Hey Jayce - Yeah her dog is cute for sure... oh and spoiled too. W's parents had a rotten marriage. Her dad is now deceased (diabetic/heart attack). Anyway when he was still around they were very nasty to one another, I mean talked in a way that if my wife did it to me I'd already be gone. Very disrespectful and hateful and no affection at all. They slept in separate bedrooms, basically warring house mates. I have no idea how or even why they stayed together.
My mother-in-law is a very creative and interesting person. I really enjoy talking to her and she can be fun to be around. However, she has a negative outlook on life. As far as sex only for making babies, yes that would probably fit my MIL but not my W. We even had a conversation very early in our relationship about how different our generation is than our parents (both our dads were WWII vets and moms about the same age) and how we can enjoy sex, so there is no mental "this is dirty" hang up for her.
I've said this before, her attitude is we are getting to the age where she just has no interest in this anymore. Old people don't have sex. Mommies don't have sex. Sex is only for 20 somethings then it's over.
It does scare me that what I have now could be as good as it gets and I could be screwing up an otherwise pretty good relationship. If I stay and our sex life never changes, I know my beast would come out again and I know I would end up in an affair again. I don't want to live that way any longer.
It's give all my love and affection my wife or give all my love and affection to someone else. At least I would be living honestly instead of living a lie as I was. If it came to me leaving and starting over, of course there is no certainty to finding someone any better.... there would be at least some hope for it to happen though.
I did do the follow up call and the hiring manager was out of the office both days I called. He does a lot of field repair work and is out a lot evidently. I'll call again today. I just feel like they've left me hanging a little too long now.
"Due to the current economic conditions, we have a hiring freeze in place. We will be reviewing applications for new hires again after the first of the year. Feel free to check back with us then." ....sigh
Sunday night I had my first chance for ML in 3 weeks. She took her "green light" shower before bedtime. It was so late though by the time we got in bed. It was another 11th hour Sunday night obligation from her. She came to bed in one of her ugly baggy flannel nightshirt things. I didn't want any part of it and acted like I was asleep when she turned the light off.
With my back to her, I lay there wondering how much longer I can stay in a relationship that ended so many years ago (never even became a full relationship really). I don't even know this woman and she doesn't know me. How could we be together so long and yet not really know one another? I don't even know her dreams, her fantasies or her desires because she won't share them with me. I would share mine with her but she doesn't want to hear them or thinks they are silly. Not only are we sex-starved, we are intimacy-starved as well.
She started to touch my back, although her hand was on top of the covers. I couldn't feel her fingers touching because there was too much between us. It was just like our whole relationship, the layers between us never have allowed us to get really close, to really touch each other, truly know one another. If she had just put her hand under the covers to show that she really wanted to touch me. She didn't so I lay there pretending like I'm asleep. I didn't want to start anything with her again because it would give me false hope that things will ever change between us.
I realize now that she will never open herself to me. She doesn't want this and there is nothing left in me to fight for it anymore. I have given all that I can to this and still nothing has changed. I feel so empty and sad right now. The worst thing is that she has no idea what I am feeling. I can't share this with her now because I just don't want to anymore.
DQ - Yes, the New Year, I will wait until then. I can't ruin an already crummy Christmas for everyone. So I will wait before I do anything.
I do have a little piece of good news. The hiring manager from audio job that I really wanted called this afternoon. Someone else there had told me about the hiring freeze, but I found that out when I had called them. This time he called me. He apologized about how things were going for them economically and told me that he hated to let a great guy like me slip through his fingers. If I was still on the job market after the first of the year he'd love to hear from me again, he also added that I would be a great fit for the shop. So maybe the shop's business will pick back up after the first of the year. He did say that this time of year was also a slow period for them too, so maybe I can get in there after all.
I know what you mean about the night clothes. I have bought many - and most not the see thru impractical ones - silky and semi sexy ones but usable - and my wife wears them once and I never seem to see them again. She goes straight back to boring blah type ones. She told me she likes when I buy that stuff for her but it is apparent that is just lip service. I have given up on them and probably won't buy any in the future.
I also know what you mean about talking about intamacy and/or sex and getting the avoidance routine. Is a drag - but I've decided as it seems to bring more tension and anxousness than any closeness it seems better to just not try / go there. Guess I'm a coward
I think at times maybe my (others also maybe ?) hopes and wants as far as closeness is maybe unrealistic. I am thinking more and more lately that just getting along and not fighting is all that can be hoped for and maybe is more the norm for marriage. I have been trying to view things a little more "outside the box" and am thinking/realizing I don't know any couples that are really close like I was thinking/hoping my marriage would be. I am lowering my hopes. It actually seems to be helping me as I feel more calm.
Sorry I misspelled Homunculus. Since you're still at loose ends for awhile, hit the library and get the Sex on the Brain book. There are some amazing things about how male & female brains are wired differently. I mentioned this to Bagheera earlier this evening. So much of our inability to communicate well with each other is driven by the mutual misunderstanding that we should think alike. We don't. We can't. Part of it has been reassuring. We talk, you don't. When H is silent, I'm often thinking he's not in a good mood, mulling over negative things about me or our last conversation, maybe sulking. Revelation: he's probably not thinking about anything.
