Maybe I should be in piecing part 4?

[sandi2]

Hope4Us and Puppy......you guys......you're the best. I wanted to contact the mods last night (err...this a.m. actually) and ask them if they would just delete all those stupid posts I sent. I should know by now when I sat up all night that I end up saying somethings that I shouldn't. I just get too tired and need to go sleep and can't due to the Fibro...but anyway, I hope by now that both of you know me well enough to know when I am playing around with you in my weird way and when I'm serious and when I am mixing it together (man, I don't expect much, do I?).

Anyway, I understand fully about Puppy's titles and he has been nothing....nothing but respectful to me. I should not be so sensitive about other women who have cheated on their H's being called what they are! Like I said....it is out of my own self induced pain that I re-act.

You are very correct in that every stitch is a little bit different and through the time that you, Puppy and I have had our differeces of opinions about the exposure......I have done a lot of thinking about it. Now I still maintain that in my partiuclar stitch that it would have caused major fallout that would hurt many, many people to learn what I did. I was exposed but I pray to God that no more will find out for their sakes. I already feel that I have lost what took a lifetime to build and that God may never allow me to be in the place that I once was (which I can't get into that) but just try to trust me on that part. I still do not think it should be gossiped about or revealed by the spouse to everyone around town. But, if the affair is flaunted and apparently there is no shame, or if it is being whispered around town about the A, then I have had some second thoughts about the parents being "warned" about what is whispered and also if there are older kids in the home. I still want to protect the innoncent and if a couple can work out the ugly mess with as few people being involved as possible.....then I still believe in taking that route. But, I try to be open and at least consider and re-think about things that are discussed and I believe I have on that subject.

I hope you and Puppy both know I respect you a lot! I tease and pick at Puppy .......just b/c he's Puppy (lol). No, seriously, I do it b/c I like him and I know he can take it. I think he feels the same by me (I hope he does). And....I hope he reads this b/c it is to him also.

I swear, you would think that I drank when I stay up late.....but I promise I don't touch a drop....lol. I will have to do like I read another poster said she put a message on her phone to keep mouth closed.

Anyway, I should know to go back and catch up on a story before I re-act and open my big mouth. I am concerned about your W. I do feel that she is struggling to do the "right" thing. But, sweetie, I think she is very weak and she needs a man to help her stay strong. She needs her H. I hope that something will work out that she will change her mind and move with you when you leave to move back home. It could be a brand new beginning for the two of you, and I hope she will see that. Perhaps, something will be said to make her think about that. I used to move around when I was a kid and yes, it is hard when you're in school, but he'll be fine....especially if he "wants" to go back home. I worry about her holding back and using him as her excuse. I worry that she may still have some lose ends in an EA that has not been snipped.....even if it is just all still in her fantasy.

Well, you know I want only the best for you.....always have. You have been a trooper......I hand you that!! How much time do you have before you will have to move? You probablys said and I was too out of it for it to register.

Anyway, take care and I'll check back. I'll try not to wait so long in between times. I get caught up in one or two that are having a really bad time of it and the next thing you know.....I have lost track with some of my old favorites. Oh, BTW, is that what you call a long post??? (lol)

Love ya,
Sandi

[Hope4us]

Sandi, oh Sandi. At the risk of offending you, which is NOT the way this is intended, you sound like to me your fog has cleared. And I mean that in the most respectful way. Some of your arguements about exposure and the reasons you've used for why it would have made you walk sounded so....foggy. I understand completely where you're coming from, I really do, but I was thinking about this last night....

My W still hangs on to the idea that I'm the one that has damaged things almost beyond repair because I exposed to OMW, our kids and a few, very few close friends. What she seems to not get is that there is only ONE reason that OMW, our kids and our close friends know about her affair. That's because she HAD ONE.

Oh golly, not sure I want to get into this, but here goes.

I understand all the dynamics of why people have affairs. I really do. I understand the "I didn't go looking for this" and I understand how once involved in one how difficult it can be to get out, but the fact remains, if a WS would have come to their spouse and actually talked to them about how they were feeling and that something was wrong in their marriage and they tried to work on it and it just didn't work and then they divorced, that's one thing. But to start an affair and then re-write the marriage history to justify the affair means (to me) that they give up the right to secrecy. That secrecy is exactly what allowed the affair to happen in the first place.

I also understand that there are many WS's that feel like they've conveyed to their spouse they've been unhappy for years and their spouse didn't listen so they justify their affair saying "my spouse didn't listen when I told them how unhappy I was".

