I think there's a fairly fine line here that's being bantered about.
Frank's wife, and any other spouse who chooses to walk away from their commitments, do NOT get a free pass. I don't particularly care what crisis she is or is not going through. And while I agree that such a hurtful decision as choosing to have affairs and destroy families has huge and painful repercussions on BOTH sides of the relationship, I still have no problem with pointing a finger of sorts at the spouse who chose to bail.
We did not ask for this upheaval.
Grown adults who have entered into a life long promise of love and life together KNOW that there will be hard times. They promise to find a way through those times together. They do NOT choose to bail on the relationship and turn to another person's bed.
And Amy, you know I love your perspective, your honesty, and your caring, but I flat out disagree with you when you throw about statements like
Quote:
This sounds like you're saying she should have stayed to make you happy and just allowed herself to remain miserable.
because to me this is nothing more that justification drivel. This is the kind of thing that those of us who are dumped hear from our spouses as why they are right to go off and break their promises. I'm not buying it. Happiness is fleeting and constantly changing. Happiness is not found in a perfect relationship, it is found within. Running from your commitments does not improve your chances of finding happiness one iota.
All of that being said, I'm very much in agreement with Amy when she states that you Frank are still not to the point of indifference yet. And part of the reason this is still a problem is that you refuse to separate your two lives to the point where your wife can no longer participate in the home she chose to walk away from.
You WANT her around. And so you allow it.
And I do think you want her around because you ARE hoping that you will one day get that arms-thrown-around-your-neck profession of love from her. You have to continue working on cutting that need and slowly but surely allowing her to go. At the same time Frank needs to begin moving forward in some tangible way with his life with his girls.
I'm still trying to figure out for example why neither of you have filed any type of proceeding yet. And if neither of you are ready to prepare divorce papers, I think it's at least long past due to get some type of temporary order in place regarding the girls and custody at least.
As long as your wife gets to continue playing this role of Mommy away finding herself, you will continue to be haunted with her presence and yet denied the part of her that you truly desire.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
So, Amy, you were the one leading the charge a few months ago against her when I was 'defending' her. Now she's suffering and you're defending her while I'm trying to let her go.
Yeah, I know her life is not a picnic and I still have 'expectations'. I want them to go away and I can only do that by cutting her out of my life more.
I do understand and agree with you when you say "She's out there growing up. Let her. It doesn't mean she doesn't appreciate the kindness you show her. It just means SHE AIN'T DONE. ."
No, she isn't.
I just want to move on, that's all. I'm the custodial parent which means I don't go out. She may not have a 'home' but she has a companion.
I just want to stop caring.
We aren't decorating tonight. We'll do it tomorrow.
And Amy, you know I love your perspective, your honesty, and your caring, but I flat out disagree with you when you throw about statements like
Quote:
This sounds like you're saying she should have stayed to make you happy and just allowed herself to remain miserable.
Amy, she was 'miserable' because she felt helpless and a victim. As our counselor said, she could have decided to be 'happy' and keep the marriage together, keep the kids happy. I never did anything to stop her from doing what she wanted to do. Never.
Quote:
All of that being said, I'm very much in agreement with Amy when she states that you Frank are still not to the point of indifference yet. And part of the reason this is still a problem is that you refuse to separate your two lives to the point where your wife can no longer participate in the home she chose to walk away from.
You WANT her around. And so you allow it.
And I do think you want her around because you ARE hoping that you will one day get that arms-thrown-around-your-neck profession of love from her. You have to continue working on cutting that need and slowly but surely allowing her to go. At the same time Frank needs to begin moving forward in some tangible way with his life with his girls.
lucky for me W has a good book on divorce that has been sitting on the floor in 'her room' for months. It's time for me to look at it and see what I need to be doing next to protect myself and my kids.
So, Amy, you were the one leading the charge a few months ago against her when I was 'defending' her. Now she's suffering and you're defending her while I'm trying to let her go. I'm not defending her. I'm trying to keep you from going off the deep end and ending up hating her. This was her choice, yes. But everything that led up to her making this choice was not within her control. Should she have received help earlier in life? Hell yes. But the fact is no one knew how much she needed it. Not her. And apparently not you either. I detest what she has done to your family, but I won't sit here while you erect an ivory tower and sound like you think you're so much better than her. At least she's 'out there', Frank. With nothing to hold onto. That actually leaves her at the mercy of God and whatever He deems it necessary that she learn. She's actually in a good place if you look at it from that perspective. YOU are still trying to decide what you will and will not do, accept, allow, etc...Letting go might have been essential to your wife learning whatever she will learn - just as I did - and the same probably holds true for you. Until you let go, WITHOUT the bitterness I see seeping in, you are potentially going to be your own worst obstacle.
