Trixi aka "The Pitbull who can't let go"

[NikB]

Really?!?!? That would be so cool!!

December is totally packed for me... between the holidays, H's BD, and several friends' BDs, every weekend's double or triple booked.

Allllthough... we're having a big New Year's bash if you're interested! Not much "chit chat" time but I bet it'll be fun.

January so far is pretty much wide open...

[Trixi]

Hmmm....January. I just got some new buyers this week that can only go out on Saturdays, but if we find something in the next couple weeks, I will have a better idea how Jan should be shaping up.

H came over last night. I actually decided that I would stop protecting him from my feelings and said as much.

*Told him I didn't like the lack of communication thru out the week and he was agreeing before I could even finish the sentence.

*I told him that he is supposed to give to me and then I give back; that currently I am doing WAY more than my fair share in the R while he sits back and all he has to do is arrive. I am sick and tired of always pushing the R up the hill while he watches and his big 'contribution' is to drive 25 minutes to my house.

*I told him that I am tired of being hidden away. That I don't like how un-integrated our lives our. He said that he thought they were better integrated now than when we lived together. (ie hiking, doing stuff, etc.) I said a)it USED to be that way, but not lately and b) I meant that I want to be able to meet his friends and not be the 'secret'.

*He said he is still mad for what happened in the past. That he felt lonely and sad. I apologized (again) for being sick and said "I was sick. What's your excuse?" He said "What do you mean?" I said "I had a thyroid problem that made me exhausted. But you would go out til 4am, go hang out with people I never met, basically shoved me out of your life. Right now, I feel lonely and hurt a lot of the time because you are basically ignoring me. You cheated, I have not. What's your excuse for your behavior?"

*I said that I have done all sorts of things that would advance the relationship; can he name anything he has done? (no) In fact, this "Maybe you're winning me over" BS is just that BS. I said that HE should be trying to WIN me back since *I* haven't done anything 'wrong'. I said that *I* was willing to forgive him for what he actively DID and that it wasn't right to hold what I didn't do against me.

*Again he said he was scared he would get bored; that it wouldn't turn out, and he knows that if I move back in, that's it. There is no going back. It will be for the rest of our lives.
-I said that I understood he had been hurt that I 'checked' out of the marriage, but that he has already seen my changes since I started taking medication.

*He asked if I wanted to do Christmas and New Years with him. Christmas would be with the kids too, of course.

*I asked him if he was looking for "the next big thing" (girl) and he said that he was not looking right now. (Yes, "right now".) He has plenty to figure out in his life.

*He said that the past 20 years he has made decisions based on being successful at work and always doing what other people wanted. That he had to decide ONLY for him and what HE wants. I looked at him with a "What a crock" look and he asked what I was thinking and I said "It started with a used truck and ended with a convertible mustang, with all sorts of things in between. There were PLENTY of things you did with ONLY you in mind." He laughed and said "well, yeah. But those are small things. I didn't do that with the big decisions."

*He again said he wanted to see where he would go with the music. Wanted to be playing live by next summer. Felt like he had some really good songs written and that it could go somewhere. I pointed out that Bon Jovi, Sting,the late John Lennon and countless other musicians are married. He said it's not a married/not married thing...then he sort of trailed off. I don't know what his point was.

Anyway, we talked about that *I* deserve better than what I am getting. I think he enjoyed (for lack of a better word) the conversation.

So, for now, I have said what I wanted to say. I actually had thought that he might say "well, I don't want to be married" (or something along those lines) when I started this convo, so having him listen was good. I asked what he thought about everything I said and he said that he needed to absorb it and think about it. I know him and that is what he does. He may not respond right away, but he does think about what I say.

Tonight he is going to his parents' house for dinner and to discuss SS. I told him I want to be there because it all affects me too. We'll see if I end up going. He did say that of all the people in SS's life, that SS respected me the most and then H second. I thought that was interesting. Frustrating and interesting. Frustrating because I am being blocked from actually helping/encouraging changes. My H is trying to minimize how his partying affects SS opinion of things.

OH! regarding FB, he said he would approve me as long as I didn't "hound" him. ?!? I asked him to explain WTF that was supposed to mean and he was never able to. He brought it up out of the blue.

I am definitely thinking I need to get out of Dodge in January.

