Thank you so, so much!!! It is so nice to hear from someone who is in a similiar relationship spanning over so many years. I think you are very right about what my W is going through. As I said she's moving back in next month, but she says she's not happy about it, that she just got to get her own place and her own bank account, etc, and she doesn't want to give that up. It's so hurtful--I've given her as much of my life as she's given me, and now I just feel like she wants to throw me out like old garbage. As time progresses I'm beginning to believe that this is less about the EA than it is about her wanting to just be on her own for the 1st time in life--how do I combat that? Do you think she needs to be afraid of losing me? I think you're right, these long term relationships are very hard to walk away from, which is why she's gone back and forth so much between getting a D or just staying separated. The other part of this is that we started off as best friends and then moved into a relationship, so she keeps saying that she still wants me to be a very good friend, but that she sees no future for us as a couple. In some ways, it seems that the length of relationship works for and against us...
Glad to see you back! You're right, but how do I make that happen without forcing her hand to sign D papers? This is the 4th time she's gone back and forth; I don't know if it's just guilt or that she still really does want to be my wife. By the way, she seems to be getting a bit jealous; this morning she asked why I always have to go to work looking like a model!
Here's an update. I called my wife and asked if she'd like to go to lunch. We get to the restaurant and she starts saying that she can't do this anymore, that she doesn't want to be my wife, that she doesn't want to be married, blah blah blah. I can't count the number of times we've had this conversation. She tells me that I'm probably thrilled that she's coming back home so that I can have her under my control (load of BS!! She has always called the shots in our life). I tell her that she made me feel like sh*t last night when she said she was moving back in but that she didn't want to and she was very unhappy about that. She keeps saying that I just want her there regardless of how she feels, but that to is BS, I want her there as my wife, to hold, to hug, to laugh with, to make love to, the whole nine yards. I feel like I should just tell her (again) that if she doesn't want me she should file--I'm so sick of these games. Is that wrong to do? Should I tell her to file again? I really want our M to work, but she really doesn't, so what's the point? I'm in a state of limbo right now, and I feel like a zombie. I have to close my office door several times a day just to cry. I can't focus on anything other than this. I just feel like I can't take this anymore.
As I said she's moving back in next month, but she says she's not happy about it, that she just got to get her own place and her own bank account, etc, and she doesn't want to give that up.
I think it will help for you to consider that there are likely several reasons that she is unhappy about moving back to your home. ---When she has here own place, she can see OM all she wants. ---When she has he own place, she can hide from the reality of her situation - you - and focus on the fantasy, i.e. the A. ---Part of the journey for her is figuring out what it would be like to be single. She wants to see what she missed by getting married so young. ---When she has her own bank account, you can't see what she's doing with her money.
And we could keep going.
The reason I bring this up is because I don't think it works to focus on one aspect of explaining your W's thought process/motivation/behavior. Believe me, I've been down the exact same path. I've told myself that all of the issues my H has with our M are real - needing to figure out who he is, feeling he's missed something in life, feeling as though I am the husband and not him, we're apples and oranges, etc. And they are real. They have been there forever. The point is, one day my H woke up and decided that instead of working on these long-standing issues or living with them as he had been, he instead decided he was done.
It's not a coincidence that his major life epiphany corresponded with him meeting the OW. I think what happens when a lot of people have affairs is that they meet someone. That someone makes them feel fullfilled in a way they haven't felt in some time because that person mets needs that were neglected (unintentionally or not) in the M. That person begins to consume their thoughts and suddenly they are "in love" - or, what the wise call infatuated. Suddenly, this person is unbelievably appealing, and the spouse's flaws are typically magnified. The person having an A descends into "the affair fog". This fog clouds judgement - it helps them to avoid reality by descending into a fantasy world where the grass is greener, their entire life history is completely different from the one they remembered before the OW, and they suddenly feel enlighted, as if they've found the last piece to a giant puzzle.
All of a sudden, they know they've met their soulmate. They begin to rationalize: ---"I was never truly happy with my H/W." ---"I made a mistake in marrying my H/W. I was pressured into it/ I married out of complacency/ I didn't know what love was." ---"I don't truly know who I am." ---"We've changed so much. The people we are now are not compatible."
