Maybe I should be in piecing part 4?

[Hope4us]

Or, when you finally talk about it, she understands. The letters seem to help and that is when you talk by writing.

Got to keep you looking at the glass half full.

Hard to look at the glass as half full when she's made absolutely no move towards the marriage, except when we were on vacation, and that ended when she went back to work.

I'm just tired WDID.

[Sakaro]

I know I've said this before, but I sometimes think it's going to take some drastic measure on my part before she even gives us a chance.

Yup, so any more info on the move?

[Hope4us]

I talked to my boss (now my old boss who will be my new boss when the move happens) today. He said he'd know more later this week.

Still looks like mid-January. Something's going to have to radically change with W for me to not just say, S16 and I are moving, let me know if you really want to try, if not, then stay here.

[whatdidido]

I know you are tired, Hope. I'm just saying that anytime you write her a note about your feelings she has responded well. You haven't talked about anything yet. Forget the drastic move...start with a talk.....

I know you have said you will talk first and then the move. But, the move just seems to be the big thing rather than the talk and that just seems backwards to me. And, I think you are going to do both at the same time.

You want her to move back to you other than at vacation time. WHy not talk about the fact that she is different? She talks about the future with you, etc. so she is not planning on leaving.....you have to talk about these things and your feelings and be open to her feelings. DOn't judge each other on the feelings, but work to resolve them together. Don't think to yourself "if she doesn't do x, I will move without her". Think if she is not doing x, we better talk about this and see why.

See what I'm saying?

[Hope4us]

I hear ya WDID. Problem is, she doesn't want to talk about ANYTHING. She'll tell anyone who listens that S16 doesn't know what he wants when they ask her if he wants to move. He WANTS to move, but she doesn't talk to him or listen to him when he talks to her.

Same with me. If I talk to her, she doesn't listen to WHAT I'm saying. She deflects what I'm saying to try to steer things to what she wants. There's really no give and take with her. Either things get done her way or she makes everyone's lives miserable.

I'm not sure she's responded well to my notes other than my notes that tell her to basically F off. The other notes I've given her laying out how I feel, how I recognize how we got to where we are, how I'll give her the time she needs, etc all get NO response from her. NOTHING.

I've told her before that IF our marriage is to have a chance, we HAVE to move. And she just says "why"? When I tell her about OM moving back here and how our marriage would never make it if that happened and we stayed, she just changes the subject. Now when S16 firmly states that he wants to move and why, she just says to him that he doesn't know what he wants or just ignores him. And then tells everyone else, S16 will be fine.

Yeah, she talks about a future with me, but what kind of future? Her sleeping on the couch for the next two years and then leaving the marriage because she "tried" and it didn't work, all the time not giving me any kind of thing I need in our marriage after the affair? And refusing to read any books, get rid of her affair stuff, talk about any of this with me?

It really hit me last night watching The Amazing Race. One of the couples in the race, the H cheated on his W and them doing this race is to see if they want to try to make their marriage work or not. And HE'S making the effort and letting his W decide to give him a chance or not. He wants to try. So I sit there thinking, why am I the one that is sitting here making all the effort and living in limbo until she decides when she's the one that has strayed? I just feel more and more that I should walk if she can't or won't face what she's done and still blames me for it happening.

Even if we make this work, do I want to live in a marriage where I'm blamed for my wife having an affair? What kind of a future do we have where one of us cannot or will not take any responsibility for their actions? I've repeatedly taken my portion of responsibility and have been working on the things she's complained about, but it's like she's thinking "I did nothing wrong and maybe, just maybe I'll give the 'animal' a chance if he can show me he's worth it". And how can I live like that and what kind of a marriage would we have going forward if that's how she thinks?

I don't know WDID. I wonder if this is just a trigger that I have to work through, but then I read about formerly wayward spouses helping their spouses work through these things and I think, we'll never get there because not only does she think she's done nothing wrong, but cares NOTHING for how her actions have affected me and our kids.

I'm sure I'll change my mind again tomorrow. It seems to take me a couple days to get past these triggers, but no thanks to any help from her. I just think that until she hits rock bottom she'll never give us a chance and as long as I'm kissing her a**, she'll never hit rock bottom.

[whatdidido]

If only you could say all that you just said in your last post to her. I think she would understand.

One of your requirements could be that she go to counseling with you so at least you can say all of those things and know she hears it. A counselor would help make it so that she does.

I really don't see her leaving you so I don't see why you can't tell her you need these things to keep going on.

[Dr LOve]

Hope4,

WHy couldn't you live in California?
I would love to gp out for a beer with ya and discuss our Wives..

[fightingirish]

Hope,

Im sorry, I know how fustrated you are my friend. I know how long the road has been for you and how much effort you've put into trying.

But wdid is right. I think you should tell her exactly how you are feeing because frankly i don't think she will go anywhere. Usually the people that put on a strong front and are stubborn are actually the weakest ones. don't underestimate the power of words, maybe this is what she needs to here from you to make her get a clue.

Thinking of you...

[Hope4us]

Thanks guys. I really appreciate it. I'm getting out of my funk. It was really quiet around the house last night. S16 was in his room most of the night doing homework and there wasn't much conversation between W and I. I was polite and smiled at her a number of times when she tried to start a conversation, but I just wasn't in the mood. I think she could tell not to push it and she didn't.

Funny thing is, I think the PMS'ing must about be over because she was different. Too bad I wasn't in the mood because I could tell she was in a better mood. But how long can I keep up with this stuff? I don't know. Maybe I'm dealing with a two headed monster, pre-mentapausal and WD from an affair. Guess it'll take patience I never knew I had.

I went to bed early and thought a lot. I think I'm going to just act "as if" we're going to make it until I know more about this transfer and then sit down and have "the talk". I'll share my feelings like you guys have suggested and see what she says. I'll be sure to express how I feel like us moving is the only hope our marriage has and if she doesn't want to play along, then she can figure out what she wants by herself.

You guys could be right about her not going anywhere. I remember a comment OMW made to me probably a year ago. She said that OM told her my W had said she would never leave me. I'm not sure I buy that as she talked about divorce a couple of times after that, but she's still here and still talking about our future so I guess I have to take that for what it is.

I was reading on another board the other day and a woman said it took her H a full year to de-fog. So I wonder if I'm just too impatient? Sometimes I wish we'd have never been intimate while on vacation. Prior to that I had detached so well and then we have that GREAT week and I think we're moving forward and BAM, setback when she goes back to work.

Oh well, thanks for proping me up. If I didn't have you guys to listen to me bit*h I'd have probably left a long time ago.

Oh, and one more thing. I remember reading quite a while ago when I was excited that I'd finally busted up the A and someone on another board told me "now the really hard part starts". I guess I never believed him at the time, but it's oh so true. Definitely harder at this point than when I KNEW who the enemy was.

[whatdidido]

"Now the really hard part starts"....isn't that the truth?.....for the fww as well........It's a journey, and you get to take it with the woman you married and had kids with. Not everyone gets this chance. Hold on tight.