[AliSuddenly]

Hey Trixi...
Well done! Like it.. theres a bunch of us who kind of stopped DBing, or maybe, stopped the no-R talks rule at least. I reckon tjis was a really good convo.. and like you said, he agreed, he stayed with it, he listened and he didnt say he didnt want to be M anymore, so thats all positive right.

This jumped out at me as THE most significant thing said (and I reckon it sums up why my ex left)...

"*Again he said he was scared he would get bored; that it wouldn't turn out, and he knows that if I move back in, that's it. There is no going back. It will be for the rest of our lives."

...thats pretty much the crux of it right, the rest, is just noise.

I dont know how you get around that one.. its defo a MLC thing, its about acceptance.. accepting a higher love, instead of chasing The NExt Best Thing.. and then ending up right back in the same spot once that R reaches maturity, except he'd then be 1, 5 or 10 years, whatever, older.

My BMF (who recognises he's in a MLC) said the same as your H, about his W and then made the connection I did above.. ok, swap my W for someone new/younger, but 10/20 years down the line, I'll be in the same place, but I'll be older, fatter, greyer and sadder.

So, are you going to keep on waiting patiently whilst he figures it out?

Al xxx

[Trixi]

---journaling---although I will bold things that are important if anyone happens to skim by.

More R talk on Thursday night and this time, not so "positive". (He freakin' runs hot and cold worse than a broken hot water heater.)
We were talking about the sitch with his son. SS told me that he really wants to go to counseling, but is afraid that my H isn't going to support him in that. (I assured him that he, in fact, is very much wanting him to get counseling.) SS also said that he wants all three of us to go. That he has a hard time speaking with H, but not me, and thinks we all could use some counseling. (Agreed.)

So, when I tell H that SS wants us ALL to go, he says "Well, that's fine. As long as we don't talk about "us"." I thought that was an interesting statement, so after agreeing that the counseling is for SS and not US, I asked why he seemed so "anti-us".
H- I don't think counseling would help.
M- ?
H- I just don't know what I want..(etc etc same old same old)
H- Besides, you're okay with the situation.
M-Who the he!! ever said I was "ok" with the situation? I have been being patient.
H- Well, I'm just saying it's not my fault we're in this sitch.
M- [fuming]
H- It's good that you are finally standing up for yourself.
M- ....
H- I love you too much to keep hurting you. That's why I have been so 'back and forth'. I didn't want to feel bad about hurting you.
M- I call BS. You just said that it was good I was standing up for myself and then you act as if you were doing things to stop hurting me.
a little more scrapping between us, then he says
H- Well, economy sucks right now, and I didn't want to leave you in a bind with no health insurance...I just don't know what I am doing. We were supposed to talk about all this in Costa Rica but then I got caught up in the moment.
M- What do you mean?
H- Well, you knew that I wanted us to talk.
M- There are two ways to look at 'talking'; I assumed it was in a positive, moving forward way....are you trying to tell me you planned to dump me in f'ing Costa Rica?!?!
H- ..well, no..I don't know what I exactly thought. But I got caught up in the moment and then we came home and all the bad feelings came rushing back.

By then we were getting close to his parents house and I didn't want to have a breakdown. It was obvious I was agitated and he asked what I thought, and I said "I do not have one good thing to say right now, so I am not going to speak."

After dinner at the parents, we all discussed what to do about SS and his addictions. H's parents had no idea that the roommate smokes pot all the time. They were going on and on about how important the environment is for SS to live in, and how he needs a good example. I could barely contain myself as I glared across the table at H. Finally, he says "roommate smokes pot". I say "every freaking day" and he says "Well, not EVERY day, but, yeah, too much."
We get into a HUGE hoopla over whether it's a good idea for that to be in the house with SS. His parents were not as clear cut as I would have liked. I finally said, "Sounds to me like you are picking RoomMate over your son" and the spew that came forth from his mouth...OMG. "Damn right I'm picking RM over my S. My S is a lying POS that doesn't f'ing appreciate any fing thing, etc etc." He was jabbing his finger into the air and nearly spitting. There were nearly more swear words than actual words. After he stop his mom just said "You can't swear like that in this house. It's not nice." ?? That's it?! I finally, said "Well, maybe I am the lone voice in the wilderness that thinks the living situation over there is not conducive to SS's recovery. Fine." And I mimed 'washing my hands' of the whole thing. I was FUMING mad. And I SO, wanted to tell them of the DUI. But I did not. I figure it will eventually come out. They can all wallow in their dysfunction.

