Was looking at Match.com to gauge the kinds of available women out there. I'm surprised at how many smart and pretty ladies there are who are 40+ and divorced. I think what was most interesting is that many describe themselves as not been dating for several years since their divorce.
The advantage I think with the older ladies that have gotten divorced is that they know more of what they want in a relationship.
But, how would you be able to tell whether they could turn into the WAW type?
The statistics say that second marriages have a higher failure of divorce than first, but is that mostly for those that walked away and did not look deep within themselves as to their own faults?
When you get over the grief of the loss of your marriage, just take it slow and enjoy yourself. I am having a good time being with a new gal. I wont date anyone else at the same time as I dont feel comfortable with that. This girl is very nice, but there are a couple of hurdles that worry me and I am therefore taking it slow and with caution.
Just in case you have never tried it, a French Press makes a great cup of coffee with very minimal effort. I just recently bought one, along with some Hawaiian coffee, and am now experiencing the best tasting cups of coffee in my life.
Last night the girls and I an D17's boyfriend went and got our tree. We had some fun decorating it and even though there was a lot of memories we didn't let it get us down too much. In fact it was pleasant.
This morning W came for the morning routine with the girls.I came downstairs for a moment to tell her that I made a Dr's appt for D13 today. She seemed out of sorts.
I went back to my room and she left 20 minutes later. She called me on my cell and asked if it was ok if she came by to look through the box of tree decorations so she could pick out some that had 'meaning' to her. I said that was fine and she said that I could 'watch her' to see what she takes. I told her take what she wants I don't need to watch her.
So she came by and took both boxes with her.
Today I am working on getting past the depression so maybe I can find myself in acceptance.
There were two ornaments that the girls gave to me to put up on the tree. One was a little statuette of three female angels with the inscription 'my angels'. The other was a candy themed diamond shaped ornament with a circular candy shape at each point with My name on the top one, W's on the right one, D17's on the left one and D13's on the bottom. Below that a 'title' block said "The 'D' Family'.
They didn't want to hang them up, but instead had me do it and the 'family' one is right in the center of the tree.
These things are tough. Time to be strong for all of us.
...below that a 'title' block said "The 'D' Family'.
They didn't want to hang them up, but instead had me do it and the 'family' one is right in the center of the tree.
These things are tough.
Indeed Frank.
The first Christmas. The first New Years. Hell, the first everything Frank. The year ahead will be full of firsts that you will initially feel no excitement to be experiencing.
But it does get easier. The shock wears off at some point. And a strange thing begins to happen. You find yourself focusing more on the new possibilities than the stinging loss.
Your daughters are very close to the age my two boys were when my divorce happened. Z was 14 and W was 19 that first Christmas. Our kids are strong Frank, because we've raised them well. But they wrestle with the change and the pain it brings just like we do. Once again we have to find a way to deal with our sense of loss while at the same time serving as a leader for our kids in embracing the new possibilities.
I think Amy was very much on the mark when she wrote about your engineering-like approach to dealing with the emotional end of a marriage ending.
You can't plan your way through it. You have to let it wash over you. You need to FEEL all of these things and let them run through you. As men in particular, we struggle with allowing emotions to have their way with us, but I honestly believe that you have to give up control and allow all the feelings to be felt.
I'm not sure that you've really allowed yourself to grieve this yet Frank. You've held on, you've DB'ed, you've analyzed and observed. You've thought out all the possible permutations and considered how various variables would impact the final outcome.
But I'm not sure you've let yourself just feel the hurt.
I'm not suggesting wallowing in the mire. But I am telling you that I think it's necessary to drop the facade once in awhile and be real. You're not ready for Match.com. You're nowhere near the point where you need to be considering a future relationship.
Because you have to let this one go first.
I'll think about you and your girls this Christmas Frank. I will be sharing my Christmas morning with my two boys, giving them our new version of a family Christmas morning. We do things differently now than we did for the first 19 years of their life. I had to do that. It was somehow just wrong to try to pretend that nothing had changed. You need to do the same. Start something new this year Frank, something you and the girls have never done. Don't change everything. Just find something that makes a new tradition for you and the girls.
