Trixi aka "The Pitbull who can't let go"

[NikB]

(((Trixi)))

Well.. much as you want to help with SS, in some ways maybe it's a relief that H is "handling" it?

Yes-but not in the "daily" sense. More like a binger who can't stop once they get going.

Ahh well - this is probably good. I mean not GOOD good, but I hope that you're right and my concern/worry was off base.

Sheesh, I don't know how many times he has 'had' to tell me that there is a TON of opportunity out there for him to pick up women and he doesn't act on it. He just said it *again* this past week. Like he is some sort of hero or saint or something.

Somehow - I wish this surprised me. I can't really explain it, but I just wish it did. It's more of his "I'm the prize, you win me!" crap.

Now if you could get that attitude going YOURSELF...

From your Dr. H quote..

"But there's another possibility. The explanation he's giving you, that he just wants to see what it would be like to be in love with someone else, is so stupid and selfish that ordinarily I would reject it immediately. But quite frankly, if it turns out to be the real reason he's leaving, it would be strong evidence that he's sociopathic. If that's the case, he will get into all kinds of legal trouble, including drug use and other illegal activities, after he leaves. Maybe that's what you've been up against all these years. You may have been preventing him from making a mess of his life due to his very self-destructive instincts, and he's resented your positive influence."

and then later when I said there was absolutely no other woman "Exculsivity are extremely important in creating a passionate relationship, and your husband's wandering eye is a major factor in your relationship never quite coming together. However, I must repeat what I said earlier that anyone who leaves his wife just to see if there's something better out there has serious character issues."

WOW... I can see why you thought "yikes" at the time. And I hate to say it but I can totally see where he's coming from. I think he may just be on to something. Nothing that you can control, but I do think he might be on to something with your H.

I suppose the context is that whenever he is talking about how he doesn't know what he wants to do about the relationship HE adds in the thing about wanting to see where the music will go (as if it is an either/or proposition). My point was that he can still see where the music goes AND be married.

Ahh that makes more sense now.

Hmmm... you know I was just thinking, you guys have had this exact same conversation I don't even know how many times. Obviously it's not doing much. What about taking the opposite approach? Validate what he's saying... "Wow yes H I can see where that would be a tough decision." Or maybe even better - instead of arguing your point, tell him you're excited to see where things go with his music, too. Or, you're glad he's excited about it, or something - take it AWAY from the R/M talk rather than making it a point of disagreement. That doesn't mean you're agreeing that musicians can't be married - you're just not getting into the discussion.

I think that my H is more attached to the RM than to his son or me. I think that the RM is sort of tied up with the whole "I want to see where the music goes" deal. RM is on that adventure with him. RM is helping him "get there". So, I can see where RM would be the most important thing to H, given that music is the most important thing.

I used to joke that cars were the "OW" in my M. (yes this was before there was a bomb or an ACTUAL one! - somehow it's not funny anymore!). Anyway sounds like music is the "OW" in yours, almost. Difference being though that I was able to use that - support H in his racing, help him "get there." Is there any way you can think of to possibly do that with his music?

NOT that I think he deserves that much of your time/energy/attention right now... but just trying to brainstorm.

This reminded me of a story... dunno if it will help you or not but maybe? A friend of mine's boyfriend (well, STBXBF) of about 3 years has what she has aptly described as a SERIOUS one track mind. As in, if he's focusing on work right now, nothing else exists. She won't hear from him for weeks at a time while he's focused on work. Then all of a sudden, the focus shifts to her - it's all about her, all the time, to the point where she's almost smothered. He's in a job that's very cyclical where he'll be busy for weeks or months and then have weeks/months off, which I think is the only way their R even got this far! They've tried to work on it but he seriously just CANNOT do it - he can't find a way to let his brain multitask. She's trying now to break it off with him but having a hard time because - guess what? - he's focused on work right now and totally unresponsive to her. Right now he's traveling and she literally doesn't even know what country he's in. It's more extreme than your H for sure, but it reminds me of him and the music thing a bit.