Afterwards, on the way to pick up SS from his work, I let H have it. From my point of view, my H is more interested in continuing to drink and smoke pot (on occassion, not as bad as roommate) than he is in stopping long enough to help SS thru all this. He is more concerned with getting to still "party". He keeps saying that SS has to learn to deal with temptation because he is 'always going to be around it'. I say BS. He does not HAVE to be around it in the place he lives. We all get to CHOOSE our home environment; our safe-haven where we don't have to *fight* temptation.

Pick up SS at work. I am still fuming mad because I feel like this is the last chance to save SS (before something really horrible happens) and my H is srewing it up because he selfishly is more concerned with maintaining his ease of partying than sacrificing for SS. {Side note- my dad died because of drugs. He burned down the top half of my gramma's house doing drugs and died in the fire. My gramma enabled him. He stole stuff from her, stole credit cards- basically should have been kicked out, but she turned a blind eye while he just got deeper and deeper into drugs. I am passionate not out of ignorance, but because I know what can happen all too well.}

SS asks why we are so quiet and H says "Mama's mad right now. We were arguing about you." SS obviously wants to know why, so finally he is told it's because of the RM smoking pot. SS says "Well, I really like RM and think he's a good example for me. I have to make the choice to not smoke pot." H nods his head in agreement. What I heard was the addict in SS saying to not take away his easy access to escaping using drugs. We had previously been talking about inpatient rehab for SS so dripping with sarcasm, I said "You know what? I bet you're totally right that it is ALL up to SS, the addict, to just say "no". In fact, I bet that when someone arrives at rehab, they tell the addict 'over here are the drugs that you can't have. you have to learn to just say no. so, don't you touch them. there in this room here, but you just better not touch them. we're going to teach you to deal with temptation.' Oh, yes, I bet that's exactly what happens. I'm sure that rehab doesn't see ANY value in having a clean environment to help the person recover." My H got really quiet. I think he realized I was right when I framed it that way. Then my H was even MORE interested in putting SS into an inpatient rehab. SS said he will go and he is fine if it's 90 days. He doesn't care, he just wants to feel better and quit screwing up his life.

I am tired.
I feel like I am watching everything I care about go down the crapper. I feel like H is in la-la land about drug use and my SS. SS is in a precarious place and H wants to do a "Do as I say, not as I do" thing. They are smoking in the house. There is already a cigarette burn in one room's carpet. My H is about to lose his license for 90 days.

Yesterday, though, he called and was warm and friendly. Apologized for losing it the night before. Talked about putting SS into rehab for up to 6 months, no less than 3. In the meantime, next Tues is a consultation to find a counselor. What hes going to do after that, I don't know. He won't have a license. SS doesn't have one either, yet. A little voice in my brain is saying that H is going to be nice enough to keep me on the line so I can drive him and SS places. OTOH, isn't that what family does? Help each other out?

I agree w/H that I don't want to be left in a bind without health insurance either. Maybe we can just sign a LSA for the time being and then I can move forward with no guilt.... I don't know.

[Sara]

Trixi,

You are right. This is bad. More than bad, it is criminal. I know this is shocking advice, but it is the only thing that will work. You need to send the police to that house and get them all busted. Only the court system is strong enough to make people like that stop.

You think I don't know what I'm talking about. But I do. My son was addicted to marijuana. He sold it out of our house. I kicked him out of the house. Then he got busted. He was in a drug rehab program for 3 years. He could not even drink a beer. Nothing. They drug tested him almost daily, and put him on antibuse to stop the drinking. And they put him in a 30 day rehab program. Oh yea, and they put him in jail on and off over those 3 years if they even fantasized that he had smoked or drunk something. And it did work. He is a productive member of society now. But nothing short of that would ever work. And lastly, he had to completely change who his friends were. He could not associate with his old friends anymore. Because they were still drug and alcohol abusers. And several of them are dead now.

I really wonder what your H's relationship with the RM is. He chooses him over you and his son. This is not just a RM. This is a weird relationship. Maybe it is just that he is his drug supplier. But maybe it is even more than that. It doesn't matter how long you put SS in a rehab program. If he doesn't change who he associates with he will be using the same day he gets out. They do not change by choice.

