Independence Day on the Lake Erie shore.....

[smartcookie]

This never ceases to amaze me. Really.
Puppy

Why does it amaze you ? Guys do it too. Everybody does it.

People want intimacy & want to be close. When they have it, they relax & do other things in life. When it threatens to go away, they work harder to have it back.

Where's the amazing part ?

[Neilh23]

The fact that a lot of what you are doing is orchestrated to get a response from her.

it is. not in a negative way though. I"m not completely ignoring her. i'm just choosing when and what to respond to. I know this woman pretty well, and i also know what to respond to.

Women who are hurting & desperate for a man's approval & acceptance, tend to respond to being ignored.

this is telling. i never thought of it that way. My W....many of our WAS's...isn't completely healthy.

So what's the long term goal Neil. Get her back, even if it's playing up her abandonment fears ? or.... get healthy with or without her ?

that right there is the problem for me. in the course of working with my IC, i started to see how unhealthy a relationship my W and I had. Am i healthier now? yes. do i still want my W in a completely new R? Yes. hard to describe........

thanks SC....

[Neilh23]

Women who are hurting & desperate for a man's approval & acceptance, tend to respond to being ignored.

to go along with this thought.....which would be better.....to start to detach from my W and move forward....which, in turn would play on HER fears of abandonment, not mine.....OR..... would it be better to stand pat, keep doing what i've been doing....all the nice things for her...showing that i still do care in every sense of the word, which only allows her to continue unimpeded on this path.

so IDk........in order to heal myself...i need to detach and move away from her...but every time i do, she sucks me back in with these small signs that indicate we still have a chance. and that she still does indeed need me. Maybe i'm reading them wrong....woudln't be the first time...LOL...

[mulesqb]

Oh, & puppy, HEALTHY women love nice guys. Women who are hurting & desperate for a man's approval & acceptance, tend to respond to being ignored.

Can't tell you how happy I am to hear that. Been losing a lot of faith lately.

So Sc - how do you think Neil should proceed here???

[Tawnya]

Now I'll be honest..that I WAS a person who couldn't stand to be ignored..thought it was really jerky of my hub to "ignore" me when I would be ranting or whatever..but, in all honesty, tho you'd THINK it would help your wife to NOT do that..really you are not helping HER by doing what she thinks she "needs"..because, in a way, your goal should be her getting healthier too..she needs to NOT be "coddled" and at some point figure out that needing that acceptance is not "healthy behavior"..not your job to tell her that..but also not good to "help feed her insecurity" if that makes sense?

Hope your day is good!

Tawnya

[Bworl]

Sometimes we get tunnel vision when we're in the midst of these messes. That tunnel vision can cause us to become rather rigid when it comes to what things are appropriate and what are not. This whole going dark/dim deal is presented in various ways across this board, sometimes in diametrically opposed fashion.

It's not that rigid in my opinion.

I can think of at least a couple of reasons that one might choose to go dark/dim on a walkaway spouse.


Perhaps you have a spouse who is hateful, spewing, and throwing their relationship with their adulterous partner in your face. These actions keep you in a perpetual state of emotional distress. In that case, going dark/dim is a self-preservation step, removing you from the constant presence of things that hurt you and keep you from working yourself back to health.


Or maybe you have a spouse who is treading awfully close to the cake-eating stage. They want away from you, but they don't seem to be able to live without you either. They don't want the marriage, but they want the two of you to be best buds. In their mind, divorce is just a subtle change to your relationship that allows them to remove themselves from the responsibility of a relationship and yet retain the relationship. In this case, going dark/dim may be done in an effort to help this spouse realize just what divorce really means and what it will be like. Few of us can divorce a spouse and go on being best buds.


Manipulation is one of those naughty words when it comes to relationships. Not sure why. Manipulation occurs in subtle forms throughout so many areas of our lives. When we're trying to buck for a promotion at work - when we're trying to convince our kids that they don't really need that new toy - when we're trying to get that amazing woman to realize that they are in love with us.


