And I'm Still Learning

[VeronicaV]

Cotoffguard,

Thanks for the insight. You make an excellent point about the rings. Guess I will have to make that call if and when there is another meeting.

Okay, already heard back from H on my email and I am interested in any thoughts, please:

H says,

I am traveling a lot for work. I am happy to do that but I feel a bit alienated, so what else is new. Thank you for the message. I am glad you are doing well. I wish I could say the same. Off to City X.

H.

I replied that I am sorry to hear he feels alientated, cannot be a pleasant feeling and sorry to hear not well, as his friend, of course I want him to feel he is doing well. Let me know if I can ever be of help - always happy to provide an ear. Safe trip. B.

Not sure there is very much here to interpret. I am just looking for any signs to keep my hope alive. So if anyone has any, please share...

Thanks,
Beth

[cotoffgard]

Hi Beth,

I'd avoid trying to "interpret" anything from his reply. We're told to not believe anything our spouses say and only half of what they do. What was your goal when you emailed him, and was that goal met? How are you closer to your H with this email exchange? Even though you said you didn't have any, your reaction intimates that you had a few expectations, so what were they?

Those are the thoughts and questions I ask myself every time I have this compulsion to email my WAW. My goal is simple: to get ONE response from her hahaha! Sounds simple, but it's been close to 4 months incommunicado...I'll take what I can get!

Keep hope alive by letting go, Beth. The more you get sucked into his world, the harder it is to keep a clear, focused mind to effectively DB. It's really tough, but I know you have it in you! You're so much tougher than you think you are!

[Tawnya]

Beth..I have to say, following cot's line of thinking, technically you already got MORE than you expected, because you didn't expect him to respond. IMHO, I think he was "baiting" you and you took it, a little bit, by him saying he felt alienated..remember, HE chose to leave, not you, and the person choosing to stay alienated is also him..so don't let him make you feel BADLY because you are doing ok and he is feeling some of the ramifications of his actions..

Again..just my thoughts..take the good and toss out the rest LOL

Hugs to you!!

Tawnya

[VeronicaV]

Cotoffguard,

Good questions. My goal was to try something different because it was starting to drive me crazy that he was not contacting me.

As for expectations, I truly did not have any. I did hope that he would reply and he did, so in that sense, my goal was accomplished. The problem is that I want what I cannot have, a good step in the direction of reconciliation right now. That is part of the reason I always want to interpret actions.

I get confused with this process, I really do. The DR book says experiment and see what happens. So, don't we have to interpret the results of the experiment? Also, I really try, I swear I do but I cannot understand how letting go will help me keep my hope alive. I am afraid if I let go, then he just keeps drifting further and further away.

Another thing I find confusing, the DR book says that we can change others, that we do it all the time. If we change how we behave, they may change how they react. Yet we tell each other on this board that we can only change ourselves. My hope is that an email like this, which is a 180 for me in that it shows my strength rather than my neediness, brings about that sort of change MWD talks about.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that I was unhappy with the status quo, and wanted to send H a message that I am resilient. I think it is far too hopeful to think it would bring about an immediate proclamation from him of his love for me, but I do hope that I have planted a seed for him that helps him feel more comfortable being around me.

The DB coach said the first stage is all about creating a neutral guilt-free zone between the couple. That the WAS feels very guilty for the pain he caused. The more I can neutralize the guilt, the more comfortable he will hopefully feel in being around me.

Thank you so much for always trying to help me. You probably start to think I am a seriously remedial student. I am not so sure I am as tough as you think, but I am trying to hold on.

Also, I know you have it rough, so I thank you for your willingness to listen to me being upset about my sitch when all you would like at this point is a response.

Beth

[cotoffgard]

"The DR book says experiment and see what happens. So, don't we have to interpret the results of the experiment?"

I think what's confusing is the goal-setting process. MWD mentions that your goals should be very clear, finite, attainable, and measurable. Interpretation of the results should go no further than a simple "yes" or "no" answer. I've struggled with ethereal goals myself, but if you break it down to simple actions like:

• have her/him email me back
• make her/him smile
• have her/him schedule the next in-person meeting

...all the while keeping an eye on the big picture of ultimately reconciling, your journey will be that much more effective.

Small bite-sized pieces...celebrate the small wins as if they're large ones...stay the course...energize yourself with GAL activities and sustain high PMA...move upwards and onwards!

"Another thing I find confusing, the DR book says that we can change others, that we do it all the time. If we change how we behave, they may change how they react. Yet we tell each other on this board that we can only change ourselves."

I don't see a contradiction in what you just mentioned. We can only change ourselves and how we react to our WAS, but by doing so we increase the likelihood of them reacting positively to our changes. Nothing's guaranteed in life, but we can certainly increase our odds tremendously!