[Trixi]

I really wonder what your H's relationship with the RM is. He chooses him over you and his son. This is not just a RM. This is a weird relationship.

RM works where my H works, they are in the same "band", they jam together, write music together, he's a good looking kid (25yo) and I almost wonder if my H doesn't see him as a younger version of himself. (I hadn't thought of that until just now.) Anyway, now that he has lived with roommate since March/April, he has grown attached to him. They both tease SS-(in fact, on Halloween, they left SS at home telling him that he would make a crappy wingman-which really hurt SS's feelings..did I mention SS is gay?), go out drinking together....He's a nice enough guy (I guess) but I don't like that he is in the space of people that I love that I see going downhill. When SS said that he didn't think there should be pot in the house, my H agreed at first. But then when SS was instructed to tell that to RM, RM said "F' that. You need to control yourself. YOU are the one that needs to be responsible for yourself and make the right choices. That's not MY job." And then my H agreed with RM. And strictly intellectually, I can see where that "make sense". But knowing about brain chemistry and addiction, it makes NO sense.

ARGH! It makes me want to tear my hair out in frustration. H told me yesterday that he had a 'talk' with RM and told him that under no circumstances should he give anything to SS and that they couldn't smoke it around SS. My H seems to think that since SS is dabbles in opiates, that pot is no big deal.

My only hope at this point is that some 'professional' will say the same thing I am. I am nearly positive that H thinks my motives are to control him/harsh his mellow and to get RM out of the house (since that is where I think *I* belong.)

I think my H has a serious problem. But since he is highly functioning, there is no talking him into that idea. When he was first talking about SS moving out here and I told him that he might need to stop drinking, he got all up in my grill and said that maybe SS shouldn't live with him if SS couldn't "deal" with it. I said "Gee, sounds like you just picked alchohol over your son" and he got REALLY ticked and justified, rationalized, etc.

I think if I contacted the police, the only thing that would happen is that SS would be taken out of the house and either shipped back east or tossed in jail. I don't see that as actually helping SS.

Since it appears SS is destined for rehab, it won't matter what H and his RM do. At least, not until it's time for SS to return to the house. I imagine any rehab facility would strongly encourage a clean house for a recovering addict.

H's "reasoning" for choosing RM over son is because RM doesn't lie to him, doesn't take his clothing/shoes, is respectful and appreciative and not horrible to live with. Personally, I don't give a flying leap if RM was Mother Teresa. If you bring your son back to try to help him create a new life and the RM is NOT advancing that idea, then the RM goes.

Thanks for listening and validating. I was absolutely thunderstruck at my in-laws lack of response. It made me start to wonder if maybe I *am* overreacting. Maybe I am too sensitive because of what happened with my dad... I hate that I have turned into "the heavy". But how can I NOT say anything??

[Sara]

Would it be possible for SS to come live with you? He can not even socialize with his father after rehab if his father is a drug and alcohol user.

[Trixi]

It would probably be possible, but I don't know if H would go for it...well, he probably would if he was told he couldn't have the crap in the house.
As of right now, H is saying that SS is HIS son and he wants to deal with it his way.

[NikB]

Oh Trixi - my gosh you have a lot going on! Sorry I haven't been on in a few days.

Still hoping for January... You have my email right? Good luck with the buyers!

I had a few individual things I wanted to reply to but first, an overall thought that came to me as I read through your thread this morning. Do you think H has an addiction problem? It sounds like you do think that - which leads me to wonder if it's worse than you think. If that's the case it explains a LOT of things to me. I know not to make too many assumptions or speculations but I just want to throw some thoughts out there.

- Lack of contact during the week = you don't hear him drunk/drugged out.

- You're "hidden away" - maybe YOU are not the secret or what's being "hidden"? After all, look how hard many addicts work to hide their problems from their spouse... he barely even has to work at it. No need to hide booze in the toilet tank or whatever - just get her to move out!

- Scared he'll get bored? = Scared that if you come back he'll have to stop drinking/drugging and life will be "boring"?

- The running hot and cold... yes, this is typical for MANY of the WAS so I hesitate a bit to tie this to drinking/drugs but is it possible that how he's feeling about the R depends on how "high" he is at the moment? It seems like you guys have those really good "connection" nights when he's drinking.

- Choosing room-mate and "partying" over SS. This was the one that stood out to me - unless he and SS have had a really bad R all along.

