Trixi aka "The Pitbull who can't let go"

[NikB]

(((Trixi)))

Well.. much as you want to help with SS, in some ways maybe it's a relief that H is "handling" it?

Yes-but not in the "daily" sense. More like a binger who can't stop once they get going.

Ahh well - this is probably good. I mean not GOOD good, but I hope that you're right and my concern/worry was off base.

Sheesh, I don't know how many times he has 'had' to tell me that there is a TON of opportunity out there for him to pick up women and he doesn't act on it. He just said it *again* this past week. Like he is some sort of hero or saint or something.

Somehow - I wish this surprised me. I can't really explain it, but I just wish it did. It's more of his "I'm the prize, you win me!" crap.

Now if you could get that attitude going YOURSELF...

From your Dr. H quote..

"But there's another possibility. The explanation he's giving you, that he just wants to see what it would be like to be in love with someone else, is so stupid and selfish that ordinarily I would reject it immediately. But quite frankly, if it turns out to be the real reason he's leaving, it would be strong evidence that he's sociopathic. If that's the case, he will get into all kinds of legal trouble, including drug use and other illegal activities, after he leaves. Maybe that's what you've been up against all these years. You may have been preventing him from making a mess of his life due to his very self-destructive instincts, and he's resented your positive influence."

and then later when I said there was absolutely no other woman "Exculsivity are extremely important in creating a passionate relationship, and your husband's wandering eye is a major factor in your relationship never quite coming together. However, I must repeat what I said earlier that anyone who leaves his wife just to see if there's something better out there has serious character issues."

WOW... I can see why you thought "yikes" at the time. And I hate to say it but I can totally see where he's coming from. I think he may just be on to something. Nothing that you can control, but I do think he might be on to something with your H.

I suppose the context is that whenever he is talking about how he doesn't know what he wants to do about the relationship HE adds in the thing about wanting to see where the music will go (as if it is an either/or proposition). My point was that he can still see where the music goes AND be married.

Ahh that makes more sense now.

Hmmm... you know I was just thinking, you guys have had this exact same conversation I don't even know how many times. Obviously it's not doing much. What about taking the opposite approach? Validate what he's saying... "Wow yes H I can see where that would be a tough decision." Or maybe even better - instead of arguing your point, tell him you're excited to see where things go with his music, too. Or, you're glad he's excited about it, or something - take it AWAY from the R/M talk rather than making it a point of disagreement. That doesn't mean you're agreeing that musicians can't be married - you're just not getting into the discussion.

I think that my H is more attached to the RM than to his son or me. I think that the RM is sort of tied up with the whole "I want to see where the music goes" deal. RM is on that adventure with him. RM is helping him "get there". So, I can see where RM would be the most important thing to H, given that music is the most important thing.

I used to joke that cars were the "OW" in my M. (yes this was before there was a bomb or an ACTUAL one! - somehow it's not funny anymore!). Anyway sounds like music is the "OW" in yours, almost. Difference being though that I was able to use that - support H in his racing, help him "get there." Is there any way you can think of to possibly do that with his music?

NOT that I think he deserves that much of your time/energy/attention right now... but just trying to brainstorm.

This reminded me of a story... dunno if it will help you or not but maybe? A friend of mine's boyfriend (well, STBXBF) of about 3 years has what she has aptly described as a SERIOUS one track mind. As in, if he's focusing on work right now, nothing else exists. She won't hear from him for weeks at a time while he's focused on work. Then all of a sudden, the focus shifts to her - it's all about her, all the time, to the point where she's almost smothered. He's in a job that's very cyclical where he'll be busy for weeks or months and then have weeks/months off, which I think is the only way their R even got this far! They've tried to work on it but he seriously just CANNOT do it - he can't find a way to let his brain multitask. She's trying now to break it off with him but having a hard time because - guess what? - he's focused on work right now and totally unresponsive to her. Right now he's traveling and she literally doesn't even know what country he's in. It's more extreme than your H for sure, but it reminds me of him and the music thing a bit.

The question my friend finally had to ask herself is whether she was willing to live like that forever and the answer was no. The thing that will be really hard for her is that when she finally gets his attention - she'll be getting showered with love, compliments, gifts, quality time doing things together - all the best things about him. She KNOWS this, so she's struggling with how hard it'll be to finally break things off. She's also looking forward to the freedom of knowing she's no longer tied to him and the cycle, though.

SS is unlikely to say anything because he "protected" his mother while she self-destructed and took SS with her. More than likely he will lie to protect my H; and I know this because he lied to me recently on several occassions about H's involvement in things to keep me from 'getting mad' at H.

Well... if he's serious about wanting to change, maybe he will learn to do something differently this time. If the counselor's any good hopefully they'll see through any lies or omissions.

But then he said something stupid "I might have to go to 'retard school'." I asked what he meant and he said "You know. Where you have to go take classes on drug and alchohol abuse." I said that maybe he would actually learn something and he said "yeah. maybe." in a very skeptical voice.

OK... I agree that was a totally stupid thing to say. But I wonder if more "validating" would have gotten you further here, too. It seems like a lot of times you "point out" things to him rather than validating. Maybe the validating would help him see you more as a friend or ally. I dunno.. just a thought.

I am torn. I know that looking at it pragmatically, I should run as fast as I can in the other direction. But I have been with him for almost 14 years. I helped raise his son for 8-9 years of that.

(((Trixi)))

I can really understand why you're so torn. As I was typing up that suggestion about validating so you're a friend more than a "pointer-outer" I was thinking ... but... does she want to be his "friend" on the path of self destructive behavior? If in fact that's the direction he's going, and will continue to go, I don't think you CAN be his "friend" - nevermind his W - because you won't (or hope you won't, anyway!) go down that road with him. I think if he decides to change - and I think you letting him go might actually contribute to that decision - THEN maybe you can be his friend and W again.

The hitting rock bottom may apply here, even if it's not an addiction issue.

Only this time the stakes are even higher. I'm sorry, I'm just venting. I am still a little in shock at the lack of response from H's parents. I feel like I am all alone out here.

I hate to say it but his parents' response (or lack thereof) really didn't surprise me. They're in a crummy place of having to accept some very bad things about their grandson - coupled with the fact that they're learning some ugly truths about their son. I imagine they were pretty darned overwhelmed and didn't quite know what to do? I'd also guess that your H is probably also giving THEM the "He's my son I'll handle it" line too.

Honestly in the long run I think ONLY SS can make the decision to help himself. Yes your H, you, his friends, etc. can SUPPORT him - and sadly it seems your H is choosing NOT to, at least when it comes to the living environment. But if SS is truly committed to it, he'll get the help he needs - including from the rehab place, where they will presumably tell him that an environment like the one at your H's is not healthy for him. They'll tell him that he needs people around him who SUPPORT him. If your H chooses not to be one of them... SS will have a tough decision to make in terms of finding a place to live. I think the only pieces of this you have any control over are 1. will you support him in his new lifestyle? (I assume the answer is yes there!), and 2. are you willing to offer your home as a possible place to live?

Yes, it totally sucks, and I feel bad for you stuck in such a helpless feeling position! I imagine you felt that way with your Dad more than once, too.

I just hope your SS is truly committed to changing his life. That's the one way it will change.

(((Trixi))))