The question my friend finally had to ask herself is whether she was willing to live like that forever and the answer was no. The thing that will be really hard for her is that when she finally gets his attention - she'll be getting showered with love, compliments, gifts, quality time doing things together - all the best things about him. She KNOWS this, so she's struggling with how hard it'll be to finally break things off. She's also looking forward to the freedom of knowing she's no longer tied to him and the cycle, though.

SS is unlikely to say anything because he "protected" his mother while she self-destructed and took SS with her. More than likely he will lie to protect my H; and I know this because he lied to me recently on several occassions about H's involvement in things to keep me from 'getting mad' at H.

Well... if he's serious about wanting to change, maybe he will learn to do something differently this time. If the counselor's any good hopefully they'll see through any lies or omissions.

But then he said something stupid "I might have to go to 'retard school'." I asked what he meant and he said "You know. Where you have to go take classes on drug and alchohol abuse." I said that maybe he would actually learn something and he said "yeah. maybe." in a very skeptical voice.

OK... I agree that was a totally stupid thing to say. But I wonder if more "validating" would have gotten you further here, too. It seems like a lot of times you "point out" things to him rather than validating. Maybe the validating would help him see you more as a friend or ally. I dunno.. just a thought.

I am torn. I know that looking at it pragmatically, I should run as fast as I can in the other direction. But I have been with him for almost 14 years. I helped raise his son for 8-9 years of that.

(((Trixi)))

I can really understand why you're so torn. As I was typing up that suggestion about validating so you're a friend more than a "pointer-outer" I was thinking ... but... does she want to be his "friend" on the path of self destructive behavior? If in fact that's the direction he's going, and will continue to go, I don't think you CAN be his "friend" - nevermind his W - because you won't (or hope you won't, anyway!) go down that road with him. I think if he decides to change - and I think you letting him go might actually contribute to that decision - THEN maybe you can be his friend and W again.

The hitting rock bottom may apply here, even if it's not an addiction issue.

Only this time the stakes are even higher. I'm sorry, I'm just venting. I am still a little in shock at the lack of response from H's parents. I feel like I am all alone out here.

I hate to say it but his parents' response (or lack thereof) really didn't surprise me. They're in a crummy place of having to accept some very bad things about their grandson - coupled with the fact that they're learning some ugly truths about their son. I imagine they were pretty darned overwhelmed and didn't quite know what to do? I'd also guess that your H is probably also giving THEM the "He's my son I'll handle it" line too.

Honestly in the long run I think ONLY SS can make the decision to help himself. Yes your H, you, his friends, etc. can SUPPORT him - and sadly it seems your H is choosing NOT to, at least when it comes to the living environment. But if SS is truly committed to it, he'll get the help he needs - including from the rehab place, where they will presumably tell him that an environment like the one at your H's is not healthy for him. They'll tell him that he needs people around him who SUPPORT him. If your H chooses not to be one of them... SS will have a tough decision to make in terms of finding a place to live. I think the only pieces of this you have any control over are 1. will you support him in his new lifestyle? (I assume the answer is yes there!), and 2. are you willing to offer your home as a possible place to live?

Yes, it totally sucks, and I feel bad for you stuck in such a helpless feeling position! I imagine you felt that way with your Dad more than once, too.

I just hope your SS is truly committed to changing his life. That's the one way it will change.

(((Trixi))))

[Loving_Life]

Hey Trixi,

Sorry I haven't been on for awhile- I read your latest posts.

I think that my H is more attached to the RM than to his son or me. I think that the RM is sort of tied up with the whole "I want to see where the music goes" deal. RM is on that adventure with him. RM is helping him "get there". So, I can see where RM would be the most important thing to H, given that music is the most important thing.