- Since it's "only" pot and alcohol it's OK... ("at least it's not as bad as opiates" - or - "at least I don't smoke as much pot as RM" - or "well *I* only drink 6 beers/day, it's not like RM over here who drinks 12 a day" - anything sound familiar?)

Now... if this IS the case, keep in mind it's not your issue, or something you have control over. The more you try to talk him into it, the more he'll fight it and probably the further into denial he'll get. The ONLY thing you can do is choose not to further enable it, I think. It sure makes sense to me that this may be the root of a whole lot of your R/M problems though. Especially why he wants to be married to you at his "convenience" - and not live with you. Much, much easier that way but he still gets the perks of a marriage when he wants them.

A few thoughts on your recent convos/interactions:

*I told him that he is supposed to give to me and then I give back; that currently I am doing WAY more than my fair share in the R while he sits back and all he has to do is arrive. I am sick and tired of always pushing the R up the hill while he watches and his big 'contribution' is to drive 25 minutes to my house.

While I understand where you're going with this - that is the case in an R that both people WANT moving forward. It's your choice to do all the "work" right now and accept the very little bit that he's contributing. He doesn't even know if he wants the R at all - why would he push for making it better?

*I told him that I am tired of being hidden away.

As I mentioned above - are you so sure it's YOU being hidden away? I suspect that it's his "other life" that he's hiding away from you - knowing that you won't approve of a lot of it. And, perhaps, not wanting to "disappoint" you or make you think less of him? You put him on a damn high pedastal... he's probably pretty afraid of what'll happen if you see the reality of how he wants to live, or thinks he wants to live.

It's entirely likely he's ashamed of the friends you want to meet - not you.

*He said he is still mad for what happened in the past. That he felt lonely and sad. I apologized (again) for being sick and said "I was sick. What's your excuse?"

I've said this before and of course only you can decide, but I really think you should NEVER apologize for this again. Would you apologize for getting cancer? Getting hit by a truck? You can certainly empathize and validate, without apologizing. For example... my broken leg f'd up our lives for a couple of years, really, and it still has some impact today because the muscle hasn't totally come back yet. I feel absolutely awful about all the time H "lost" taking care of me and the impact it's hard on our lives. I used to apologize for it but the MC suggested to me that wasn't the best approach - why apologize for something that's not my fault? So I can say "I know, that sucked" or "yes, that was such a hard time" or things like that, without apologizing. I realized I was "apologizing" more for the impact it had on H and our lives - but it wasn't my fault. Reframing it helped me a lot. Especially getting past the guilt part of it.

"I'm sorry you felt so lonely and sad - that was a hard time, for sure." NOT "I'm sorry I was sick." See the difference?

I love the question you asked though.

If my theory is right, I suspect that his excuse (ultimately) may be that HE is sick too - with addiction.

*I said that I have done all sorts of things that would advance the relationship; can he name anything he has done? (no) In fact, this "Maybe you're winning me over" BS is just that BS. I said that HE should be trying to WIN me back since *I* haven't done anything 'wrong'. I said that *I* was willing to forgive him for what he actively DID and that it wasn't right to hold what I didn't do against me.

On the first part - again I'd just ask why he'd be advancing an R he doesn't know if he wants? What you guys have right now is working for him as is. Why do anything different?

What was his response to the "winning me over" thing?

There were PLENTY of things you did with ONLY you in mind." He laughed and said "well, yeah. But those are small things. I didn't do that with the big decisions."

I think you had a good opportunity to validate and dig a little bit deeper here. Did you and just didn't happen to post that part? I wonder what "big decisions" he means. And could you listen to how he feels on that without getting defensive? I KNOW how hard that is - I was just curious how the rest of this piece went - it reminds me a lot of a convo I had with my H in MC.

*He again said he wanted to see where he would go with the music. Wanted to be playing live by next summer. Felt like he had some really good songs written and that it could go somewhere. I pointed out that Bon Jovi, Sting,the late John Lennon and countless other musicians are married. He said it's not a married/not married thing...then he sort of trailed off. I don't know what his point was.

I wonder if this may have come off as bizarrely to him as it did to me?

H: "I'm really excited about this music thing and want to see where it goes."
You: "Plenty of musicians are married!"

If I were your H I'd be thinking... "WTF?? I wasn't talking about our R at all, I was talking about something I'm looking forward to doing in the future. Does EVERYTHING have to come back to talking about our M?"