Yeah, I know her life is not a picnic and I still have 'expectations'. I want them to go away and I can only do that by cutting her out of my life more. Understood, but when it's done with the bitterness that I hear in your posts, it's not being done right. Be careful of your natural tendency to put up walls, Frank. They will hinder you terribly. I know you don't fully grasp what I'm saying but be aware and be careful nevertheless. Letting go of her - minimizing her involvement in your life - is critical to you right now, yes. But the anger that makes you finally make the move IS NOT THE RIGHT MOTIVATOR. I'm probably not expressing myself well....UGH....you have to deal with the anger at the same time that you are exercising her from your life for your own good!
I do understand and agree with you when you say "She's out there growing up. Let her. It doesn't mean she doesn't appreciate the kindness you show her. It just means SHE AIN'T DONE. ."
No, she isn't.
I just want to move on, that's all. I'm the custodial parent which means I don't go out. She may not have a 'home' but she has a companion. I hear you, Frank. I know. But you CAN go out. Your kids are 13 and 17. You can leave them home alone for a couple hours in the evening. DO IT AND GET OUT OF THE HOUSE!
I just want to stop caring No, you don't! Not really. You just want to stop hurting. There's a difference and time will help with the pain. You're going to need to quit ripping off your own scabs though. Which means, NO EXPECTATIONS. CUT HER LOOSE. Talk about the anger with your therapist. .
We aren't decorating tonight. We'll do it tomorrow.
Amy, she was 'miserable' because she felt helpless and a victim. As our counselor said, she could have decided to be 'happy' and keep the marriage together, keep the kids happy. I never did anything to stop her from doing what she wanted to do. Never.
Then your counselor was full of crap because your wife could no more "decide to be happy and keep the marriage together" than I could have back in the day. A person can't make a friggin choice when they ONLY SEE ONE OPTION aside from the life they're living that wasn't working.
Should she have tried to save the family? YES Should she have gone to counseling alone? YES Should she have exhaused all efforts, including online resources as you have, to find out wtf was wrong with her head? YES Can she go back and change the fact that she took what some would consider the easy route? NO
But Frank, sometimes things have to be torn completely down before something new can be built. There are lessons your wife never learned. Just like the ones I never learned. THIS is what I comprehend about your wife that you do not. THIS is the aspect of her journey that I respect and you do not. No amount of sucking it up for the good of the family will change that which SHE DOES NOT KNOW. She had to go. Whether or not she grasps the lessons that she is already being taught is solely dependent upon her willingness to consider that she doesn't know one damn thing about life and love. Nobody knows what she will do. Or how she will change. Except the One Whose hands you are supposedly to be placing her in every night. Your anger is going to prevent you from doing that if you don't get it under your feet.
"The effectual, fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much"
Frank, what Bworl says is very good. I too am wondering what you are expecting to happen by living in this status quo condition where your W has a little of both lives.
One warning on any legal action - make sure it is what you want and try to use a mediated one if your W is reasonable.
You have stuck this out far longer that I would have. I cant say that is a good thing or a bad thing, but I hope you get some "adult" love back in your life soon. Enduring this for as long as you have surely takes something out of you. I am also sure you have learned a lot along the way.
A weird thing happened to me today - my STBXW asked for a second chance. She also stated that she will always be an angry person - sure made it easy for me to say no. I did tell her to put it behind her and move on and chalk it up as a life experience that hopefully she wont repeat. I say this to you, because if you do proceed with legal action and zero hour approaches, be wary of any last ditch efforts by your W to continue with the status quo separation.
BTW... That was not the first time I have read of your D17 having a very clear attitude on the boundaries of her mother. You should be very proud of her and hope that D13 takes after her.
But Frank, sometimes things have to be torn completely down before something new can be built. There are lessons your wife never learned. Just like the ones I never learned. THIS is what I comprehend about your wife that you do not. THIS is the aspect of her journey that I respect and you do not. No amount of sucking it up for the good of the family will change that which SHE DOES NOT KNOW. She had to go. Whether or not she grasps the lessons that she is already being taught is solely dependent upon her willingness to consider that she doesn't know one damn thing about life and love. Nobody knows what she will do. Or how she will change.
Just to be clear Amy, I understand what you are saying. This isn't an 'MLC', this is something that has been building up for years. I needed her to be strong, she didn't know how to be 'strong'. She only knew what she had learned as a child.
I understand. It hurts but I do understand.
I hope she learns the 'lesson'. as for me, I need to withdraw some so I can get my own lessons to 'stick'.
I don't intend to be mean or angry. I just need a break. I don't know if she will ever learn the lesson, but I do know that the day I first met her I understood that this would eventually happen. I'm not saying that I was supposed to 'wait for her' to grow up. Just that I knew if we had difficulties that she wouldn't be there. Just like everyone else in my family wouldn't be there.
I'm backing away from her for now.
I spoke to D13 tonight about decorating the house. She said "Mom kind of inserted herself into the decorating but I don't think she should. She doesn't live here and it's our house. You should only decorate if you live here"
She was tearful and angry.
I asked her what she wanted to do and she said that D17 and D17's BF and D13 and I should decorate.
I asked D17 what she thought and she said she didn't really care as 'decorating for holidays' was moms 'thing'.
Which is true. W was the one who was into decorating the house. As always, I was happy to let her do whatever she wanted.