And it goes on and on and on. The beauty of all of this is that we know good and well that they actually aren't truly happy now. It's a skewed version of reality, and once the fog clears and the real world encroaches onto their fantasy world, they then realize that the grass was only greener because they'd put on green-tinted glasses.
The point of that whole rant is to say that your wife likely has many reasons for leaving - and they are likely all equally valid in one way or another. But do not discount the A as being a major part of that. You might be trying to save yourself some pain - even if it's subconscious - by not focusing on the A. Believe me, I did the same thing. It's not to say that you should become obsessed with the A of remove focus from you, but beware denial. The longer you stay in denial, the longer before you can progress in your grief and move to acceptance - and acceptance is where you want to be in order to maximize your DBing efforts.
Your wife probably always struggled - from time to time - with the fact that you'd been together from such a young age. She probably felt - from time to time - a longing for passion and romance that no longer seemed available because you'd both "moved past it". She probably wondered - from time to time - what it would be like to be more like the other people she knew, people who had dated and been wild and young.
But she lived with it. She loved you, and she loved her life with you. If she has any wisdom, then she recognized that the love she had with you was lasting, was real.
It's just that sometimes, she wondered. Sometimes, she felt restless.
But it was never enough to leave until one day, she met someone that made her feel ____ (whatever she wasn't feeling with you). They talked and talked and talked, and after awhile, she found herself longing to be with that person. Somewhere along the line, that person began to consume her thoughts. You were pushed to the sideline in her mental landscape. She began to examine her life, to pluck out all the negative encounters. Now, that once-wistfulness has grown into full-blown panic. She thinks that she's made a mistake with her life, that she needs to be free.
And the rest is history. That might not be exactly what happened with your W - or even with my H for that matter - but I'm willing to bet it's pretty darn close.
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I've given her as much of my life as she's given me, and now I just feel like she wants to throw me out like old garbage.
I completely empathize. Believe me, I totally get it.
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As time progresses I'm beginning to believe that this is less about the EA than it is about her wanting to just be on her own for the 1st time in life--how do I combat that?
Like I said, don't marginalize the importance of the A. Even if the A is only a catalyst to launch her into action, that is still huge. The problem is that as much as those other issues of her might be the root, the key weakness that propelled her to cheat - the cheating is what is keeping her in her fog. While she's in a euphoric state, there's not much you can do except give her time, give her space, and work on YOU.
The time and space helps to propel the A to its natural death.
Working on you helps you to work through your grief and grow. An added benefits is that when the A begins to fall apart, you will be even more appealing.
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The other part of this is that we started off as best friends and then moved into a relationship, so she keeps saying that she still wants me to be a very good friend, but that she sees no future for us as a couple.
You have no idea how much I hear the friend thing myself. I believe that a big part of this is about the cheating spouse minimizing loss. They want to cake-eat. They don't want to truly leave, to truly make a choice between two people and accept all of the consequences. And if you're friends, they feel less guilty.
My H and I are best friends as well, so I know how hard it is. Even if you truly want to be friends later, being friends right now isn't always the best idea. In many cases, it enables the cheating because you're not allowing your spouse to experience the full consequences of her choice. You're not allowing the naturally occuring lesson to fall into place, so they cannot (in many cases) learn from that mistake.
The key is being friendly without being a friend.
Believe me, it is HARD. But you can do it, and you must.
If you do part ways in the end and youboth decide on friendship in the future, that's great. But right now, your W has to feel the loss.
The best advice I can give here is that you should not make any decisions - or even communicate with your W if possible - when you are emotional. Use this place for that.
Try to look at the bright side, which is that at least your wife seems to be very confused. I am willing to bet that when she has a bad day with the OM, she comes back to you. That's how the fog tends to work.
I think you need to resolve now to start making her feel the consequences of her choices - i.e. do not enable her. Do not help her financially. Do not treat her as a W (telling her where you're going, etc).
Do NOT take any responsiblity for the divorce - meaning don't push here to take action, and don't take action yourself. Have a plan or several plans, but don't share them. She wants the D. She needs to take ownership - and she is pushing your buttons in part because she wants you to absolve her of that dilemma.