You ARE tougher than you think you are! Search where you were 4 months ago and compare it to who you are now...huge strides that only the strong can make. We just get bogged down looking at the road directly in front of us. I like that quote from "Enter the Dragon"..."It is like a finger pointing away to the moon. Do not concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory."

[VeronicaV]

Cotoffguard,

You are a lifesaver! You may need to start writing books. I am printing this post of yours and taping it to my mirror. I wish I could figure out how to quote on this goofy site. You are right! I forgot all about the importance of setting clear, finite, simple, attainable goals. It is all how one looks at this.

Obviously, my goal was unattainable and way too large: I want H to want to reconcile. Yeah, so does everyone. That was not going to happen with one little email, so I set myself up to feel defeated.

Restated goal: have H reply to my email and thank me. Goal achieved. Now, I use that to fuel the PMA/hope tank.

It is sooooo hard to stop focusing on the future and stay in the present. In the present, I tried something and it got a positive result. Now, wait a while, live my life and see if it sparks any action from H. Take note of what does or does not happen.

And thank you for the encouragement about my strength and the compliment. I need to work on my belief in myself. I have good self-esteem, I just have a hard time thinking of myself as strong. All the damned crying and wanting H back so badly makes me feel weak and pitiful.

I will reread my posts.

Beth

p.s. Will have to miss my first meetup event for work. UGH!!!

[techguy]

Hi Beth,

Also, I really try, I swear I do but I cannot understand how letting go will help me keep my hope alive. I am afraid if I let go, then he just keeps drifting further and further away.

Here's the thing... Do you really think your husband cares if you have hope or not? Can he even tell? Do you think he will change what he does if you hope or don't hope?

I think the answer is 'No' to all those questions. Husband may, over time drift away or he may come to his senses and move closer. We cannot know. But the point is that he will do that whether you hope or not!

Your hope will not change <anything> with your R. But I tell you what your hope does... it makes you miserable. The Buddhist's say that the only reason we have pain and suffering is because we have unfulfilled wants and desires.

You want and desire to be with husband. You can't have it. So the hopes are unfullfilled and you are suffering.

Give up the hope to be with husband and the pain goes away. (Yes, I know, easier said than done. But I have done it).

The point is that you can give up hope and still DB! That's exactly what I'm doing and I feel great. I'm going to Retrouvaille this weekend. That is a huge R-building thing. Yet I don't have hope for a positive outcome.

That doesn't mean I'm sure it will fail. It just means I have <zero> expectations. If it turns out well, great. If it turns out badly, that is OK too. I sleep fine at night and have absolutely no apprehension heading into the weekend. My mind is at peace, but only because I've given up my wants and desires!

[VeronicaV]

Hi Techguy,

As always, thank you for the time you take to help me.

I am going to get the book you recommended this weekend. It is time to start reading some Buddhist philosphy. That said, I am going to have to find my way to accept the approach. It sounds like it will definitely help me feel less miserable, but right now I cannot wrap my mind around letting go of hope.

Clearly a big struggle for me as both you and Cotoffguard have already posted to me on this problem of mine several times. I have more work to do to make myself feel better.

When I got home from work tonight, I had a big old breakdown - did it up Beth-style, lots of sobbing a good ache in the chest - classic. Could not figure out, why today? My mom suggested that it was caused by H traveling. I think she is on to something. It makes me feel abandoned (we know this is a big issue for me) and it makes me feel like we have no chance to reconcile because he can just pick up and leave the city any time. Clearly, another area for improvement.

Why is the detaching/letting go of hope thing so bloody difficult for me? Why can't I get to a better place for myself? I realize I am the only one standing in my way.

I am feeling a bit calmer, now.

Thanks again for your help through this, you, too Cotoffguard.

Beth

[techguy]

Question: Do you believe in your heart that things will be OK if husband divorces you and never looks back?

This is the core to detaching. You have to believe that things will be Ok if it comes to D. Maybe not right away... but someday.

If you don't believe things will be OK, then you will never be able to detach... your fear will keep you clinging to hopes for reconcilliation, no matter how remote and painful.

This is where independence and perhaps even a touch of arrogance helps. I have come to believe that I would probably be happier long term if the divorce happened. Now, I am going to stick to the DB and reconcilliation path as I took an oath to god. And I also owe my children that much. But if God has a different plan for me (divorce), then I will accept his plan and move on to a new life with much happiness.

I believe this and I accept it. And because of that I am able to detach. If I didn't believe it, then I wouldn't be able to detach and I would be in as much pain as you.

[cotoffgard]

"Could not figure out, why today?"

Hey! Welcome to the "I hate Tuesdays/Wednesdays" club!

Thanks for the compliments! I'm just passing on what others have given me. I hope we all pick the best and forget the rest!

Too bad about the scheduling conflict. Try to schedule another one for the weekend if possible. It really does a body and mind some good to be socializing again