Is she cheating??? Please respond!!

[Hope4us]

Haven't read your sitch, but will respond to your question.

ILYB...means she's having an affair. Simple as that. I'm sure there are times when it's said without an affair going on, but it's extremely rare. It means she's in love with OM and the high that goes with it and thinks because that's the way she feels about OM, that she can't be 'in love' with you.

Believe it or not, I think OM moving out of state is bad for you. I had the same thing in my sitch. Him moving will keep the fantasy alive in her mind. They will have no opportunity to get on each other's nerves. They will have no opportunity to figure out the bad things about each of them which will make it doubly hard to end the 'fantasy' in her mind.

I would suggest reading some books on the subject to get an idea just what ILYB..means and then formulate a plan from there. One good thing about OM moving is, unless your W is planning on moving with him, she probably won't leave the M right away. Women tend to not leave a relationship until they have another one lined up. So that gives you time. But you need to educate yourself on what's going on to know how to fight it.

I'll try to read your whole sitch and maybe offer some advise.

[WaitingPatiently]

She's gone from being adamant about wanting a D about 2 months ago, to saying she just wants a legal sep for now. She says she doesn't see a future for us, so I don't understand why she doesn't just file for a D. Yes, she was involved with another man (at the very least emotionally)(she says they were just very good friends, in fact she says he was her 'refuge' at times). Any books other than DR & DB you'd recommend for me? She really does love me underneath all of this, so I want to do all that I can to fight for my relationship.

[Hope4us]

I found "Not Just Friends" by Glass particularily helpful. "Surviving an Affair" by Harley is also very good.

Not Just Friends explains very clearly what you're dealing with.

If she was sure she wanted a D 2 months ago and now just wants a legal separation, she's having second thoughts.

Don't worry too much about the "no future" comment. Waywards all say that. It's part of the script.

Obviously I don't know for sure, but if she says "we're just friends" and he was her 'refuge' I would bet she's very involved EA wise and very possibly PA wise also.

Does she really love you underneath it all? At this point, it doesn't really matter because in her mind, she doesn't. And until she's been NC with OM (even if it's only an EA) for a good period of time, she won't feel anything for you.

You have to get in that mindset. That her reality right now is she doesn't love you and doesn't see any future for you. Can that change? Yes, but it'll take a lot of work and time, time, time.

[WaitingPatiently]

She was very involved emotionally. They would talk and text for hours in the middle of the night. I'm not clear on the physical, but I guess it doesn't really matter. She was really in love with me at one point; we are HS sweethearts, we've known each other since we were 13, and we were virgins when we got married. We were always attached at the hip. So I don't know if she's having second thoughts, or just having a hard time saying all of that is over. I hope and pray that she will wake up, because I really do still love her and I want to save my marriage. Do you even respond when she says these things? I try to convince her that these feelings will pass, but that doesn't work (still stuck doing more of the same, I guess). She says that there's nothing I'm going to say that she hasn't already thought of. I just don't want to push her further away...

[Hope4us]

First, you can't "teach" her anything right now.

When she says those things, just validate what she is saying without agreeing with her. If she says "I don't have 'those' feelings for you" just respond "I understand you don't have 'those' feelings for me right now". You're showing her you understand her position but you're not agreeing with her. It shows her you're listening and even if you don't agree, it shows you care about what she's saying.

Hoping she will wake up is what we all want here, but most times it's not an aha moment. It's more of a slow realization, either steady or in fits and starts.

Gotta go. I'll check in later.

[WaitingPatiently]

Perfect. Thanks.

[WaitingPatiently]

Hi,

So last night my W sends me a text saying she wants us to take our daughter to Disneyworld for her 5th bday in Feb. She says we really NEED to go there. Disney is a place that was very special to us as a couple. We grew up together in So.Cal. and went there often on date nights. We have a lot of wonderful memories there. 20 mins later her best friend calls me (she never does this) and starts begging me to do something to stop this path that my W is on. She says I need to take charge and put an end to this and save my family. I feel like I've tried everything, and I don't know what else to try. My wife has gone from wanting a immediate D to now a legal sep, but she says that she sees no future for us. Then I get these Disney messages. After I talked to her friend I called my wife and we had a long conversation and she says things like she knows what she is doing is against God, and that she's praying that God will change her heart back to wanting her family, but that she doesn't understand why he hasn't done that. I told her that God won't wave a magic wand and fix things, but that he wants her to come to him in obedience and from there he will work on her heart. Anyhow, she spends a lot of time crying on the phone, but she doesn't really say anything concrete. This morning she doesn't even mention the conversation. What should I do from her? How can I take charge and put an end to this when she doesn't even live at home?

[Hope4us]

Again, haven't had a chance to read your whole sitch so I don't know all the particulars, but I guess you have two different approaches you could take.

IF OM is/has moved but she's still talking to him you could take a hard line and tell her you don't think it's appropriate that you vacation together while she's still involved with OM. It sends a wrong signal to your W that you're ok with the current living arrangements and her continued contact with OM. It can show her that you're strong, will not play second fiddle to OM and if she doesn't like it, too bad.