It helps us move forward.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
Gosh, your posts generated so much in me. Here are some partly conflicting thoughts crossing my tiny brain. First to things Amy and FIB said about boundaries and your w...On one hand, you ARE giving her the cake and she IS eating it, and she is therefore able to distance herself from most of the consequences of her actions. That sucks for ALL, and is unrealistic as to Life and what she WILL have to deal with. Moreover, I don't know what it teaches your d's. That You can "break up" without anything really breaking? No one wants that lesson for your kids and besides, what has it gotten you? BUT, OTOH my DB counselor once told me that being cold and ("maybe a tad punitive"?) to my h when he was here, might not be so brilliant. She suggested that I be warm, and to have fun and be very upbeat, GAL, etc so that H's world away from us/family contrasted that much more with how it was here. In other words, HERE, it's sunny and warm and there's laughter...and wherever else you are or go, it's NOT... maybe some of this could apply to your w's sitch. DB coach also said it's not the LBSer's job to show the WAS the consequences of their choices, life will do that. Just don't block it from happening. See the diff? I think part of it relates to our vision of justice and part of why I used to want to cut my h off for his behavior was just as it sounds; punitive. I wanted to punish him. Not just from anger, but from fear he'd do it again to me if I made things too easy on him. There's some logic to this, but you have to remind yourself that life WILL give them consequences and that is NOT our job to do, and when in doubt about a course of action, ask yourself if what you are really thinking of saying/doing is punitive--(DON"T DO) or is it a healthy boundary you are setting for yourself? Think it out.
I was not always successful at the whole happy GAL part, but I had some good moments and my girls saw them, and so did my h. Aside from the contrasting thing which MAY apply in your sitch, "With family=fun, familiar in a good way, joyful, intimate, funny, kind..." and "Without family=new, different...NOT the same."
Who knows why one MLCer wakes up and another doesn't? I know for sure that once I started to GAL and not count on h as being a part of my future, there was a shift within me, and maybe him too. HIS behavior was irrelevant b/c it was about MY well being and MY healing.
IF anything I did had an effect on my h, (and I'll ask him more sometime soon) it seemed to me to be the honest GAL efforts. They weren't fake gestures or empty posturing. (Yes, there were a few of those moments, but I'm talking the real thing now. ) For instance, I seriously looked at jobs in Florence Italy, and places I've always wanted to live. This was mainly b/c I could finally do this- look at living somewhere without FIRST considering what was best for H and his career. What a freeing experience! The first time in my adult life (well, really my life - period) that I could pick where I wanted to live.
I had turned a corner. I had actually seen at least one silver lining on this nightmare, I actually felt pangs of excitement and relief and wondered what the heck it'd feel like to do something ONLY b/c I WANTED to, not b/c it'd be good for everyone else, or they wanted it, needed it, etc. Just for ME...and H noticed. H was losing me and I believe we both knew it. Here is something that comforted me which may help you.
If we go thru something like this again, well it won't last long b/c I'll be gone. My pain won't last very long b/c I won't let it. And that makes me feel safer Frank. YOU can too. You must GAL. You know this, but you haven't really done it. If you GAL, she'll notice. Maybe she'll come back and maybe she won't --but YOUR happiness will be in your hands, where it has been all along. What is stopping you from moving forward? You can shut the door behind you and not keep looking back to check her actions...the door isn't locked and she knows where to find you. But you must stop checking in on her and the status of any poss movement. You are silencing the tiny voice in her head that MIGHT say "wth are you doing to your family?" You silence it by making her defend her choices with your words or your looks, your feigned disinterest--which she knows is a test--you prevent her from truly examining her choices b/c she has to justify them, AND you prevent yourself from leaving the shore for the other side b/c you keep looking back over your shoulders. Does this metaphor help you? It helped me, so I'm passing it on.
In sum, there are arguments about how warm and fuzzy you can be with your w and yet somehow know where to draw boundaries. Why is this necessarily a conflict? Why can't you be warm and upbeat in front of HERand your d's....AND also set boundaries in a warm but strong way? For instance, Calmly explain that you won't be available at certain times, you are going to a movie/concert/show with "some friends" she doesn't know, or you are taking a class, (and by the way, making it up is okay in this sitch but the best thing is if you really are doing some of these things b/c you CAN and SHOULD) she doesn't need to know where you are at all times. Heck, go to a support group if you need to, or join some other club or just GAL in some mysterious way. This isn't just for show, it's part of GAL. Remember the 180s? Doing any lately? What is stopping you from GAL?
Are you really afraid your w will think she's off the hook since you're so darn happy now, that she must not really have mattered? Do you believe somehow you'll hurt your chances of a recon by stiffing her? Do you think your kids will believe you didn't really really love her if they see you move on? No, they ALL know you've been wounded deeply. They ALL know that you are deeply hurt. Still.
