Last night my W and D7 went to the movies. I stayed home and watched football. This was a 180 for me...I normally would have gone with them...as I say in my threads...we do everything together.
When they got home the first thing my W asked was if I had gone anywhere or done anything while they were out. Seems like she was worried about where I was at.
Also lots of eye contact and conversation. She watched the Texas/Texas A&M game with me tonight. We had a good time talking about "football." Who would of thought...
I got a very similar explanation from H: he sais he never knew whether I was really happy and my moods were too volatile. Not enough to leave someone, you know?
Not to say there were not kernels of truth in what he said. But boy if he could just spend enough time with me now, he'd see a different person. I guess that's what we are all trying to achieve, right?
Hi JWM, I have been reading your thread and I was so sure I had talked with you before, but I cannot see where I posted anything. Some of the names and the threads begin to kind of run together after a while. Please don’t take that personally. As others have said, so many of our stories have much in common.
Anyway, if you don’t know me, I’m Sandi and I was an almost WAW. I really can’t give you any wiser advice than what these other WAW’s have given you, but I feel drawn to this and want to add my two cents worth (hush Puppy).
My background and story is too long, but I can back up what my other sisters here have told you. Listen to each of them. My EA was with a man over the Internet that I never met face to face. But it was a very powerful “drug of choice” for me. When you talked about how happy your wife was when you came in from church and even baked cookies……your first thoughts was she must have contacted OM, but you did not think there was time for anything to make that much difference. Those weren’t your words, but something to that effect. Listen to me, my H could run down to the corner store to get some milk and bread and I would break my neck to get on the computer to contact the OM. How long does it take a drug addict to give themselves a shot? It was the same effect for me. Just to hear him say, “Hi baby” made butterflies in my belly. Sickening, I know. But, never out guess a woman who is addicted to getting her ego fix from another man or men. I started out with a list of “men” that I was contacting until my H found out and confronted me. Then I kept one OM and the more my H pressured me and got angry with me and made ….what I saw as “demands” ……the more secretive I became. I promise you that you cannot force her to stop all types of contact if she is determine to do it. She will tell you she has stopped just to get you off her back, but if she has not overcome her addiction or receiving help (willingly) to overcome it……she is still making contacts somehow….someway. I don’t know what her business is or why it is failing…..and there was another person I had read or talk to along those same story lines and I guess that is why I thought I had talked to you. But, have you asked yourself why her business is failing? You said that she only has the daytime to contact OM. So, have you seen in black in white what the problem is with the business? Does she have others working with her? Just wondering if she was using her “work time” for other things.
She reminds me of myself by staying there with you but not seeing a future with you. She is biding her time. She if figuring out how she is going to do whatever it is she wants to do. I am going to tell you something I have never told my H b/c it is so shameful and I would hate for him to know how low I was ready to get. When I was thinking about leaving him………all I had on my mind was “freedom” to do what I wanted to do. However, I was going to move to another town so I could really do what I wanted to do and not have somebody that knew me watching over my back all the time. I was so addicted to the Internet chat room thing with OM until I was actually thinking of leaving my H of many years and finding some hole in the wall to live just to have privacy with a computer and hook up with OM on line. Do you know how that embarrasses me to tell all of you that? But, I will….if it will wake some H’s up. I’m not saying that you have not woke up, JWM, but maybe somebody reading this. Never underestimate the mind of a WAW or an AWAW b/c they are not the women that their H’s married!! I was just like whatdidido when she said she was the last person to suspect of doing what she did. I was exactly the same way. I am surprised my poor mother did not kill over with a heart attack when she found out…..and probably would have if she had known the extent of my addiction.
When you have an AWAW living under your roof, you cannot force her to go to any meetings, counseling, read books, watch movies……b/c she doesn’t want to do any of it. Oh, and about her being afraid when you were acting “upbeat” that she was giving you hope. I went through the same thing. I couldn’t even be nice to my H without him getting all giddy acting (well, he would have if I had continued to be nice) but when he responded by kissing my shoulder……my first thought was, “I knew it….I just knew it! He thinks b/c I said something civil that everything is going to be fine again”. So, don’t over-kill with trying to be too upbeat b/c it will give her the wrong impression. You have to find some balance b/c you don’t want to be all sulked and moody, either.