On the other hand (and this is what I did), my wife and I went to Disney two times while she was still hot and heavy in her affair (after I found out, there was another time prior to my finding out). One time it was just us and another time we took the kids. It was the hardest thing I ever did having a good time, showing no emotion, etc when she would sneak off to call or TM OM. You can, in affect, show her you're a better man than OM. Time you spend with your W in a family setting, WITHOUT PRESSURE, is good for you. If Disney is a special place to you and your W, it could bring back those good feelings from where you two started. Has your W given you any indication of the things about you that bother her? You really have to pay attention because a lot of times those signals can be buried in other conversations. If she has, taking a vacation together can be a great time to 'show' her you get it. But don't tell her any of that. She'll have to SEE it. And she won't believe it for a while.

I have to tell you. It will probably take a long time. But it can be done. Show her the man she fell in love with. Be her friend. But it's going to be hard. Hardest thing you've ever done.

I don't know what the right answer is. DB seems to suggest playing the wait it out game. Other sites take a harder approach. Both can work and both can fail. A lot can depend on what led to the EA/PA. If she's crying on the phone a lot, she's conflicted. And conflict is good for the home team.

What do YOU want to do? You know your W the best.

How long has this been going on? How long separated?

[WaitingPatiently]

This has been going on for 6 months. 1st 3 months were bad, then 2 months were good, then she moved out in October. Last night she said she was going to move back into the house for financial reasons, but that she wasn't happy about that. That of course made me feel like crap. She says that I'm too controlling, but that complaint didn't really start coming out until the OM entered the pic. She also used to say that she didn't think I was in love w/her. That I was too good looking for her (she thinks she's overweight), that I lost interest in her. There was a period of time when I was very, very depressed about moving to NYC, and I know that affected our relationship badly. So when this all started 6 months ago I had a wake up call and started addressing the issues she was complaining about, but now she says it's too late. This morning she said to me that she didn't understand why I have to "look like a model just to go to work." I've always taken care of my appearance, but I guess I've been more attention to my looks lately since all of this happened. The truth is I want her to notice me again. I didn't really respond to her comment, but it makes me wonder if she's feeling a bit jealous. We got married 2 years out of HS, but neither of us ever lived on our own, and now she says she's really enjoying having her own space and leading her own life. Those are the main issues: control, ILYBINILWY, and her wanting to be single. I don't know what to do about her moving back in. I definitely want her at home, but I hate that she doesn't even want to be there.

[Nasmat]

Hi, crafidi! I've been reading through your sitch, and I wanted to stop by and offer some support. I can see some similarities in our sitches, and I really feel for you.

I too have been in an R with my husband for a long time. Like you, we started dating in high school (I was 15, he was 16). Like you, you both lacked experience outside of eachother.

I think what makes relationships like these so difficult is the lack of independent growth. In many ways, it's a burden to be with someone form such a young age. You grow up together, and you grow into one another. During the times when your peers are out dating and learning what they want in an R, you are in a committed relationship. When your peers are learning to fend for themselves in the real world, you are fending for eachother. When everyone you know is sowing there wild oats so that they can settle in a few years, you are already settled and wodnering what the wild oats would be like.

I think people that haven't been in this type of relationship have no idea how difficult it can be. It ages you prematurely. You feel like you miss out on certain life experiences.

In my case, I fell in love at 15. By the time I was 18, the "honeymoon phase" had run its course. We stayed together and were happy, but I can honestly say that I envied my friends and their "new love". I felt frustrated that I was so young but that I was living life like someone twice my age.

I think your wife is likely dealing with alot of that (much like my own H is now). She probably feels in many ways like she cannot truat her judgement about men/life because she lacks experience (hence the escalating anger). It doesn't make her EA ok, but I completely I understand why it is happening.

The good news is, sweetheart-type relationships are extremely difficult to walk away from. You grew up together. You are more connected than many couples that come together as adults because you have history that spans many different developemental stages.

She might be acting as though your R doesn't matter right now because of the shiny newness of her EA, but believe me, when you detach and pull out that comfortable relationship rug from beneath her feet, she will be shaken.

Seriously.

I've had my own EA (before marriage) and PA (brief fling after marriage), and I can tell you point blank that had my H not been there as my place of comfort and stability - as someone that I knew I could turn to when I was down playign around - I would not have been as attracted to the affairs.

I find it difficult to take alot of the great advice given here myself. I find myself asking if I'm just proving his "we just don't work as husband and wife" BS by detaching.

I ask myself whether I really want to stay. Am I really sure?

You'll have tons of questions, and you'll be on a constant emotional rollercoaster. It's normal. The good news is, the sooner you start truly working at applying the principles, the better chance you have. You've gotten here pretty early in the game, so that's excellent.

Stay strong, and hang in there. I feel for you.

God bless,
~Nas