I felt strange this morning when I woke up...just kind of sad in a way I hadn't felt before. I think it might be the feelings of stress that pass through me every now and then - since I can't say that I've ever really experienced stress before...at least not like this...
My SIL called me today...had a nice talk with her...and she's still very mad at her sister...and I found myself trying to ask her to be more compassionate -but she's just fed up with my W's behavior (and apparently also sick of the lies my W has been trying to tell her about me - until they stopped talking).
SIL told me that their mom said something about how their father is probably bipolar, so too is their grandmother, and one of their father's brothers (not the child-molester uncle - another one)...what a mess...
I'm going to a reception for my college tonight...hopefully that will be a nice break from everything.
Carlos Trip to SF should be nice for you. Your S11 is a scholar athlete, math team and all star in soccer. That's so cool. I can see full college scholarship coming for him. After reading Rob and your comments, I realize I still focus on my W too much. What a work in progress...!!
Originally Posted By: somberbrow
...oddly enough, since I mentioned having someone present when we exchange our son, my W hasn't said anything about calling the police again...or claimed to be afraid of me...doesn't mean she's not up to something...she's just not throwing the threats at me in the same way.
It does sounds a little bitter to me. You probably have every right to after all the things she has done to you. Like you said before, she is a good person at heart but she needs to work through her issues. Don't let her darkness affect your PMA... Have fun in SF...
NW626
Me:33 STBXW:38 S:3 It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you fight the fight....!!
I hope tonight's function was fun. I'm working on losing 10 lbs. to get under 195 and I've been denying myself beer until I get there as a motivator. If there is a bar, have a cold one or 4 for me, bro.
Your sadness is ok, Carlos. It is natural and probably has something to do w/ the holidays as well. Today was rough on me too b/c of what my XW said last night as well as my thoughts turning to Christmas. Christmas is such a family time, so when the family is fragmented, it is difficult and sad.
However, try your best to focus on the family time you do and will have. Make the most of it. A friend told me she thinks of the song "Cats in the Cradle" when she's w/ her kids so she doesn't neglect the time they have together. It is a good analogy and I use it myself when I have my D. Everything else I'm doing can wait when I have her.
Try to focus on that and it will help tremendously.
Finally, you realize your W has a good heart but is a mess in the head. That is my XW too. Sadly, the only real choice is to move forward w/ my life b/c to wait would most likely mean a lot of frustration which would only end in futility. The changes your W needs are not quick fixes, so you can still be positive about the future, but you have to make sure you are living the present at the same time.
If you stop and wait, you lose. No one wins, not even your W. The reason no one would win is b/c you would be the only one playing.
NW - Don't get too down on yourself for focusing too much on your W, b/c I did it for close to 9 months before the light went on in my head. Hopefully you can see the light sooner and start moving ahead for you. It is fun once you get here - and a huge relief.
Hi NW: I know what you mean about her darkness affecting me too much...and I'm more aware of it now than before...and so I just ignore her darkness and rude behavior. Even tonight, when she came by to pick up our baby, she did the usual thing of not saying hello to me or acknowledging my presence at all - but just went right into an aggressive question about whether or not our baby had made anything for Thanksgiving at his daycare. I didn't say anything, I just looked up at her, and continued to show her the number 4 he had made today - and which he was very proud of - and which I was giving to her...and then she suddenly added, "my mom was asking, not me." Goodness...what a mess she is at the moment...
But, yes, NW - she does have a good heart - and I know that to be true - but, yes to you as well, Rob, since it is her head that is messed up in a big way right now...and I'm just not going to get swallowed up in it any more...I think I've already given up too much of myself and my life - and over the last five months - I've spend hours, and I mean countless hours, reading and writing and trying to figure out what to do - and how to be there for her...only to see now that I have to be there for myself and my children first - and just let her do what she needs to do.
I think a lot of the sadness I was feeling this morning had to do with the holidays - all the lights going up in the neighborhood - the idea of being back home without my baby boy there - the fact that my father just left for Peru on Saturday - and won't be there when we visit...and just the simple truth of my fractured marriage...
I almost didn't go tonight - but after she picked up my son, I figured, okay...what the hell...go...which is a big 180 for me, since I would typically have just stayed home and let myself get lost in my thoughts. Instead I went, sat down, and while I was there (I arrived late) a friend from college happened to sit down at a table with me. He's a doctor now, married, and has a 15-month-old boy - so we talked - and I had a genuinely nice time just hearing about his work, his family and his memories of when we met. While I was waiting for him - I saw your note about having a drink, Rob, and so I obliged...in your honor.