Yes, there is manipulation that is done with evil intent. But is that really what DB'ing is about? I don't think so.


In the throes of a mid-life crisis or an adulterous fling, I think it's safe to say that the wandering spouse is NOT always thinking clearly. I know that some of the women on this board who were/are WAS's have walked away for legitimate reasons, i.e. extremely poor behavior on the part of their husbands. But when a spouse of twenty plus years chooses to go bed another man because they are feeling bummed about getting older, and in the process rips apart what was once a generally healthy and vibrant family, THAT is NOT clear thinking.


The DB'ing techniques help US find our legs again. They also help us find ways to catch the eye of our spouse again. In many ways they use manipulation in the purer sense of the word - an effort to convince someone to do something that they said they do not want to do. Is it manipulation if you are trying to get someone to recognize what you believe is the TRUTH?


I agree with those who have said that motivation is a key factor here. I would also say that YOUR ATTITUDE is key. If Neil is doing this to PUNISH his wife for leaving him, then his motivations are flawed. Going dark/dim on his wife will NOT be effective, because she will pick up on his desire to punish her and she will resent (rightfully so) his efforts.


This IS a good discussion, one that we all benefit from having.


Blessings,

Bill

[Neilh23]

here's the thing...i'm NOT ignoring her. not in the slightest. if she needs to vent to me, she'll have my undivided attention...as long as i'm available. what i'm doing is stopping my 'waiting' for her to come around. I'm moving forward with my life.

why do people think i'm going to ignore her? there's a huge difference.

[Bworl]

"ignoring" = not returning messages

That's what I think perhaps some are calling ignoring.

My personal thoughts are that all people want to be acknowledged. It is possible to acknowledge a contact from anyone without engaging in an ongoing discussion. A short "ok" does not show weakness. And there certainly would be nothing wrong with waiting just a bit to send that response.

That being said, I've received messages (phone, email, or text) from friends in the past and not been able to respond in the same day. They don't get angry, they know that I have a life that sometimes precludes being able to respond immediately.

I assume that you are wanting your wife to know that you have a life outside of her. Of course the easy way to do that is to actually HAVE a life outside of her. One that will sometimes allow for an immediate response to her messages, and one that sometimes will not. But always one that will at least at some point acknowledge that she has contacted you.

The obvious exceptions for me would be messages that are accusatory or ranting.


Bill

[Neilh23]

Or maybe you have a spouse who is treading awfully close to the cake-eating stage. They want away from you, but they don't seem to be able to live without you either. They don't want the marriage, but they want the two of you to be best buds. In their mind, divorce is just a subtle change to your relationship that allows them to remove themselves from the responsibility of a relationship and yet retain the relationship. In this case, going dark/dim may be done in an effort to help this spouse realize just what divorce really means and what it will be like. Few of us can divorce a spouse and go on being best buds.

iMO.....my W is cake-eating. she has an OM, yet still looks for me to get her cigs. her ACTIONS when she is around me speak that she is STILL torn as to what hte right path is. She asks about my family....asks and pets the cats. Whenever i drift away, she starts to do things that reel me back in. If i'm reading her actions wrong, someone, please say so.

I agree with those who have said that motivation is a key factor here. I would also say that YOUR ATTITUDE is key. If Neil is doing this to PUNISH his wife for leaving him, then his motivations are flawed. Going dark/dim on his wife will NOT be effective, because she will pick up on his desire to punish her and she will resent (rightfully so) his efforts.

not even in the slightest am i doing this to punish my W. She chose this path. I'm choosing a different path than following her lead because of what its done to me and my family.

good discussion, yes.....

[Tawnya]

It's a tough call isn't it and a fine line to walk between the "do I ignore the no response needed calls" vs the "am I inabling her to think I hang on her every email/text"

Tawnya