Please send me good karma!!....I'm gonna need it!

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I feel like I have lost a lot of ground in just two weeks since the PA bomb. How do I get that ground back?

I'll have to follow you for awhile before I can answer that with some specific examples, but I'll try to do that. For now, I'd like to see you stop being so REACTIVE, and to stop turning to your HUSBAND for your shoulder to lean on and cry on, and just start with those two things. There's not a lot of wisdom I can add beyond some of the sage stuff you've already received here, including from some real vets. MLC has its own wrinkles, and my experience is more with infidelity specifically, but there's a lot of overlap. Conveying strength, calm and resolve is one of those overlaps.

It's easy to play for his sympathy. Mucher harder to play for his RESPECT, and for his ATTRACTION.

Puppy

[Silent Chrleader]

It's easy to play for his sympathy. Mucher harder to play for his RESPECT, and for his ATTRACTION

You said a mouthfull there!! So true!!

And I get so mad at myself when I cry! I have always done that when I am hurt or angry. And I know H sees it as weak! I really have been trying to just be calm, straightforward, and confident in my dealings with H over the last couple of weeks, but that is so hard to do when we are dealing with STD testing, S17 wrecking the car, major financial issues with 2nd home just finished this summer (and market crashed).......

I am sooooo ready for this year to be over! And here I was looking forward to the year of our 25th anniversary (I had hoped to take a trip to Europe!)

Thanks, Puppy!

[Silent Chrleader]

I am nervous about today's MC session. I would like H to step up an lead so I can listen, but he rarely does that, and the C won't "lead", so that leaves it to me. I've been thinking aboout what I want to say when/if it comes to that. I absolutely don't want to "interrogate" him and have him clam up and run, but there are some things I need to see from him. Such as:

1. What does he want from a relationship? [This doesn't have to mean now. It just means what he would like from a relationship eventually.]
2. What does he have to give to a relationship? [What would he like his role to be in a relationship?]
3. What specifically does he believe he did to contribute to the breakdown of our marriage. [This is NOT for blaming, but simply to look honestly, so we can both learn from this and not make the same mistakes again in our next relationship, whether that is with each other or not.]
4. Why does he feel such a strong need to "get drunk" several times a week?
5. Why does he think he is only happy at work?
6. Why does he think the affair happened?

These are big issues and, of course, will not be worked out in just a few sessions, but these are things he has to face and answer if we are ever going to be able to build a new R. I don't want to push too much too soon, but neither am I willing to just keep treading water in our R, and walking on eggshells for the next several months. I'm afraid that then H would just stay in his shell, and then say "I gave it the college try." and be on his merry way, and neither he nor I will have learned what we needed to learn from this!

If nothing else, I am determined to at least have the respect of his honesty in this, as much as I can! I don't want to be his therapist! But, if I have to be the one ask the tough questions when in C, I will! Out of C, I will endeavor to be upbeat, confident, and no R talk, unless he instigates.

I also made plans (got tickets) for going to a Celtic Yultide music concert with my daughter, and to see Bill Engval live with my son in December. I had asked H if he was interested in that, but he wasn't so I wasn't going to go, but then I thought "WTF?" "Why not!!!"

Another sensitive issue I see on the horizon is the re-fi of the house in Chelan. He had promised me before that he would sell the house were to divorce (our dream house which I took loans on my retirement for and pushed for "him to have his dream"). Well, that was apparently a lie and he had waffled on his promise later saying he "didn't know if would sell it". This is a very emotional topic to me. He can't qualify for re-fi without my income. I don't think I am willing to sign any re-fi papers unless I get something in writing from H, that we will definitely sell the property if we divorce. I'm not looking forward to that conversation. Maybe I'll broach that one today in MC, so I have a "mediator".

[Silent Chrleader]

Feeling better today. MC yesterday was somewhat productive. We talked whole first hour about S17. We see he has been manipulating us somewhat and using the sitch in our M to his benefit to cover up some wrong choices. It turns our S17 wasn't driving car when they wrecked it. S17 let friend drive because S17 was drunk! Friend doesn't have a license! Very luck nobody was hurt! Also, S17 has been suspended from school for smoking. So, after MC session, H and I went home and sat down with S17 for good long talk. We provided united front for S17 and told him we have no more secrets in this family (so no more of S17 in the middle playing us against each other). H did most of the "parent" side of the talk and he was very calm and collected and didn't take the bait even when S17 threw up some of his own recent mistakes. I was very impressed with this 180 from H, because usually H would have lost his cool and just "laid down the law" and the battle would begin! Not this time!