Besides, do you think it's more attractive to your w to have you sad and mopey? Of course not. Guilt might happen - but that won't bring her back. Guilt will lead to resentment. And that's if it even gets to guilt. More likely she'll run away faster if she senses you're feeling gloomy and needy. Being upbeat and interesting is simply more interesting to everyone, than being wounded and not healing... and it gives you a break. It's the beginning of GAL, ie, acting as if your life doesn't suck, acting as if you will be fine...leads to that very thing becoming the truth.
You are also forgetting the impact this is having on the kids. YOU have to be the one to comfort THEM...you have to demonstrate that your pain may be real and deep, but it is NOT fatal and it is NOT eternal. It does proceed and you do heal. What's it teaching your kids if being betrayed means a life sentence of misery? As for the relationships in your family, there HAS been a death. Really. And Someday you will pass away and your children will grieve. THIS is your chance to show them how to do that. Be sad for your loss, mourn it. Feel it. Don't get drunk or stoned, stand in the doorframe until the storm passes and it WILL PASS... Stay aware of others and their needs but be fine with being sad for awhile. Now at this point, surprise reminders might pop up but overall, you are probably supposed to be farther along and it may take a kick in the pants to get there, so consider this the kick. I know, Merry Christmas, right?
Finally, a little perspective. Our family has had 3 deaths this year AND my mil has terminal cancer...and we also lost a good friend 14 months ago. I'm not saying "Hey, be grateful you're alive and so shut up!" I mean, that may be part of this but honestly, here's what I want to tell you that I've learned this past year or so.
It has been 14 months since my good friend suddenly died. Just enough time has passed that I can look at the family, the h/widower now and to check and see if he's doing okay. She was a mother of 4, age 7 to 13 at the time, and she was only 42 and was in really good shape. (Okay, I guess that isn't true, since she had a bleed in her brain). They had a truly good marriage. I know, how ironic. But it was a good one, and I thought so at the time, not just hindsight.
As I watch her h go thru his grief, I'm most struck first by his shock and bewilderment. He was lost. He had nothing to hold onto but his children, who were holding onto him. There was some anger at the kids for misbehaving, and then a deep depression landed on him, though he was cognitive enough to get help. He decided the only way HE could get thru this was by asking for help, and putting his focus on recovery and helping his children to do the same. Managing a job and a home with any children in it, is a FULL time job if you are lucky enough to let it be. My late friend's h ("E") had the "year of the firsts" with each holiday screaming out her name and the fact that she was missing in action. But I note a few things. This year He put up the tree with the kids. The kids had made some ornaments, and put old ones up and there were some tears. This year, just a few minutes of tears and mostly "E" said it was quietly celebrating that they made it. They know now, that they will be happy and skipping again sometime. Not today, but still, they know it'll happen.
You said putting up the ornaments reminded the kids of when your w was there and you had a "whole family" together. Well, their mom isn't dead; she's just down the road aways. It does suck, to be sure. But they have a mother and you still have an adult and co-parent. She hasn't kidnapped the kids or tried to turn them against you. She hasn't disappeared either; she isn't missing, or purposely avoiding any contact. She has left the family home and as much as that feels like rejection of YOU, it's more about her own weird incomprehensible choices than it is about you or the kids. Yes Frank. as gross and painful as it is, people get through much worse. I don't know how they do it.
Did you see the plane crash in San Diego the other day? I saw on tv the actual homes where the fighter jet crashed and killed a man's family while he was at work; his wife and mil, and both children...gone for good. He openly wept and said no hard feelings about the pilot, he even asked people to pray for the pilot, and then he asked those who've gone through something like this to reach out to him b/c he said "I don't know how to do this"...It was touching, and so great that he asked for help from those who've walked in his shoes. It reminds us ALL that as bad as having a broken heart is, it isn't death, and it will heal.
You will heal Frank, if you let the wound heal over -- it will heal and you will survive this. You have to. You have to teach the kids that when their hearts get broken, as they surely will be someday, they'll survive. And like them, you will laugh again, you will smile again, you will enjoy your life again and in all likelihood you will love again. My oldest sister re-married and though he's not perfect, I see her more relaxed and feeling more loved than she ever did while married to her first h. I'm not happy her ex left her, for it hurt her and the kids. But I recall thinking he might be doing her a favor, since as it turned out, she IS happier now. Just for the record, her ex-h regrets leaving her. He's remarried and calls his new w "high maintenance"...see? There is a God...karma, etc. ANYHOW...