I don't remember if I told you this but my H/stbx is a musician too- and we were together 14 yrs also... He's in exactly the same place about how the music is #1 and he's now got an RM who is in his mid 20's to help pay the mortgage on the house. His RM is a tech for the band and a new partner in his recording studio. He thinks this life is way better than our M or any R with a woman could possibly be. It's one thing to be passionate about music, but it's a huge attitude problem to act like women get in the way and that's BS you do not deserve. You deserve so much better, right?! My stbx has also had issues with drugs... and his RM of course smokes a ton too- which is not helping him. My heart goes out to you.... You can have a better man than this and so can I!!!

[Trixi]

Wow-Loving_Life; sounds we are practically married to the same guy!

My H just called on speaker phone with stepson. And I got to listen to them argue for 40 minutes. My H calling SS names. SS being rude back. However, I have to say that SS was more lucid than H. H had obviously been drinking.

At one point, H threw something in SS's face about his sitch not being "normal" and SS threw back "Like having a DUI is normal, DAD!" And do you know what my H did? He first started with "I don't have a DUI. It might be downgraded to wreckless driving." I said that wasn't SS's point- the point was that H couldn't drive him to work- and couldn't drive period for 90 days. So then H is so pissed for being called out, he says to SS "Fine. I'm not going to go back east with you. You can go on your own. Find your own way. F you." ?!?!?! SS managed to bring it back down; but they way they talked to each other was horrible. Then they would ask me what I thought and then they would each get defensive. It is BEYOND screwed up over there. To my SS's credit, he has not had any substance for 9 days now. But the way my H talks to him...it's awful. And I know how SS pushes his buttons and get's a really crappy attitude.

Nik, you took such a long time to respond to me! And it was such a thoughtful post. I can't even think to respond right now I feel so tired. Well, I did want to respond to the "can I support him in his music" question. When he wanted to try out for RockStar, I was supportive. I would compliment his music. He would ask me to critique his singing. And if he was saying to me "I love you. I want our marriage to work, AND I want to see where music can go" I would wholeheartedly support him. I have connections; I could help him. But I have a real hard time supporting him right now since he has clearly made it "me" or "the music". Heck, while we were still together he announced he was afraid he would cheat because "you know how women are with lead singers of bands." Comments like that make it tough to rally be supportive.

*sigh*

Why can't I just walk away?
Loving Life, what's the latest with you? Have you walked away? Do you get out there and do stuff?

[Loving_Life]

But I have a real hard time supporting him right now since he has clearly made it "me" or "the music". Heck, while we were still together he announced he was afraid he would cheat because "you know how women are with lead singers of bands." Comments like that make it tough to rally be supportive.

I know! You know what doesn't make sense to me is how they get into the mentality of "you" or "music" even when it's so obvious you are supporting them. I had this conversation many times w. my H and I remember mentioning successful musicians who were M. Or that I wasn't standing in the way- I was proud of his commitment and his passion. I gave him so much "space" and he always had tons of time alone to work in his studio. What my H finally told me is that it was about money and time. (I think my H is more of a severe case) He felt like he wanted to spend 100% of his time on his music and that did not leave any place in his life for a relationship. Also, in my sitch- he doesn't work any other jobs- so he wanted to scrape by on $$ from his music only and that meant it was a burden for him to 'provide' to a wife or family. In any case, whatever the reasons are- the whole "you" or "the music" thing feels like an lame excuse. Ok- that was my rant!

[

Loving Life, what's the latest with you? Have you walked away? Do you get out there and do stuff?

Yep, I am walking away right now- mostly b/c I think I deserve better and I think my M has little chance for success at this point. If for any reason he made steps to show any interest in me I might reconsider- but all he wants to talk about is the D settlement- so I think my sitch may be done.. We talk once a month if that (and live 2,000 miles apart right now) I am having a lot of fun getting out and meeting new people!!

BTW- Did you mention you're an artist too? I am as well (visual artist). Where are you located? I'm in Portland!

[NikB]

((((Trixi))))

No worries about responding - whenever you feel up to it if you do at some point.

About the music - sounds like you did really support him so that IS even weirder. Might be sorta like LL's H... just can't comprehend having both at once. You sure do deserve better.