I told H in MC that the practice of me calling and leaving a message and H deciding if it was "important enough" for him to call back was demeaning. But I don't want to "chase", so I asked if he could just call once per day to touch base with me (since we are trying to see if we can build a new R). H said he would certainly try but he did not want me to get bent out of shape or think "the worst" if he missed a day because he had a LOT going on at work and may forget. I told him that was fine. I also told him I did NOT want to be an obligation to him, I would just like him to try "letting me in" by sharing his day with me. He looked at me and said "Yes, that's the way we used to do it, huh. I guess I could do that."

At another point, H said that we was afraid of what would happen if he couldn't feel like I "would like him to feel". I told him that I only wanted him to give me the respect of completely honesty, because if nothing else, I wanted to learn all I could from this. And again, I told him I did not want to be an obligation to him. I want him to do what makes him happy and just let me know what that is, so we can really see if we can be happy together or not. H seemed OK with that, although obviously still skeptical. I told him I didn't blame him and knew there was a lot of water under the bridge, just like my concerns about his drinking. But he is a grown man so I can't control him, and he assured me that he would not get drunk when around S17, and would be safe as far as not driving, etc. So, I again reassured him that I was very supportive of his time with his new "guy buddy" group (which H had never done....always been a loner working in the garage type.).

Then we talked about having different interests being OK. Such as my current interest in Zen Buddhism, and his time watching games at the bar with his buds. H said that he did not have a problem with my interest, he just didn't want to join. I told him I didn't need him to join. I felt better after this part of the conversation, because things H has said in the past has made me afraid that he would use our differences as reasons to not be together, rather than something to be celebrated.

Tonight we have Parent conference at S17 school. Then we are going to start work on house projects. Tomorrow we plan to work on house projects all day. My mom and step-dad offered to come help, and H agreed that was OK. This is a big deal because H has had a HUGE problem with my mom in recent months (although they used to get along great). The fact that Mom offered and H said OK is a testament of both that they care for me enough to at least try to get along again, I think.

So, I am feeling stronger, trying to keep my expectations low, but seeing a lot of good reason for hope for a good future whether H and I are together or apart.

The OW is still popping into my mind all the time, but I am diligently working to just throw those thoughts in dumpster where they belong!!

[Puppy Dog Tails]

SC,

Was his affair discussed at all during the MC session???

Puppy

[Silent Chrleader]

Hi, Puppy.

We didn't talk about it so much this session, other than a few mentions of the emotionality and tension surrounding the STD tests we did, but we did talk about it in last weeks session and H has owned up to it and said he is very sorry. {and not just one of those "I'm sorry I hurt you" apologies, but a real "I'm very sorry I did it!It was a big mistake."

He is still very skeptical about the possibility of rebuilding our M, or whether he really wants to, but has agreed to be completely honest, spend time together and see where it goes. I too honestly don't know if I can ever get past it. It creeps into my thoughts all the time. Before this "one time", and H still says this is true and I have no evidence to disbelieve him, we had only been with each other, and I cherished that knowledge so much! I am one of those silly romantic types that reads the romance novels and all. I am very traumatized by this, to the point that I can't even read a "love scene" in a book without thinking of H and OW. But it is still a fairly recent discovery (2 weeks), so I am hoping that these feelings will subside and then maybe I can move on. For now, there's not much H can say that he hasn't said, so we just have to let time pass and see.

In actuality, H has been pretty calm, supportive and tolerant of my emotional swings, and I did let him know I appreciated his effort last night. I wasn't "gushy" or anything like that, I just acknowledged that I knew it was hard for him to remain calm and not get defensive and/or walk away, and I recognized the effort he made at doing that.

[Silent Chrleader]

Weekend was OK. H spent the night on Friday and Saturday. Did a lot of errands and got prep done for painting inside of house and putting down new flooring. Had a lot of time to talk in car on errands. Tried to make mostly "light" conversation, but also ended up doing some "heavy" talk. C has advised that I give thoughts in small pieces and then move on to "light" again and let H mull it over. So, I try to do this, but I second guess myself all the time. H is reserved but says he is trying to open up, and I want to believe him. Seems to listen and doesn't get angry like he used to.

I could say more about conversations, but you would all probably 2x4 me (and I do enough of that to myself already). Probably wasn't good "DBing", but I have been honest and true to myself, and honest with H. I do have my honor and my integrity and those are very important to me. This weekend there were no meltdowns, but there were moments of vulnerability, and moments of strength, and moments of laughter, on both our parts. And there was one moment where I asked if I could give H a hug, and he said "sure", and he gave me a real tight hug and I stopped hugging first. And I told him that I sincerely wanted only happiness for us both, and he said he did too.

So, today, I am OK.

[Silent Chrleader]

Journaling....