Don't do it. Don't make this easy.
Work on you. Distract yourself with doing things until doing those things becomes natural.
Oh my gosh, Nas, I'm always so surprised by how my particular story has been replayed in the lives of others. I honestly feel as though you are right here in my shoes. Everything you said is so true, even about what I'm doing. I have begun to convince myself that she's didn't do anything wrong with the OM, and that all of this is somehow justified. But you know what? It's not justified. We took vows before God that were supposed to mean something. I don't remember our vows saying "as long as we have passion" or "until someone else comes along to reignite my passion." It's not justified. It's downright filthy and disgusting and I am just getting sick to death of it. I'm sick of crying at work, I'm sick of feeling like a piece of trash, and I'm sick of allowing her to make me feel that way. It is just so hard to detach and be friendly without beign a freind, but I definitely get what you're saying about the cake-eating and her needing to feel the loss. She wants it all. She even says we're still a family and we should still go on family vacations together. To that I must say HELL NO!!!!
Oh my gosh, Nas, I'm always so surprised by how my particular story has been replayed in the lives of others. I honestly feel as though you are right here in my shoes.
Hey, Crafidi! I think we all experience that "wow, this thing happens to other people" reaction when we get here. I'm still working on becoming more active myself as my sitch is fairly recent and I haven't been here all that long, but I can tell you that the more you read up on other people's sitches - and offer support - the more all of this will begin to make sense to you. Most of us here are operating fairly blindly in our sitches because of our emotional attachment. Getting perspective from strangers' dilemmas truly does help to open your eyes to your own circumstances.
Not to pimp my thread or anything, but since our sitches are similar in some regards, it might help you to read what some wise people have said to me. I will warn you that it's alot of reading. I tend to be long-winded.
I have begun to convince myself that she's didn't do anything wrong with the OM, and that all of this is somehow justified.
Yep, totally did that. I am facing reality a little bit more day by day. It's excruciating at first, but once you get past the initial rage and self-pity and aobbing, it actually helps make you stronger and gives you perspective.
I still don't hate my H. I still understand the impetus that drove him to do this. I still can look at my own mistakes and empathize. I am still working towards true forgiveness.
But I'm not being naive, and I'm not trying to kid myself about what's happening (at least not as much as I was). I think only when you can face the full horror of your situation can you begin to evaluate and strategize.
I like to think of the Stockdale Paradox and try to draw wisom and strength from it. "You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end — which you can never afford to lose — with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be."
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We took vows before God that were supposed to mean something. I don't remember our vows saying "as long as we have passion" or "until someone else comes along to reignite my passion." It's not justified.
That is absolutely correct. Your W has free will, and she has fallen to temptation. But there are no obstacles as far as God's power is concerned. You must trust that God is working in both of you, that He sees your pain and that your pain is part of His plan, that He is helping you to grow by it and that He is with you even when things are bleak.
That doesn't mean you don't have to work for it, but it does mean that you absolutely have God on your side.
I would caution you, however, to judge/blame your wife. Sure, both of you did things that hurt the M. Sure, she's forsken God's laws by succumbing to the Devil. And yes, just because you might have lost some passion, it does not justify her actions.
But, beware casting stones as we are not without sin. She's human, and she made a mistake. It's normal to feel rage, to feel anger, to feel betrayed, to feel sorry for yourself, to feel deep sadness and frustration. But be careful to not let those emotions overwhelm you.
And the other side of that coin is that the longer you feel extreme emotions, the longer she is controlling you. In these situations, the person who cares the least about the R is in control.
Work through those emotions. Give them to God, work them out of your system, vent here - but don't allow yourself to dwell in pain for so long that you cripple yourself.
Not saying you're doing that at all, but it does take a lot of effort to begin to feel happy again. To start dropping the rope as they say.
Believe me, I struggle with it ALL the time.
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I'm sick of crying at work, I'm sick of feeling like a piece of trash, and I'm sick of allowing her to make me feel that way.
Yes! And now you have to do the hardest thing you've ever done - you have to pick yourself up and begin to fight for yourself. Make yourself a better person. Do the work.