I'm so sorry for all the crap your H is putting you through right now. And proud of your SS for making it 9 days, especially in the environment he's in! That's great. What do you think about YOU going back east with SS? Or is that just not an option?

Well, no big long post this time, just wanted to let you know I was thinking of you.

[NikB]

PS - I think it's definitely time to do something to pamper yourself today! Bubble bath? Nails done? Get a massage? Some fresh flowers for your house? Just something to make you smile in the midst of all this.

[Trixi]

Thanks Nik.

I think I am going to lay low today; clean the house really good. Tomorrow a guy is coming over for lunch and to work on a puzzle with me. It's a 1000 piece puzzle of all sorts of 'game' things. (Dominoes, poker chips, cards, chess pieces, etc). He's a roofer I know and I have sent him some referrals. We're going to also be brainstorming on ideas to drum up business. (Door hangers, postcards, etc.)
I do have a itty bitty, teeny weeny crush on him. He's about my age, divorced, older kids, cute, smart.

I have been listening to some CDs and the coach basically is teaching how to love yourself, quit overfunctioning, let the man be the man, get in touch with your feelings, etc. One of her biggest points is that until the man tells you he wants YOU, that you should keep your options open. IOW, don't be a girlfriend. Date as many guys as possible until you are a fiance/wife to one. Don't sleep with them all. It's okay to be exclusive with one person for sex, but don't cut off all the rest of your options. Wow, that is not reading very well....Actually, it sounds a lot like what my H proposed to me last summer-- that we would be phsyically exclusive and that "platonic dating" was ok. Being loyal to him, when he appears to only be loyal to me because he hasn't spotted something better, is foolish.
The reason she suggests dating is to practice skills. Such as speaking using feelings; maintaining boundaries; flirting; leaning back and letting the guy do the work-- stuff that is much easier to do when you don't have a bunch invested and you don't 'care' what the guy thinks. Learn to be yourself and not walk on eggshells. ("dating" is lunch dates, coffee dates, maybe a movie, dinner-- light stuff. Keep it all low key.)

Hey Nik- did you ever come up with something "bigger" than you and your H to work on?

[Trixi]

Wow, that is weird, I had responded to L_L and it disappeared. Weird.

So, to L_L-- I live in Seattle area. I have thought about going down to Portland because they have some glass shops I wanted to check out. Maybe one day I can come down there and we can whoop it up.
For a living, I "sell" (haha) real estate. I wouldn't call myself and artist, per se, more like a crafter. I do lampwork beads (make glass beads on a small torch), stained glass, fuse glass, make jewelry/wire wrap, scrapbook, embroider, cross stitch, quilt, paint ceramics, acrylic and water color painting, a little Precious Metal Clay, Fimo/sculpey stuff...right now the bead making is my fave thing. I don't think I will get tired of it.

What sort of artist are you? Is that how you make a living? You sound like you are doing very well mentally. Probably helps that he is so far away, there is nothing to do BUT move forward with your own life...

[Loving_Life]

Hey Trixi,

Ooh I love beads, jewelry making and sewing/needlework too! Haven't done glass work yet, that sounds fun. I'm a graphic designer and painter/illustrator primarily. But I love working with all kinds of materials! I've done some mixed media paintings- attaching beads, fiber and clay onto the canvas. I'd love to see pics of your stuff- do you post anywhere online? I'm making a japanese quilt for my new bed right now..

A get together sounds fun! I'd like to check out Seattle sometime next year too...:D

I've been meeting a lot of new people through meetup.com groups- there are tons of groups here in PNW! So, yep, focusing on my 'new' life pretty much right now.

[Trixi]

Journaling
Spent much of my time since the 12th driving my H and SS around. Sunday night, RM wrecked his truck while driving on the ice, so I had to pick up H and RM at their work, and SS at his. H suggested we all go out to dinner, so we did.