And I also understand that every sitch is different. I was reading another article last night that said that when WS's have affairs in a "good marriage" that the recovery is all that much more difficult because the WS HAS to rewrite the marital history and demonize their spouse to make the affair ok in their minds and that some spouses NEVER can face the fact that their marriage was good to begin with and that THEY are the one's that were the cause of the affair and not anything their spouse did. And I'll go to my grave thinking that's the case in our marriage. Was I perfect? NO. Did we have a good marriage before, IMHO, YES. I know that doesn't do anything for me where we are right now because in her reality, I was an "animal" and was the cause of her straying. So I have to work towards trying to save our marriage from that point of view, but I'll argue till the cows come home that our marriage was GOOD and that's why it's so difficult for her to let go, because then she would have to face the fact that she did this to our marriage and I just don't know if she'll ever be able to face that.

Ok, now back to my regularily scheduled sitch.

I agree with you Sandi that my W is in a very weak place right now. I have mentioned to her already that it scares me for us to be separated for 4 nights a week for 4 months or so at this point in our marriage. I didn't press the issue at the time, but the seed has been planted.

W was really up and down yesterday. I think she's PMS'ing, which doesn't help matters, but it was almost funny how her mood changed from one minute to the next. Even S16 said to me "what's wrong with mom today"? I went to a H.S. state championship game yesterday afternoon. A small school just outside of our hometown was playing so I thought I'd go. I know a number of the kids and their families so I thought it would be fun. I asked W if she wanted to go and she said "it's on T.V. isn't it" and I said "yes" to which she replied "Uh..no, I'll stay in the warmth and watch it on t.v." Can't really blame her there.

But when I left she was in one of her down moods. I got to the game and a bit later TM'd her that I'd seen the Pastor from our church in our hometown. She replied with some fun TM's but then a really snotty one. So I didn't reply. After the game I saw where she'd TM'd me a couple times during the game and the last one (at 5:00) asked me if I wanted her to make Taco's for dinner. I called her when I saw the TM (at 5:25) and said taco's sound good if she wants to make them and she said "I'll see if I feel like it". WTF? 25 minutes between her nice TM offering to make dinner and when I replied and her mood changed again.

I get home and she's pretty much ignoring me. But I keep talking to her and she opens back up. Golly she's a mess.

Ok, so today is the trip to my mom's for pseudo Thanksgiving. My mom is 77 and can't do the big meal like she's done in the past so she just has a regular lunch at her house on the Sunday after. And W had been saying for a month that she was going, but in the last couple days she's been doing her best to back out. I haven't really said anything to her about it. I'm not going to give her a get out of jail free card. If she doesn't want to go, then she's going to have to say so. But HEY, she's upstairs showering right now. So that means she's going. She did ask me last night what stores were at this shopping area not too far from my mom's. I told her I wasn't sure. I think she'll probably use that shopping area as an excuse if she's feeling uncomfortable at my mom's. And that's ok. She NEEDS to see that my brother isn't going to treat her any differently because of her A. But I'll understand completely if she needs to get out of the house for a bit. In fact, I know exactly how she feels. For a long time I couldn't stand to be at my mom's house for longer than a couple hours when W was heavy in her affair and my mom didn't know. It just felt deceitful to be there with mom and lying by ommision.

Ok, I've rambled enough. I'll update when we get home this evening.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

As my wife's Aunt Tess would say, "She needs a good hair-pullin.'"

Good lord. The tacos thing was just snotty.

Puppy

[fightingirish]

hope,

I don't get her attitude with you at all?? Why is it so necessary for them to act so rude.

H snapped at me last night and I ignored him. He got the point, but i think this crap takes a long time before they really get how they are acting, or maybe they just don't care.

I hope she does go with you, if she does, this will be big for her.If she doesn't, don't get discouraged, she's having a hard time facing her demons on her own let alone in front of family. But she should have thought about that before she had the A, her problem, not yours.