My guess is that's where the "it's not a married/not married" thing comment came from. I think you two were having entirely different conversations at that moment, at least that's my guess.

So, for now, I have said what I wanted to say. I actually had thought that he might say "well, I don't want to be married" (or something along those lines) when I started this convo, so having him listen was good.

Agreed!! I think the conversation overall went really, really well.

OH! regarding FB, he said he would approve me as long as I didn't "hound" him. ?!? I asked him to explain WTF that was supposed to mean and he was never able to.

My guess... "hound" him as in get on his case about all the "partying" he is doing, which will probably become more apparent once you're on his page.

So, when I tell H that SS wants us ALL to go, he says "Well, that's fine. As long as we don't talk about "us"." I thought that was an interesting statement, so after agreeing that the counseling is for SS and not US, I asked why he seemed so "anti-us".

I had a feeling this was his worry - that you were going to try to make SS's counseling about your R/M too.

H- I don't think counseling would help.
M- ?
H- I just don't know what I want..(etc etc same old same old)
H- Besides, you're okay with the situation.
M-Who the he!! ever said I was "ok" with the situation? I have been being patient.

It's what a lot of us have been telling you for a lonnnng time, Trixi. You never SAID you were OK with the situation because you never HAD to say it. Actions speak louder than words, and your actions say you're totally fine with it.

Great job not responding after the Costa Rica discussion - sounded like a good time to stop and take a breather before continuing any type of discussion on that one.

' Oh, yes, I bet that's exactly what happens. I'm sure that rehab doesn't see ANY value in having a clean environment to help the person recover." My H got really quiet. I think he realized I was right when I framed it that way. Then my H was even MORE interested in putting SS into an inpatient rehab. SS said he will go and he is fine if it's 90 days. He doesn't care, he just wants to feel better and quit screwing up his life.

Yep... he realized you were right, and inpatient means that H doesn't have to worry about any impact to him just yet.
I'm glad SS wants to feel better, that's a good sign! He sounds really motivated.

A little voice in my brain is saying that H is going to be nice enough to keep me on the line so I can drive him and SS places. OTOH, isn't that what family does? Help each other out?

Well, it doesn't take much to keep you on the line. Heck he barely even has to be nice to you. I bet that little voice is right on.

Um... yes, family helps each other out.. but isn't that what your gramma did? "helped out" by turning a blind eye to your Dad's issues? (as a side note - I am so sorry to hear about this! That's so sad and must have been awful for you.)

When your H needs a ride to the store (to stock up on beer), are you going to drive him?

I feel like H is in la-la land about drug use and my SS. SS is in a precarious place and H wants to do a "Do as I say, not as I do" thing. They are smoking in the house. There is already a cigarette burn in one room's carpet. My H is about to lose his license for 90 days.

What is it they say about each person having to hit their own "rock bottom"? Sounds like he's headed there but he's got a ways to go.

Maybe we can just sign a LSA for the time being and then I can move forward with no guilt.... I don't know.

Is paperwork really all that's keeping you stuck right now?

I am nearly positive that H thinks my motives are to control him/harsh his mellow and to get RM out of the house (since that is where I think *I* belong.)

IS that part of your motivation? Your part in parentheses makes me think it might be. Unless you just meant that's probably what H is thinking. Couldn't tell if that was "you" or you paraphrasing H...

Personally, I don't give a flying leap if RM was Mother Teresa. If you bring your son back to try to help him create a new life and the RM is NOT advancing that idea, then the RM goes.

Well... I think this says a lot. This is YOUR value system. It obviously is either 1. not your H's, or 2. he's got a more serious problem than you think and you now have ANOTHER hard decision to make - do you stick with him through it? Knowing that he's not even to his "bottom" yet?

Whew that was long.. haha.. sorry. I hope some of it's helpful though.

((((Trixi))))

You have so much on your plate right now - and some tough decisions to make. I'm sorry you're having to deal with all of this.

[Trixi]

It's been quiet on the H front; but in a way, not so quiet.

Still hoping for January... You have my email right? Good luck with the buyers!

Yup, I still have your email Buyers and I are going out again Saturday. Haven't found "The" house for them yet, but I am sure it's out there with all the inventory we have to pick from. I definitely need a get-a-way.

Do you think H has an addiction problem?