Amazing that you should mention "Cats in the Cradle" - that is the only song (in English) that my father has ever talked with me about...I remember being in the car with him one day, that song came on, his eyes watered, and he turned to me and said, "this song reminds me of you" (though he said it in Spanish).
...and here I am...more than twenty years later...and going through exactly what he did...his boy is just like him...
Not much to talk about for today...I had some friends come over for dinner and made them some authentic Peruvian food - that was a lot of fun - and it was a joy to have them spend some time with my baby boy too.
When my W came by to pick up our son, she was cold and distant as usual - though I brought out some of our son's Thanksgiving art for her to take home.
It was an uneventful interaction - though I did have this strange moment of looking into her eyes and just not recognizing her at all...like I was staring at a complete stranger - it was very odd - and so after she took our baby into her arms (yes, she's actually taking him from my arms now), I went back inside to join my friends at the dinner table.
Looking back on that "stranger" face that I saw, I realized just how far apart we are - and just how far I am from her. I do love her - I think I just always will - but I don't see the same person in her eyes anymore - not the person that shared memories with me - not the person that married me - not the person that used to enjoy my cooking...It was like looking at someone that I had never met before...
So...it's quiet in this house now...and I'm thinking about moving out and finding a new place sometime in February or March. Not that I want to move away from this neighborhood - there are lots of pluses to it - I think I just want to be in a different space - something smaller - something that doesn't have so many empty spaces filled with meaning...
We had been talking about buying a place before we moved in here...thank goodness we didn't...
...a woman made prolonged eye contact with me in the gym this morning...nothing came of it...but it was nice to feel noticed by someone...
I'm going to that men's ground again tomorrow night...their support and compassion is so very helpful...
I'm still not sure about this weekend. I have to be back here early on Sunday morning, so I may just make a simple weekend of it instead...thinking of going camping with some friends or maybe just heading someplace a bit closer than San Francisco...
Reading through my most recent posts this morning, I guess I saw some positives...in that she's not threatening to call the police and she's taking our baby from my arms. We're not talking much at all - which is also necessary - and I am finding better ways to focus on my life. I've started trying to dress a bit better no matter what I'm doing - and that seems to make me feel more positive about myself...I've also started wearing contact lenses more often...since I sometimes feel like I hide behind my glasses and don't really open up to people the way I do when I don't have them on.
Other things that I'm working on are just calling out to friends more often (last night was the first time I've had friends over for dinner in ages) and making sure that I get myself up and out of the house more....
Detachment is a strange animal...I've let go of my attachments to my wife - and yet the love for her that I have continues to ache inside of me. I have it under control though, which is why I won't pursue her, get into arguments with her, or talk about our R/M anymore.
I was reading through some stuff I wrote at the beginning of this - when I first logged on - and when I started journaling about my marriage years ago...and the simple truth is that if nothing had changed we would have remained in a terrible marriage. I was not happy...and eventually my unhappiness became resentment toward her...and while I realize that part of it has to do with her, I'm also seeing just how much of it has to do with me - and how complicit I've been in giving myself up over the last few years.
The friends I had over last night are both getting their PhDs right now - and so our conversations were probing and heavy and complicated - and thrilling...the kind of conversations I used to have every day...the kind of interactions that used to fill me with a kind of intense energy and excitement about life...and I've not felt that in years...and that's not my W's fault...it's mine...and I have to recognize that and do something about it...
I think you are moving to the right direction. Actually I know you are. And I am glad she is responding with the little positives you mentioned.
Please, please do not backslide. Dont engage in any convos, dont try to check if she misses you over the holidays... Keep your necessary and healing distance. You will see, as times passes, things become simplier (not easier, simplier).
Your goal is to keep your interactions indifferent, neutral... I was so glad to read you had some time with friends etc. Life does go on... xxx K
Carlos I am happy for you on your progress. You have slowly rediscover yourself, the authentic Carlos. I think this is so important. Have fun over the weekend.....!!
NW626
Me:33 STBXW:38 S:3 It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you fight the fight....!!