Had an OK time at "the ranch" for the 4 day weekend. Had some "heavy" talk on Wednesday on the drive to session with C. This was brought on by S17 ditching school and making poor choices and it took 2.5 hours to make the drive (normally 1 hr). Only ended up with half hour session with C, all with S17.

Then on Thursday morning had more talk about S17 regarding him finally telling H during "guy time" how he really had been feeling about H's actions lately. Not a fun conversation for H, but he seemed to handle it well. Thursday evening I got annoyed at H for his "ignoring" me. He wasn't really but was so stand-offish, it felt like it. H said he was trying but wants to go slow, which I understand and agree with, but I am a very affectionate type person and I miss little minor displays of affection so much!! I'm not talking about a lot! Just a kiss on the cheek to say goodbye and hello and stuff like that. But H isn't there at this point and that hurts. And then I get mad at myself again because he's the one that left and cheated and why should I even want any affection from him!!!????

The rest of the weekend (Fri - Sun) we had no "heavy" talk at all. I did my best to ignore H's cold attitude, but sometimes it got to me and I'm sure H knew it. But I tried to let it go.

I was also thinking that I really need to be practicing my meditation every day. I haven't been very diligent at it, and I think it would help me to let some of these things go more easily so the emotions don't build up. Hopefully that would help me with my patience!! I definitely need help with that!!

[Silent Chrleader]

Yesterday, I had another melt down with H. We were on the ferry riding home sitting in the car and H's cell rang and he answered and then jumped out of the car to take the call "privately". Doesn't take Einstein to guess it was OW. When he got back into car, I lost it. I told him that it was absolute BS that he feels so "pressured" by any phone conversation with me, but she calls and he's all there for her! I know this is par for the course in MLC, and he said it "wasn't that way" and that he was not going to talk to her in front of me, and that they still have contact because she is still doing some work for him because he still doesn't have a new secretary. I told him that people who hide something usually have something to hide! He said that he could have told me it was somebody else, but he didn't. He told me it was her. {He does have a point there}.

I did cry a little but most of the conversation I was angry! I told him that unless he can bend even a little when we are supposedly "working on things and seeing if we can re-build", we will never get anywhere. He said he knew that, but he wasn't ready to talk yet. He said he only wants to think of himself. I asked him if he could even imagine his boss (who is a "good christian man" who H really respects) or his best friend (who would do anything for anybody!) ever saying something like that? He said "that kind of talk doesn't work with me". I told him I can't build a relationship by myself, and I can't decide if he is someone I even want a relationship with and I've often thought I should just file for divorce. He said he understood that.

H said that the weekend was hard for him because even on the days when I thought I hadn't had "heavy talk", he feels pressure just sitting on the couch with me because he knows that I want him to hold my hand and he doesn't feel he can say "no". [I should note that ANY touching I did was light and that I asked if it was a problem and he said "no".] He said he just wasn't ready to talk about any of this yet, and I asked if he thought he ever would get there, if he ever imagined himself getting there? He said he imagined himself wanting to want to.

In the long run, he didn't run and slam the door behind him (and I gave him ample reason). I am paraphrasing here and hitting the hi-lites of the conversation, otherwise this would be a novel. He also said that he doesn't feel comfortable touching me because he feels ashamed of himself and doesn't like who he has become. I thought that was interesting.

In the end, I told him I absolutely do NOT want to chase (I've always done that) and I don't want to "drive" (he says I'm still doing that). I told him I want him to step up and let me know what he really is feeling and thinking eventually. I have pretty much said all I could and that I'm OK for waiting a while longer for him to take his journey, and I am OK for going SLOW! But I do have some small needs too and I will voice those as best I can as they come up. For now, I told him that I need a kiss on the cheek for hello, goodbye, good morning and good night, and a holding of the hand occaisionally (not all the time, not even necessarily half, but some of the time. I wanted that from him! And I will not initiate anything from my side at all! He said he thought he could be just fine with that and would endeavor to meet those needs. And then, before he left home last night, he gave me a kiss on the cheek goodbye.

It seems so strange to "negotiate" such things as this, and I know I'll be getting 2x4s, but I don't feel this was a setback really. But then I'm pretty good at fooling myself.......

[StrgMarvelousWmn]

TJ--

I am bookmarking your thread and will read through everything tomorrow. Thank you for getting mad for me today. I told a friend that I do not have to get mad at DH, that there are plenty of others willing to step in and do it for me. She is one of those and she said "damn straight, who do I send the boot to so they can kick him in the azz and knock his head out of it!" Gotta love good friends!

Hang tight sweetie and find your strength and confidence. It is still there, just lost under the crap that got piled on it. time to grab a shovel.

SMW