Yes-but not in the "daily" sense. More like a binger who can't stop once they get going.

It sounds like you do think that - which leads me to wonder if it's worse than you think. If that's the case it explains a LOT of things to me. I know not to make too many assumptions or speculations but I just want to throw some thoughts out there.

- Lack of contact during the week = you don't hear him drunk/drugged out.

I think, actually, that he is just jamming/hanging out during the week. Could be wrong I suppose...I really do not believe it to be a daily indulgence.
Having said that, I think there is something to perhaps him not wanting me around because of what he does when he is intoxicated. He already told me years ago that when he went out to bars (without me) that he liked to flirt.
Sheesh, I don't know how many times he has 'had' to tell me that there is a TON of opportunity out there for him to pick up women and he doesn't act on it. He just said it *again* this past week. Like he is some sort of hero or saint or something.

Dr Harley of Marriage Builders told me over a year ago that he thought H was leaving because there was someone waiting in the wings. (Which wasn't the case since my H went out on dates with different women, put a profile on match, etc. He wasn't "in love" and being influenced by the love fog.)
In fact, here is exactly what Dr H said "But there's another possibility. The explanation he's giving you, that he just wants to see what it would be like to be in love with someone else, is so stupid and selfish that ordinarily I would reject it immediately. But quite frankly, if it turns out to be the real reason he's leaving, it would be strong evidence that he's sociopathic. If that's the case, he will get into all kinds of legal trouble, including drug use and other illegal activities, after he leaves. Maybe that's what you've been up against all these years. You may have been preventing him from making a mess of his life due to his very self-destructive instincts, and he's resented your positive influence."
and then later when I said there was absolutely no other woman "Exculsivity are extremely important in creating a passionate relationship, and your husband's wandering eye is a major factor in your relationship never quite coming together.
However, I must repeat what I said earlier that anyone who leaves his wife just to see if there's something better out there has serious character issues."

Yikes. At the time, I thought he was being pretty harsh...now, I am wondering if maybe he was right.

I wonder if this may have come off as bizarrely to him as it did to me?

H: "I'm really excited about this music thing and want to see where it goes."
You: "Plenty of musicians are married!"

I suppose the context is that whenever he is talking about how he doesn't know what he wants to do about the relationship HE adds in the thing about wanting to see where the music will go (as if it is an either/or proposition). My point was that he can still see where the music goes AND be married.

I think that my H is more attached to the RM than to his son or me. I think that the RM is sort of tied up with the whole "I want to see where the music goes" deal. RM is on that adventure with him. RM is helping him "get there". So, I can see where RM would be the most important thing to H, given that music is the most important thing.

SS is being told he needs to stand in front of the judge back east. So, H and SS will be flying out there in Jan sometime. And then SS will be put in rehab. In the meantime, SS will be in counseling. H will go in and tell the counselor some stuff, but then leave the rest to SS. I asked H if he told the counselor the entire living sitch, and he said no. Grrrrrr.... How the heck is the counselor supposed to help when they don't have the whole picture? SS is unlikely to say anything because he "protected" his mother while she self-destructed and took SS with her. More than likely he will lie to protect my H; and I know this because he lied to me recently on several occassions about H's involvement in things to keep me from 'getting mad' at H.

H asked me to take them to the counseling appointments the next two Tuesdays. And then we could go out Christmas shopping. It does sound like my H is respecting the "no driving" for the next 90 days. But then he said something stupid "I might have to go to 'retard school'." I asked what he meant and he said "You know. Where you have to go take classes on drug and alchohol abuse." I said that maybe he would actually learn something and he said "yeah. maybe." in a very skeptical voice.

I am torn. I know that looking at it pragmatically, I should run as fast as I can in the other direction. But I have been with him for almost 14 years. I helped raise his son for 8-9 years of that. But I was poo-pooed when I would get up in arms at how SS's mom would lie and encourage SS to lie about things. I got poo-pooed when I said we needed to be firmer with SS when he got in trouble with things. I was poo-pooed when we put SS in counseling years ago and SS was BSing the counselor and the counselor said "he's fine." I was poo-pooed when I said the relationship between SS and his mother (once he moved there)was highly dysfunctional that SS was being damaged. And now I am being poo-pooed again. Only this time the stakes are even higher.

I'm sorry, I'm just venting. I am still a little in shock at the lack of response from H's parents. I feel like I am all alone out here.