removed myself from the sitch, and was able to look at it from the outside, instead of from "in the trenches". And it's much, much better out here. I find that I have more time and energy to focus on ME and what I want out of MY life, so that when the time comes, I will be more confident about those things, and about me in general.
And that alone in a person is exceedingly attractive in itself.
Now I'm not advocating or decrying the benefits or liabilities of darkness here. My whole point is that you need to take care of YOU first. And by doing that, you are indirectly working on your R!
PATIENCE AND FORTITUDE CONQUER ALL THINGS. -Ralph Waldo Emerson
DBing and MLC take their toll....Please provide exact CHANGE. -Jimbo
Hey Cerena.. wow, thank you so much for posting to me with such clarity! I just read that out to my Mum! You really helped me. Interesting you say...
"as long as you enable his vision that he can satisfy you with crumbs of attention, occasional "sweet" phonecalls, vague promises of talks and meetings, etc, he will not be motivated to change."
..so what would your advice be, NOT to be so available for these talks and meetings? He is now able to express that he misses me, has done the last twice I saw him, which is a major change to a year ago (when he justified ending it with, "but I didnt miss you" after we were S for a week!!).
You reminded me.. when I answered the phone, he said "Hi Al...hiya..." in THE sweetest voice, the old him, made my stomach flip.. same cheeky sweet voice as he checked I'd be home and told me about his parcel..a voice you use to your partner only, warm and fuzzy Kalni called it. I havent heard that voice since July and not even then even, maybe 18 months??? Thats why I thought they had split up.
I am not sure when all this started and how far along he is. Its been at least since May 2007, but he was very depressed from Oct 06 when we moved away, but then, his Dad went into the coma May 2005 and died end July 05...so he was bereaved from Aug 05, so....he's not been truly his old self since May 2005!
I notice you only have 6 posts and you are through your H's MLC now? So.. what changed for you then? What precipitated him saying he wanted to try again? And after how long? Thankyou Cyrena.
(PS: MrsM.. I was totally blown away by your developments!!! Will post to you later...)
