Guys...chime in

[BobbiJo]

Thanks so much Phoenix. Sounds like the 'live separately under the same roof' type approach until Christmas is over? Basically I know in my gut level that H won't make any choice to be with me until he truly feels what it is like to be without me. He has never had to experience that even through the A's as I thought unconditional love was what we were supposed to offer as Christians. I am learning now the difference between unforgiveness and lovingly rebuking/holding someone accountable.

And Alex, the "no private messages" I have heard is b/c they don't want two db-ers to 'hook up', to grow that close to each other while they are supposedly trying to heal their marriages. That is what I have heard anyway, but it still happens. I know of at least 2 instances where this board brought people together and in once case they are now married......

OK back to the guys now....

[lovehimso]

Phoenix,

I think a lot of the words of cheating husbands are saying just enough of what the wife wants to hear to keep them on the hook.

This is what I feel is happening in my sitch. My H seems to want to keep his friendship with me, be able to hug and kiss me because "it's comfortable" (but not because he has any real loving feelings toward me), see the kids whenever he wants, have his happy, little family when it's convenient for him, not have any responsibility, and keep his girlfriend as well. So, he says just enough to give me hope and keep me tolerating his crap. But, actions speak louder than words. He's no closer to breaking off his relationship with OW now than he was two months ago, even after I have tried to give him what he says he needs, which is time and "space". I'm starting to get fed up with the whole thing.

[StrgMarvelousWmn]

I am with you, Love.

Time to put their feet to the fire a bit. Loving detachment at its finest. Seems like a lot of us LBWs are getting our crap in one bag AND holding onto the bag.

SMW

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Unfortunately, when someone is wayward, "I need space" usually just means "I need space in which to conduct my affair, unencumbered and un-frowned-upon.

[lovehimso]

Gucci,

Thank you so much for the guy's point of view. I have suspected that this was the case. However, I really want to believe that my H is "different". I also DON'T want to believe that my H has so little regard for me. Maybe it's time that I face the facts.

It seems to me that I have seen a number of women on this site that sound to me as if they are saying something like this:

"My poor, poor hubby, who I have caused so much pain and is out having an affair with another woman, is hurting very very badly and I can feel his deep pain. Others that I talk to also agree with me, that when they see him they can see how depressed he is and oooohhh how deep his pain is that I caused him."

Did you quote this directly off my thread? This is me. My feeling is really more that I know the pain that he ONCE FELT. Not sure that he feels it anymore. I am sorry for the pain I caused him, but he doesn't care, because he has someone else meeting all those needs that I didn't. But when I really think about it, he caused me a lot of pain in our M, too. It wasn't all me. And he certainly doesn't care about the pain he's causing me NOW.

I don't see the women on here ALLOWING him to go through much pain. They keep allowing him to avoid it because they let him have his cake and eat it to... All too much and too often. God forbid, if someone like me tells you to get strong and let him possibly think he has lost you and that he needs to grow up. (which is the thing that works the best from my perspective as a man who has done such things in my past and what has worked the best on me and most any man for that matter)

Gucci, this is the direction I am leaning. I am at the point where I am in too much pain to continue to allow this man to treat me this way. I'm not totally "there" yet, because I'm struggling with my feelings of love I still have for him and I don't want to make decisions like this in the heat of an angry moment that may be pms related. But, that's the reason I am in pain; I love him deeply and he knows this, yet he continues to hurt me, KNOWING that he's doing it, DOESN'T care, and seems to be playing some sick mind game with me. My patience is not infinite. I don't want to be this man's friend, whenever it is convenient for him. I want to be his WIFE! I AM still his WIFE, whether he thinks so or not. He IS cheating on me, whether he believes it or not.

Can you tell I'm getting angry? For a while I thought, maybe I deserve this. Well, you know what? I don't deserve this. If he really loved me, he would have stopped the A and focused on giving our marriage another try. Instead he's made the OW his priority and that points me toward the harsh reality that he really DOESN'T love me, he loves HER.

Maybe my own thread is really the place for this rant. But since it started as a reply to your comments, I'll leave it here and maybe post it on my thread as well.

[lovehimso]

Seems like a lot of us LBWs are getting our crap in one bag AND holding onto the bag.

Yep, it's all one big crap-bag! And they have the nerve to get angry with us when we say we're sick of holding it.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

My patience is not infinite. . .

Have you told your husband this???

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Seems like a lot of us LBWs are getting our crap in one bag AND holding onto the bag.

Yep, it's all one big crap-bag! And they have the nerve to get angry with us when we say we're sick of holding it.

LHS,

Whatever you decide to do, do NOT do it out of anger. Even the "tough love" approach (heck, ESPECIALLY the tough love approach) should be done out of careful consideration, planning, and prayer.

Moves made out of anger are rarely the right ones.

Puppy

[GoingForward]

Sorry, I know this thread is for the guys, but this stuck out at me:

It seems like most women tell themselves this:

"If I throw him to the curb, he will think that I don't love him anymore"????????....

Boy if I would have known women thought like this when I was single, I would have dated 10 women at a time. I didn't realize that women respond better when you have a few women on the side that when you were faithful.... HMMMMMM

Reminded me of something I read in "For Men Only", which I read before giving to my H.

In the beginning of the book, the author talked about a survey they did with both men and women and discovered this - That most men would rather feel unloved than feel unappreciated and disrespected. On the other side, a large number of women would rather feel unappreciated and disrespected than feel unloved.

This might help to explain why so many women don't take a firm stand against ongoing As. Perhaps some are afraid to lose their Hs because they might wonder, "If I don't hold onto H, who will love me?" It's a crippling mindset and a tough one to overcome. JMO.

[lovehimso]

Unfortunately, when someone is wayward, "I need space" usually just means "I need space in which to conduct my affair, unencumbered and un-frowned-upon.

This has been my gut-feeling about this whole "space" crap all along, Puppy. I've been in denial, but this thought has been in the back of my head the whole time.

I have told my H that I could understand his reasoning if he wasn't involved with either me or the OW, if he was really taking the time to "make a decision". And he's said, "I think I need to get away from both of you for a while." But he's been in no hurry to do that. And I've told him that he has in fact already made his decision. He makes his decision every day.

And at first, he told me that he needed until the end of the year. Now that that is fast approaching, he has extended his timeline to mean some indefinite number of months, and since he is looking for an apartment, I believe he expects me to sit around and wait for him for at least a year (because I don't see any place going month-to-month with him right away, don't most places want you to sign at least a one-year lease?). I don't have the patience for that.