Don't allow your W to control your happiness. Be determined to have a good day. I know that sometimes it feels impossible to have a good day, but the way I look at it, even if I slip into sadness or anger for a little while, if I make the effort to find my own happiness each day, I'm doing well. Some days, you might only be happy for 5 minutes, but eventually, that 5 minutes will become 30 minutes, and that 30 minutes will become 3 hours, and so forth and so on until you're having a happy DAY.
Do that for yourself. The cool thing is, the better you get at being happy with you, the more appealing you'll become to your W.
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It is just so hard to detach and be friendly without beign a freind, but I definitely get what you're saying about the cake-eating and her needing to feel the loss. She wants it all.
Yup. Of course she wants it all. Who wouldn't? She doesn't want to face the reality of losing you. She wants to feel less guilty and by doing so justify her decision to leave. Once she has to truly face the reality of what she's giving up, things are going to get more and more difficult for her.
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She even says we're still a family and we should still go on family vacations together. To that I must say HELL NO!!!!
I agree that you should not go on the family vacation with her. But I would advise that you be careful in how you tell her that. You want to be friendly but firm. Remember, whoever appears to have let go more has the upper hand. The next time she mentions the vaccation, say something like: "I understand why you'd want us all to go, and it's a lovely idea. However, I don't think it's fair to you, me or the kids to create a false expectation that our lives are not changing. If you'd like to take the kids, I don't mind at all - I bet it'll be a blast - but I won't be able to accompany you as I don't want to further confuse things."
There are probably a lot better ways to say that, but there's a starting point.
Good luck, Crafidi, and God bless. I will be praying for you.
Hi Nasmat! I just love reading your posts--they are long, but I love to read, so keep them coming. I read most of your threads, and again, I am so amazed at the similiarities. I definitely went through and still go through the blaming myself stage. I should have done this differently, said that differently, etc., etc. I know I've done things wrong, but I'm not fully to blame. We all do things wrong, and if the W is looking for perfection, I'm afraid she never be satisfied. Anyhow, this morning went well. I had myself all psyched up to tell her to either decide to work on our relationship or just file for D, but then last night I read more from DR and I realized that I wasn't prepared to end our marriage, which is undoubtedly the choice my W would have made. So, this morning she came, we took our daughter to school, pulled up to the train station early--I told her I was going to relax in the car until the train came, to which she said, "Oh, do you want to be alone?" I said, not necessarily, but I don't care, whatever you want to do. She "Well than I guess I'd better get going." I responded by simply saying "ok, have a good day." That's it--no phone calls or communication since. I'm trying real hard to detach, because I just can't keep giving her full access to my heart just so she stomp on it daily. By the way, she went out last night, so I made sure to shut off the lights and sit infront of the fire and enjoy some quite time alone. She came back to the house to pick up the car and thought I had gone to bed--no more waiting up for her. She then called me (that's a first in a while, her actually calling me) to tell me she came and got the car and is at her place. All of this is progress, I think?
So, this morning she came, we took our daughter to school, pulled up to the train station early--I told her I was going to relax in the car until the train came, to which she said, "Oh, do you want to be alone?" I said, not necessarily, but I don't care, whatever you want to do. She "Well than I guess I'd better get going." I responded by simply saying "ok, have a good day." That's it--no phone calls or communication since. I'm trying real hard to detach, because I just can't keep giving her full access to my heart just so she stomp on it daily. By the way, she went out last night, so I made sure to shut off the lights and sit infront of the fire and enjoy some quite time alone. She came back to the house to pick up the car and thought I had gone to bed--no more waiting up for her. She then called me (that's a first in a while, her actually calling me) to tell me she came and got the car and is at her place. All of this is progress, I think?
I think we all experience that "wow, this thing happens to other people" reaction when we get here. I'm still working on becoming more active myself as my sitch is fairly recent and I haven't been here all that long, but I can tell you that the more you read up on other people's sitches - and offer support - the more all of this will begin to make sense to you. Most of us here are operating fairly blindly in our sitches because of our emotional attachment. Getting perspective from strangers' dilemmas truly does help to open your eyes to your own circumstances.
Nicely done! 