One of the strategies in the Getting Through to the Man you Love" book is "do something different" An example was a couple similar to you two. Michelle's suggestion was for the wife to do all the initiating for sex. The H was very skeptical. VERY. First week, nothing. Second week twice. After that, they were together 2-3 times a week. Taking away the pressure & giving her the reins allowed her to get back in touch w/her own sexuality, desire.
I got invited to have fun in the afternoon again Sunday! Two weeks in a row that I've felt he's actually getting into it for his own enjoyment instead of just trying to keep me from flipping out. Maybe we'll get to twice a week one of these days. The main thing I'm thinking is that in a couple months it'll wind down to nothing again if we (I) don't keep it a priority. If nothing else motivates him, the fact that I'm a lot easier to get along with if we ML regularly oughta do the trick. LOL
Time to quit. Still freezing in here. Haven't moved the furniture around yet. Hang tough. J
me: 66 H:60 2 adult sons 2 grandsons adult daughter deceased 5/05 me:Part time trainer H: plant suprv.
Sorry to see your feeling basically the same thing I am. Sucks doesn't it..... I don't get it either. All I can say is hang in there, and lets cross our fingers together so to speak.
Hey Jayce - No problem on the misspell, the search engines suggest the correct spelling so I found it anyway. Very interesting stuff. I'll add "Sex on the Brain" to my already long reading list. I just got "The New Male Sexuality" ($7 used hard cover) and started reading it. Still reading M/V and SSM too.
Actually I am doing something very different already. I haven't initiated in over 3 weeks now and I can sense that she knows something is up. Last night she was touching my back without response from me again. No response because I am feeling very withdrawn and disconnected from her now. I haven't been giving her greeting hugs and kisses either.
Giving the reins to her allows her to get exactly what she wants: No sex at all and a friendly platonic relationship devoid of any kind of passion or true connection. Just a few pats on the back and smacking kisses once in a while. Sorry, not the way I want to live anymore, that's not living at all to me.
The tables have turned on her not because I'm hoping that she will finally come around to see how to truly live. I'm now hoping that she will release me and see that we are hopelessly bound to one another in a relationship that really won't ever move past this deadlock we have been in for about 17 years. Instead of growing we are just stuck. I'm now ready to move past this point. She would be content to live out the rest of her life as we are now.
I love this woman dearly, but there is just something missing between us, that true connection. I am just a convenience to her but I am not her lover. At this point I don't want to be anyway.
I'm just trying to let go now.
Jayce, I'm glad to hear that you are at least making some progress now. If he is enjoying this now, that's great. You may just get up to that 2-3 times a week.
Cinco, you are where I was w/ex H all those years ago. Just didn't care enough to bother anymore. Saw him as more of a "brother" than lover. There was quite a bit of bitter disappointment in the mix as well. Thing is he still had a libido, just never seemed to matter more than his obsessional hobby. Told me to be glad he wasn't a golfer. Huh? Hard to see where it would have been any worse.
Counseling: our county has services based on what you can pay (with or without insurance). I think its called Family & Children's Services now. I used to refer people to it when our co. didn't have an employee assistance program. Psychologists I knew all said it was a good program with lots of oversight by psych/medical pros. It is possible your state/county has something similar. They start w/intake interview to see what kind of services you need or would benefit from. They have several locations and convenient hours. If you don't hit it off with one counselor, you can switch to another.
In August, I got a Cheap Trick CD & played I Want You to Want Me 3 or 4 times in a row, high volume. I got "Alright, alright, alright, I get it" I did it again a couple weeks later. These were Saturdays when he came in after yard work. This all started a year ago when he first said he had no libido & he didn't care. He always said he didn't know why not. The second time I played it, he started walking away & I stopped him and said "I want you to want to want me. I need you to think about why you don't. I need you to think about when you did and what changed." That's when I read "The New Male.." I hoped it'd get him to think about it.(He's still less than halfway thru it).
I think probably part of it is health related, but considering he's on the LD side to begin with..... The challenge is to get the LD or ND person to think about how they feel about sex. Whether they ever were sexual/sensual, what their attitude toward it is. I'm guessing they aren't clueless, they just don't want to admit or confront it. Too hard to deal with. It is difficult for me to understand why a person who is orgasmic wouldn't want to have sex, assuming a partner they care for. I guess women have an advantage, we can tell for sure. No way a guy can fake it.
I get that guys, by nature, don't talk. But we women are such blabbermouths by nature, its strange that your W won't talk about it. Did she know about your affairs? I'd think the threat of losing you to someone else would cause a change. Puzzling.
My last suggestion is to talk w/her ob/gyn yourself. Ask her what the problem could be & how to deal w/it. Going around and around in the same circle only makes you feel worse. Well, not quite the last suggestion. Rent a bunch of comedy movies. Sit around laughing like a couple of fools. Someone did that for me a long time ago. It was great! J
me: 66 H:60 2 adult sons 2 grandsons adult daughter deceased 5/05 me:Part time trainer H: plant suprv.
....sigh
So maybe the shop's business will pick back up after the first of the year. He did say that this time of year was also a slow period for them too, so maybe I can get in there after all. 