(((((hope))))

[sandi2]

Yes, I am out of the fog...."now" thank the Lord. But, I was speaking of what I would have done as an AWAW and at the time still very deep in the fog--if my H had exposed my EA to friends and relatives. B/c of the condition I was in then, I would have left the country if I could have gotten away b/c of my humiliation. I still would hate for people to discover what happened b/c I still see it as very personal between me and my H and I would not expose him to friends, relatives, and others about his "sins" that they don't know about. However, I went back last last night (or rather....all night long b/c I couldn't sleep) and tried to read Puppy's old thread and I understood where he was coming from much better and since his wife was like she was......I'll have to say that I couldn't really blame him for what he did. Man, she was something! I think the way he looked at it was that if she was going to bust the M, then he was going to bust the A. So, he felt he had nothing to lose. In my stitch, it was not just a matter of me and my H.....not even a matter of our kids being involved.....it would have been much more.

But, I do think every family stitch is different and I will always be grateful that my EA was not exposed more than what it was and pray that the information does not get into the wrong hands b/c a lot of damage could be done by that. Didn't I think of all that when I was doing my "thing" with OM? I wasn't "thinking" at all! I was in la-la land. You talk about mood swings! That is why I am concerned about your W. However, if she is still having PMS....oh, bless her heart! That would be a double whammy! Not to mention what you and the kids have to deal with. But, I just don't think she is out of the woods yet. That's why I am leary of her being left alone.

I can understand how uncomfortable she would feel around your family. I would too! That is very personal stuff they know about her. I left my H when our baby was little (only a few days) and was pressured to go back to him. He immediately wanted me to go to his parent's house for dinner and I didn't want to b/c I knew what to expect. Oh, he promised it would be fine and that they wouldn't treat me any differently. Well, the entire family was there....including aunts and uncles. After dinner, he went in the front room with the men watching TV and left me alone with the women.....ha! He lied. They did treat me differently and I had done nothing wrong (like an A) back then. Men just don't always see everything that goes on after they leave the room. I think my H was so blind or else he could not preceive what was happening, but I nearly hated him for putting me through that. Of course when I tried to tell him what happened.....it was just all my imagination. Yeah, right! Blood is thicker than water and don't you ever forget it. And, btw, why on earth would you feel that you were lying by ommision to your parents by not telling them about the personal problems between you and your W? Do you tell them everything personal that happens between the two of you? I don't mean to be the one sounding "snotty" now, but I am just trying to understand the differences in people and families and their upbringing, I suppose. I was raised not to talk about me and my H's sex life with others, while my in-laws knew everytime any of them did anything, how it went, & how long it lasted.....lol. I guess it depends on how close families are and how you are raised. But, she may not have been raised to discuss things of that nature and although she is the one that strayed.....she will feel as though she is being punished over and over again and again everytime she has to face your family or the friends that know. That will put more stress on her and therefore on the MR. That is the downside of it. It makes her, you, and them feel uncomfortable by knowing too much personal information. So, see, I still have a hard time completely letting go of some of my original stand on how I see exposing the A to "everyone". I think, for my stitch, it would have been the last straw and no turning back--even if I had wanted to return to the M, but I cannot fully explain "why" without disclosing too much. Anyway, we aren't going to argue over it. We will continue to learn from each other as we go along this trip.

In closing, I would like to suggest that you ask your W about having a good female check-up with her doctor. Lots of changes goes on in our bodies as we get older and it isn't fun. It affects our minds, attitudes, and everything I can think of, really. I went for over 25 years that I needed surgery before I gave up to have it. Now is that crazy or what? But, I had heard such horror stories until I was afraid. Man, I could have kicked myself for not having it done sooner! I felt so much better. But, you got to have those good ole hormone replacements or you are one more b*tch, just like in the PMS days. Well, if you don't have a nervous break-down first, that is. So life is just a party for us gals, huh? Sorry it is so hard on you guys. I think my family had a secret party when I went to the hospital to have my surgery....lol.

Gosh, how do I get off on some of this stuff? I'm going to go get a nap.

Take care,
Sandi

[Hope4us]

Don't have much time to post. Work is going to be crazy this week, but thought I would do a quickie update.

W went to my mom's with us. And it was like I suspected. My brother (the only one who knows) was fine with W.

W spent a lot of time early on in the kitchen with my mom and nephew's son (he's 2). I know she didn't feel comfortable being in the living room where my brother was (along with my other brother, my son's, my nephew). But a little later she had moved into the dining room next to the living room and then towards the end of the day she had moved into the living room, so that was good.

When we got home I told her thanks for going, that it meant a lot to me and she didn't respond. Man, she's a mess. But we spent the rest of the evening watching football and having a good time, W, S16 and I.