Hi Kalni: I will do everything I can not to backslide...and I'm finding that it does get simpler - just as you say - as I find myself more. I was reading through some of Coach's posts again today - and while I'm thrilled to know that's he's moved on to work on piecing his marriage back together - I do miss his presence here...Anyway, as a nod of thanks to Coach, and his references to the Stockdale Paradox, I thought I would post the excerpt here:
Good To Great, by Jim Collins
The Stockdale Paradox Chapter 4, pages 83–85
The name refers to Admiral Jim Stockdale, who was the highest ranking United States military officer in the “Hanoi Hilton” prisoner-of-war camp during the height of the Vietnam War. Tortured over 20 times during his eight-year imprisonment from 1965 to 1973, Stockdale lived out the war without any prisoner's rights, no set release date, and no certainty as to whether he would even survive to see his family again. He shouldered the burden of command, doing everything he could to create conditions that would increase the number of prisoners who would survive unbroken, while fighting an internal war against his captors and their attempts to use the prisoners for propaganda. At one point, he beat himself with a stool and cut himself with a razor, deliberately disfiguring himself, so that he could not be put on videotape as an example of a “well-treated prisoner.” He exchanged secret intelligence information with his wife through their letters, knowing that discovery would mean more torture and perhaps death. He instituted rules that would help people to deal with torture (no one can resist torture indefinitely, so he created a step-wise system—after x minutes, you can say certain things—that gave the men milestones to survive toward). He instituted an elaborate internal communications system to reduce the sense of isolation that their captors tried to create, which used a five-by-five matrix of tap codes for alpha characters. (Tap-tap equals the letter a, tap-pause-tap-tap equals the letter b, tap-tap-pause-tap equals the letter f, and so forth, for 25 letters, c doubling for k.) At one point, during an imposed silence, the prisoners mopped and swept the central yard using the code, swish-swashing out “We love you” to Stockdale, on the third anniversary of his being shot down. After his release, Stockdale became the first three-star officer in the history of the navy to wear both aviator wings and the Congressional Medal of Honor.59
You can understand, then, my anticipation at the prospect of spending part of an afternoon with Stockdale. One of my students had written his paper on Stockdale, who happened to be a senior research fellow studying the Stoic philosophers at the Hoover Institution right across the street from my office, and Stockdale invited the two of us for lunch. In preparation, I read In Love and War, the book Stockdale and his wife had written in alternating chapters, chronicling their experiences during those eight years.
As I moved through the book, I found myself getting depressed. It just seemed so bleak—the uncertainty of his fate, the brutality of his captors, and so forth. And then, it dawned on me: “Here I am sitting in my warm and comfortable office, looking out over the beautiful Stanford campus on a beautiful Saturday afternoon. I’m getting depressed reading this, and I know the end of the story! I know that he gets out, reunites with his family, becomes a national hero, and gets to spend the later years of his life studying philosophy on this same beautiful campus. If it feels depressing for me, how on earth did he deal with it when he was actually there and did not know the end of the story?”
“I never lost faith in the end of the story,” he said, when I asked him. “I never doubted not only that I would get out, but also that I would prevail in the end and turn the experience into the defining event of my life, which, in retrospect, I would not trade.”
* * *
I didn’t say anything for many minutes, and we continued the slow walk toward the faculty club, Stockdale limping and arc-swinging his stiff leg that had never fully recovered from repeated torture. Finally, after about a hundred meters of silence, I asked, “Who didn’t make it out?”
“Oh, that’s easy,” he said. “The optimists.”
“The optimists? I don’t understand,” I said, now completely confused, given what he’d said a hundred meters earlier.
“The optimists. Oh, they were the ones who said, ‘We’re going to be out by Christmas.’ And Christmas would come, and Christmas would go. Then they’d say,‘We’re going to be out by Easter.’ And Easter would come, and Easter would go. And then Thanksgiving, and then it would be Christmas again. And they died of a broken heart.”
Another long pause, and more walking. Then he turned to me and said, “This is a very important lesson. You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.”
To this day, I carry a mental image of Stockdale admonishing the optimists: “We’re not getting out by Christmas; deal with it!”
There's a lot of wisdom in that sentence - and a big key to the kind of patience and determination it takes to get through this painful experience.
While I have no idea what will happen with my W - I am completely certain - and have unwavering faith in the fact that I will come out of this a better man - father, friend, son, and...possibly...husband.
NW, It does surprise me just how this process works in steps and stages...and how I continue to find out more about myself every day. My attitude changes, my faith in myself increases - and my thoughts about my wife become more and more about compassion for her pain - and less about me or us.
It does look like I'll be here in LA this weekend...suddenly have a lot of work due early next week - so I'll have to work through the weekend - but I'm planning on making the most of it - seeing some friends on Saturday - and playing some soccer on Sunday...I'm also going to get a small Christmas tree - so that my sons and I can celebrate it together before my S11 and I leave for our trip to Ohio. I really want to have the moment of watching my baby boy unwrap his presents...and so we'll do it as a small family...just the three of us...but full of love...damn...I just made myself cry...