Interesting that you noted what is out there on Match.com. Of course there are several good looking single woman in their 40's!! Geez, I met a ton of them at my HS re-union. Maybe the ugly women sit out their reunions, but based on those who showed up, let me say that the women held up much better than the men (don't you guys know that you can buy hair dye yourself if you're really poor? The all white hair look is only alright on Santa) Anyway any guy who wasn't 100 lbs overweight and employed, got a second look from the singles. The biggest down side is that a lot of women who've been deeply wounded are angry at men, or expecting to be treated badly. I assume men feel this way at times, but maybe they handled it differently. DATING--I did dabble in dating a little, back when h was gone to the tundra and we were legally s. The good news is that you can be attracted to someone new. That really is a good thing, as it proved to me that I could "be" with another man and not go nuts. You know, it's the old "I've still got it" feeling that you need to be reminded of now and then, in a safe way.
The bad news, (which is good for you right now), is that the unfamiliar ain't all good. There's a lot to be said for someone knowing your preferences and references and likes and dislikes. Discovery isn't all fun.... you discover some UN-fun things too. I had a nice conversation with a man who leaned in to kiss me goodnight and I decided, what the heck? It's only a kiss. My mistake. It was very unpleasant as he slobbered on my face so much that I kid you not, I honestly thought he licked my make up off because it was that wet. I thought maybe he liked the taste, or didn't know where my lips were?? It was gross and I never ever missed my h more than at that moment. There also seemed to be some unofficial expectation of men that the third date is the date where you sleep together. THAT made me think they were crazy. After years and decades of marriage to a man I was/am attracted to, how could one just leap into bed with a new partner? I mean, I hear that men want to bed other women all the time, and some gf's of mine have said they were very attracted to a man in their office or club, etc. But the actual moment of truth, where the stretch marks or extra 10 lbs. or cellulite show up, THAT stops me in my tracks and makes me wonder how others can get so intimate so fast? THere are so many reminders to your wife that she hasn't yet heard fully, perhaps b/c she is instead, listening to your comments or the way you look and defending herself. Your kids are watching you Frank and they are worried. Don't make them responsible for your happiness. WHich reminds me of my other point. The oldest d of my deceased friend, is now 14+ and her personality has changed. She used to be moodier but now seems upbeat almost, definitely more extraverted. I was puzzled. She confided to her dad that now that her mom was gone, she had learned that "the only one who can make me happy is me"... Wow, "from the mouths of babes..."
She has figured this out and she's 1/3 my age. Damn. Well, I'm not too proud to learn from a kid, and her words have really hit me. Thought I'd share them.
Enough for now, take care Frank. I've been off the boards for awhile now, am I correct in saying we are now not allowed to give out our emails? Where do I go to get the "new rules"? Thanks and take care of yourself FrankD. You are doing better than you know and this board does help you, I hope. We mean to. j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Wow..great post 25....will re-read again and again.
Originally Posted By: KerryK
The statistics say that second marriages have a higher failure of divorce than first, but is that mostly for those that walked away and did not look deep within themselves as to their own faults?
I hope, like KerryK posts, that WE...the people that look inward and spend timing working on this...are in the 40%. That number looks much better.
To amyC..I think it was brilliant to bring in Kubler-Ross' stages. They indeed go hand in hand with any major stressor. Perhaps:
1) Denial: Holding onto hope for reconciliation; seeing signs of a PA or EA and ignoring them, choosing to focus on babysteps instead when none exist
2) Anger: Discovery; for men a feeling of emasculation; for women, being lied to and cheated on
3) Bargaining: GAL'ing; trying to change to win back our WAS's affections; promising them a new us
4) Depression: Realizing that they are gone, done and not coming around; that the bolt of lightening is not going to hit them one morning and we awake to "honey, I'm home"; that only a very small few will be rewarded with "the marriage you've always wanted"
5) Acceptance: Finally learning Dr. Gray's definition of detachment...that we are NOT lashed to the ONLY person who can give us love...that, in frank_d's words, "we'll be OK."
FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
Frank, Some great words from 25yrs mlc, I hope we can all chew on them, I know it made me think about my situation. I hope you have a great day.
m-54 w-44 children-4 bomb-sept 21 2007 t-21 m-20yrs bomb-sept 23 2007 divorced but not giving up hope, not yethttp://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#post1224023