But of course, we watched Desperate Housewives and there were some things that went on in the show that hit me hard. And made me start to think again, 'just why am I wasting my time when she is either still in contact with OM or won't let go of the idea that this is all my fault'? I just don't know if we'll ever get there with her stubbornness. So what am I doing.

Ok, I have to run. I'll respond more to some things that were written since my last post when I have time.

[whatdidido]

Whew, you had some long posts there......busy weekend and first time I could catch up.

Just a quick comment.....you can't keep going on the rollercoaster of "what should I do?" based upon her moods. I've noticed things are the most up and down during her monthly time (you always tell us). Women are moody/emotional anyway, and during that TOM even more so. I remember Saffie saying something once about this....it really made me think. I do think I have some hormone problems myself. After having my child, things started to change. Anyway, keep that in mind....we are up and down (quiet and talkative, excited and depressed, etc.)...Sometimes, it could be helpful to see a doc about it.

DOes that justify meanness toward you? No. And, you can call her on it and let her know that you don't like it. YOu have done this before and she has almost always turned it around. We aren't always aware of how snappy we can get.

[Hope4us]

Thanks WDID. I'm learning about the moods. Good golly, I'm 47 years old, you'd think I'd learn by now.

W also has thyroid issues. She had her thyroid checked when she was younger and I'm not sure of the results of the test, but they ended up not doing anything. I know her mom takes medication for her thyroid, so yes, it would be a good thing for W to get that all checked out, but again, she won't do anything I suggest.

Case in point. While we were in Gatlinburg a weekend ago, W was putting on her jacket and had this painful look on her face. She's been having problems with her left shoulder. And it's not getting any better. I told her she needs to go to the Dr and get it checked out. She said "why". I replied that obviously there's something wrong when you can't even put on a jacket without it hurting to a point that you make faces and she said "it's fine". Well, that started a back and forth with me saying she should get it checked out and her saying "it's fine". So finally I said, "ok, I'll just call the Dr myself and make you an appointment" and she said in a very stern voice "I can take care of myself"!

So once again, this just shows how she is with anyone trying to help her in any way. It's like if she does let someone do something for her, then she isn't independent and can't take care of herself. And THAT is what I think could be a major problem in us getting through this. For her to come back to the marriage it would take her admitting that she didn't have IT all together when she took up with OM. That she made a wrong decision. And for her to admit that would destroy this wall she's got up around herself. So how do I keep going on trying when she still refuses to come to grips with her own contribution to what went on when to admit that would be letting that wall down and admitting that she does need someone (me)?

I know I've said this before, but I sometimes think it's going to take some drastic measure on my part before she even gives us a chance. And even then, she might just keep that wall up because it's easier for her to start over than to admit she needs anyone.

[whatdidido]

Or, when you finally talk about it, she understands. The letters seem to help and that is when you talk by writing.

Got to keep you looking at the glass half full.

[Hope4us]

Sandi, I wanted to comment about the family situation. I don't share everything with my mom (dad passed almost 6 years ago). What I mean by saying I feel like I'm lying by omission around my mom is that my mom has treated W like a daughter since we've been married. Mom had all boys so her DIL's are like the daughters she's never had. And W used to go see my mom with me on a regular basis. But W hasn't been to my mom's since July 4, 2007. And everytime we would go, my mom would ask "Where's W"?

So I would have to lie. "Oh, she wanted to go shopping today". "Oh, she didn't want to make the drive", etc. You yourself said you didn't want your family to know what had happened. So if I said to my mom "We're having problems and W doesn't want to be around you guys", then it would crush my mom. And she'd ask "what happened" and there is no way I would lie to her about that. She'd be able to see right through me. So I would just make up one of those excuses and change the subject. And that might work for a few months, but 16 months? Including Christmas?

Again, I really appreciate your comments Sandi. They are extremely helpful in trying to get into my W's head. And maybe this is a reason our marriage won't make it, but if W was so worried about what other people would say or think, she should have thought of that before laying on her back the first time.

One other interesting comment W made a couple weeks ago that I think reinforces what you're saying about her caring so much about what people think of her. We were discussing this one guy she works with transferring to a different state. This guy also happens to be one of the guys that OM hung around with when he was here. W said at his going away party at work she wanted to give him a hug but was worried that another lady she works with would spread rumors that she was having an affair with him because this other lady thinks it's inappropriate to give hugs to men that aren't your spouse. So I wonder if this lady has made some comments prior to this about W and OM and that's why she was so worried about giving this other guy a hug?

Ok, rambled enough. Thanks for the comments.