Mike, Kerry, Donna, Ali, Kalni, Nut, bizarre, and RMG - Thanks for chiming in. I'm not going to say much if anything at all about it. She can talk, but I'll just move the subject over or do some combination of what you all suggested to let her know it isn't appropriate or more importantly, I no longer care.
I do agree w/ bizarre as I need to understand and establish better boundaries w/ her. I've got to say, I'm just a bit dumbfounded when she does this and I'm caught off guard. I know there should be NOTHING from this woman that should surprise me, but it still does. Oh, well.
She ended up e-mailing me today and apologizing for possibly overstepping her bounds. However, she said she thought she overstepped her bounds by asking about what we were planning on doing for Christmas and what the joint message on Santa giving gifts was going to be w/ our D b/c D and I will be flying to Seattle on Christmas Day.
I actually think we should be on the same page w/ these stories and I told her that. I mean if it is time to tell her the Easter Bunny isn't real, that should be something we both decide on, I think. Anyway, she was really sheepish in her letter and apologized and felt badly about asking what types of clothes I have at the house for D.
Again, I think it is necessary for her and I to talk about what clothes our D has where and what she needs. Since D spends the majority of the time w/ XW, I've sent her most of the cold weather clothes I have b/c they'll just sit here if I don't as D brings clothes w/ her whenever she comes over. I have the essentials, but I let XW have the rest so we could figure out a plan. Now she's apologizing for "prying" by asking about the clothes in my house for D. I don't think this is a bad thing to share info on. Am I nuts?
Anyway, what would have been great is if she would have said "I'm sorry for overstepping my bounds by telling you people like me and want me at work just to get you to react even though I divorced you and treated you like dirt just to avoid facing my own crazy, suppressed, childhood issues." That is what she should be apologizing for, not asking about Santa and D's clothing supply at my house.
Oh, well. I'll have a better chance of having ice water in Hell than seeing that one come around.
Hey Rob, So...I finally found your thread... Sounds like your XW is still looking for that kind of validation that she'll never find until she looks into herself - and while it's frustrating and insulting to have to hear how her insecurity manifests itself in conversations with you, I think it's best just to remember that nothing she has to say now is about you - (even if she's trying to make jealous) - just as her fictions weren't about you before either.
The similarities between your XW and my W just baffle me...just after she dropped the bomb she decided to share a story with me about a producer on a gig she was working on who asked her if she wanted one last fling before she got married...it was a four-year-old memory that she just had to bring up for no reason, other than to make me think of her as someone desirable to other men...but all it really did was make me think, hm, was she really giving off that kind of signal of availability even just before we got married? (this was literally two weeks before our wedding).
Still...very recently...just before she moved out...and in one of her rare moments of rational conversation - she asked me why I was so frustrated with her over the years, and I, sucked into the lure of reason, said that part of it was because she never let me feel comfortable and confident in her love for me or her commitment to our relationship/marriage since she was constantly getting into inappropriate friendships with "paternal" type men. Her response: "you know you never really had to worry about that." My quiet response (which I just kept in the silence of my head): "have you already forgotten that you had an affair just five months after we were married?"
All of this by way of saying...yes, you have to re-establish those boundaries on your terms - since if your XW shares this "boundary" problem that my wife does, she'll just continue to make her rules...and expect you to live by them...which reminds me of what you wrote on the first page of this thread - that she made the decisions...it's time for that to stop when it comes to your interactions. Sure, you can ignore her, but that won't let her know that the rules have changed and you are no longer going to accept her lack of respect for you. That's not to say you have to argue with her - or take the bait - or put her down or bring up the past - Make your response to stuff about you - and the fact that you don't appreciate comments like that because they seem disrespectful toward you...and you would rather your conversations be civil and respectful (or something like that)...
Now I'm going to jump back to my thread and see what's up there...
I've been busy all week and then had my D this weekend, so now I'm trying to play catch-up.
I'm prepared now if XW tries that move again. I'll simply let her know that I'm not comfortable discussing this w/ her anymore so these types of discussions are off limits.
I won't have to, or need to, get ugly w/ her, but I will let her know if/when they reappear.
As for me, I'm ok. Money is tight right now and I need to get this house out of my hands and soon. I also got a really pissy letter from my L b/c I told him I'd need more time to pay him back. He was condescending and rude when he really didn't need to be. Oh, well. I realized after he got me nothing in my D that I wasn't too fond of him, and now I see he really only cares about the money (as they all do), so he can wait w/ the rest of my creditors.
As for XW, I figured out a BIG reason why she likes her new BF - He drinks w/ her!!! When I dropped D off w/ them on Sunday, W had a glass of wine (as usual) and BF had a mixed drink. So, they are drinking buddies as well. My stopping drinking was another nail in the coffin of our M, I guess. I would have looked for her to not drink either, so it is no wonder she took off.
It was much easier for her to leave, make up lies, and destroy our family than it would be for her to confront her past as well as her drinking.