If I didn't care for the sitch with the RM before, NOW I *really* don't like it. And my H is quite daft. There was a quiz going on at the restuarant and the question was re Eva Longoria and my H says "OMG, She's f'ing HOT". Got sorta quiet at the table and RM says "meh. she's a midget." That's not the problem. The problem was when RM says "Dude, remember on Halloween all those girls at the place?! blah blah blah" I don't know what else was said because the blood was rushing in my ears. H tried to change it to "Yeah. Heh. Remember that girl that came up to you and said she loved you? that was crazy."

Something about that ticked me off royal. Maybe it was just how stupid it was for the RM to bring it up; maybe because it just showed how unimportant I am in H's life. I can't even explain it. Maybe like this-- let's say "the guys" go out for a boys night out. And lets say there is some flirting, but nothing bad happens. Guys see signifigant other of one of the guys; if they thought the guy was truly in a R, they wouldn't bring up the boys night out in front of the girl. Right?

Next day, take H and SS to counseling. SS told counselor about alchohol being left out in the house. H says that he is "fine" with SS drinking. Counselor says to SS "are you an alchoholic?" H chimes in "No, he's not." C says pointedly to SS "Do YOU think you're an alchoholic?" SS says "Well, I have an addictive personality and once I get going, it is really hard for me to stop. So, yes, I think so." C turns to H and says "You canNOT offer him alchohol. It should be locked up." H was like "uh huh. ok." C says "no. Really. Do you get it?? He's an alchoholic. Do you understand??"
Heh-wonder what would happen if she knew about the pot. Actually, SS accidentally did say something like "RM doesn't have to worry about my Dad going into his room and taking his weed." etc etc. His dad let out a nervous laugh and tried to move the subject along. Afterwards, he told SS to be more careful to not say anything about the pot to the counselor because she could call the probation officer.
That doesn't seem right to me. I mean, if the counselor doesn't understand the entire scope, wth is the point of counseling??

SS wants to tell about the weed in the house, but is afraid she will call his probation officer. I don't think she can do that...?

SS HATES how RM has changed his dad. SS made a joke about RM being H's 'boyfriend' and H got really defensive. H told C that RM lives there because they are trying to start a band. SS wonders why he can't live somewhere else like the rest of the band members. (Good point.)

When SS first moved in, he said that he didn't think there should be weed in the house. Originally H agreed. Then SS tells RM this (why *H* didn't tell RM this is beyond me) and RM says "God! Your living here is a real PITA. I hate how you have moved in and disrupted MY life." (and he continued on from there-with a bunch of F bombs thru out.) I have seen RM say REALLY RUDE things to SS. And H never steps in.

I have been wrestling with offering to have SS move in with me. My house a bit over half the size of the other house..I don't have the financial resources. But, SS could walk to work if he worked down the road. (Not possible where he lives now.) I would have no problem with providing a clean environment....but he may be more than I can handle. And it was *H* who wanted him to come out here.

SS said "Kinda feels like Dad wants you to be my Mom when it comes to driving me around/helping out, but not when it comes to having any influence on my living conditions....but I'm sure it's not really like that." Keen observation on his part.
Also said "Seems like Dad holds RM in higher esteem than he does you."

Yesterday H IM'd me lyrics to a song he's writing. Wanted to know what I thought; if I could help him get it to flow better. It basically was about all his ups and downs and how he has gone off in certain directions, made bad choices, but he's coming back around. The final verse was to the affect of 'don't you know that I love you? I want to be here forever.' etc. (Don't want to post the "real" lyrics out on the web.) The basic gist was that he left and came back. Anyway, that last verse made me bawl my eyes out.

I said "Honestly, the last verse made me cry. I would give my left nut (if I had one) to have that said to me. I am sure many people will be able to relate." and you know what he said "Your left nut, huh? Why is it always the left one?" I answered back because most are right handed and still want easy access to play with it. ha ha. sigh.

Ever since reading that verse, I have been in a really bad state of mind. Crying on and off. It's like looking at candy thru a glass case and not getting to have any. The longing that it brought out in me is palpable. He DOES have it in him. and he won't give it to ME. The song was auto-biographical; I want that last verse to be for me.