Last thing...D broke down crying twice this weekend talking about our D. She first said "why did you have to yell at Mommy and make her leave?" To which I told her "there were things I did that made Mommy said and I worked on them, but Mommy decided she still couldn't be married to me any more." I then added "Yes, Daddy did make mistakes, but Mommy made mistakes too. Daddy has done work so he won't make those mistakes again."
She then continued and said "Does Mommy not want to be w/ you b/c she's w/ (BF)?" And I told her that Mommy is happy w/ (BF) right now." D's response: "That isn't right. You just don't stop loving someone and leave them b/c you like someone else."
Got to say at least she gets it...unlike her mother.
She also said she liked it when we were all together, and I agreed that I liked it too, but now we'll need to make the most of the time we do get to spend w/each other.
Another time this weekend, she asked if I could still kiss Mommy, to which I said, well, if Mommy wanted to kiss Daddy and Daddy wanted to kiss Mommy, we could, but Mommy is very happy w/ (BF) now. D said "I wish she'd kiss you instead of (BF)."
Breaks my heart to see this effect on her. XW has ZERO idea what D is going through b/c D says NONE of this to her. So, in a way I'm glad to know she feels safe talking about it w/ me.
That is all I can do for her right now. I just hope my actions will be able to counter-act her mother's negative ones over time.
Rob: My heart goes out to you, my friend... Here's something that I can offer you, though. My first marriage ended when my S11 was very young as well - though that marriage ended very differently - as it was very mutual and neither of us made any effort to keep it going - we just knew that we were not right for one another....but here's what I want to get to - my relationship with my S11 is incredible - and, like your daughter, he tells me things that let me know that he feels safe and comforted by being with me. Not that his mother is anything like your XW or my W - in fact, I'm still good friends with his mother - and have even talked about the fact that we might not have been right for one another as husband and wife - but we are good at being friends to one another...not that it's always been this way - at first, she was very angry with me about the divorce - and tried to get a lot out of me - and even got in the way of letting me see my son - but once I made the decision that I would always be there for him no matter what - there was just nothing anyone could do to harm my relationship with him.
Your daughter sounds like such a smart, sweet girl - and I know how hard it is when our children cry - but even in the darkest of times we can show them how to be strong - and how to be true to themselves. One thing that has continued to surprise me about my situation is that my S11 still tells me that he has a great life - even that he had a great summer (he spends summers with me - and my W dropped the bomb on my birthday in May). So, somehow, I managed to protect him from being harmed by the most painful experience of my life...and it comforts me to know that no matter what happens in my life, I can be a good father to my children. From everything you say and do, I can see that the same is true for you - and that will keep your daughter safe and strong throughout her life.
RTL, The only thing I can add is maybe it would help if at some point you say to D," I am not sure why Mommy does things, maybe you could ask her" All you can answer for you, D will eventually learn that her parents are completely separate people living life apart. It might take some time for her to get used to this.
Good Morning, I am sorry about having to answer to your Ds "reasonable questions"... I've noticed kids dont ask therWAs, they always ask the LBSs. Probably because they feel ther will get some hope from them...
Last thing...D broke down crying twice this weekend talking about our D. She first said "why did you have to yell at Mommy and make her leave?" To which I told her "there were things I did that made Mommy said and I worked on them, but Mommy decided she still couldn't be married to me any more." I then added "Yes, Daddy did make mistakes, but Mommy made mistakes too. Daddy has done work so he won't make those mistakes again."
She then continued and said "Does Mommy not want to be w/ you b/c she's w/ (BF)?" And I told her that Mommy is happy w/ (BF) right now." D's response: "That isn't right. You just don't stop loving someone and leave them b/c you like someone else."
Got to say at least she gets it...unlike her mother.
She also said she liked it when we were all together, and I agreed that I liked it too, but now we'll need to make the most of the time we do get to spend w/each other.
Well handled Rob--honest, age-appropriate and kind. Way to take the high road.
In the long term, I wonder if you won't end up with more time with your daughter as she begins to impede your XW's adolescent lifestyle.
Glad to hear from you. Thanks for the positive words and feedback. Who knows what the future will bring, but it is comforting to know that D will talk to me about her confusion and not my XW. Kalni, I don't know why this is either, but your theory may be spot on.
Carlos, Sunshine, and bizarre. As always, thanks for coming by and putting in your thoughts. I will continue to just do what I can on my end and hope I can limit the damage to my baby at least a little bit. XW is selfish and absorbed w/ herself, so I'm really the true one who is looking out for D and I'll gladly wear that uniform any day.
Gypsy, you were right that the actions of XW do still hurt me, but not in the sense that I want her back. No, she's way too broken and in denial for that to be healthy. However, I am frustrated w/her actions and I'm saddened by her decision to run, blame, and deny rather than fight b/c of what it is doing to our D. That is the only thing that hurts - seeing D in pain over something that her mother didn't have the guts to stick out and fight for.
In the end, my XW claims she left me for the sake of our D. The truth is she left so she could continue to not work on herself, not face her past issues, and not have to give up drinking. Our D was pulled along as an instrument of control. Now, she's the casualty and I'm focusing on healing her wounds in the best way that I can.