Why should you be the one to make changes and to have to do all the work and her do nothing? B/c she doesn’t want to. She doesn’t want to save the M. She doesn’t want to be there with you now. If the M is saved, it will be b/c you worked you case off by Dbing. Why can’t she see what she is doing to her daughter and how this is affecting the child? Ever heard of the “fog”? Why do you think they call it that? One of the biggest mistakes H’s make is still thinking that woman is his wife. She isn’t. Therefore, he has to treat her as though he isn’t M to her…….in ways. (Please be realistic with me.) When it comes to drawing boundaries, etc., I think of that as marital respect for each other…….and yes, I agree with it. And, if she steps over that line, I think the man needs to be prepared to stand his ground. But as far as thinking he can treat her as he did before (like he treated “his wife”) I don’t think he can, b/c he is dealing with someone different.
To try to cut this short (ahem) I will say to you in hopes of some tiny bit of encouragement, that I am still here in my M and although it has taken me forever (it seems) to try to get my heart fixed, I never left and I did stop the contact with OM…….but it was of my own free will….not out of my H forcing me (that will be for another long post). The best thing he did was to leave me along. We almost lived in two separate parts of the house b/c I could not stand to be in the same room with him. I felt like I was here b/c I was forced to be here due to other reasons….not force from my H. But, to say the least, I was not a happy camper! However, my H stayed the course. I can see more clearly now, and from the help of the great men here on the board, how painful it was for him and how close he must have come to completely giving up. Out of anger, he told me he would never give me a divorce, but I knew he could not make me love him……and so did he. All I could see were his faults for months while I continued to stay here in a place where I was so miserable. He backed away and politely detached, except when I would make a move toward him. He detached to the point I almost got disgusted thinking, “Well, isn’t he even going to try to change anything about himself?” Man, how sick! Infidelity is not a sickness…..it is a sin. But, I can understand what the experts are talking about, now, how all this EA stuff and even the PA’s are like an addiction. It certainly was in my case. It was new and felt great and gave me what I had craved for a long time. I did not want to give that up. But, I did, with God’s help……and a lot of help from smart people here……and prayer.
If you have the patience, I think you can draw her back to you. But, you may have to wait a long time for this to get worked out and worked through. My stitch was different and my kids were grown. My heart goes out to you. I have to stop……already posted way too long. If I can help in any way, please feel free to ask.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi, thanks for the post. This is a relatively new situation. I am not forcing her to MC and have completely stopped asking about OM...even though it is hard for me not to say anything.
We were able to talk about her shutting down last weekend and you are right on target. She told me that because I was so upbeat that she got scared that I thought she was back in the marriage. I told her that I understood she wanted out. She felt better, we cooked supper together, and we had a good night.
The same thing happened the next day when I asked about her business. She shut down and started crying. I spoke to her gently and told her I did not intend to cause pain. I was just asking about her day as I've done for a long time. She said she understood, came out of her room and we had a good night with lots of interaction.
Over the last two days, I know she has not contacted the OM in any way...she just has not had any opportunity. She is going out of her way to do small things for me, we are talking, laughing, and doing things together. She is making a lot of eye contact almost as if we are dating again. I am walking that fine line of not being too upbeat, but positive, and never talking about the R. She has even asked where I was last night while she and D7 went to the movies. When they got back she actually watched a football game with me...we had a good time together.
Something has shifted a little, but I'm not getting my hopes up...time will tell.
Good for you for recognizing the positive and for keeping it in perspective. I have noticed in my own sitch that being able to do just that is really beneficial to oneself.
It is so hard to accept that everything is on their timetable, not ours.
Beth, your right...that timetable is the tough part. It is also hard to try and see things from both sides...hers and mine. Our spouses are hurting a lot also.
I agree with what you've said about our spouses hurting, too. That is the reason I am not angry with my H. It has been suggested that getting angry might help me stop crying so much. I just cannot do it. And believe me when I tell you I am capable of that emotion.
How does one get angry at a loved one who is not well?
I am going to a funny movie this afternoon and then thinking about another run and then a workout but I will be around the boards. I am never very far from this place these days. It really is my lifeline.
How does one get angry at a loved one who is not well?
I started to say something along those lines myself, but I know a WAW or AWAW is self centered to the point she can't think of anything but her feelings and needs. I know if it was some type of "sickness" that it would make it easier, in some ways, for the H to deal with her and be patient. However, I can see how it would be almost impossible not to take everything personal since it is intertwined in the whole MR.
J, I am glad to hear your response. I think that is the ticket in your situation. It isn't the way to go for every couple, but I think it can work here.......for now anyway, if something else doesn't happen to make matters worse. If she feels that the pressure is off of her, as far as you getting your hopes up that she is going to change her mind toward the M, then she will begin to relax more and you can show your better side and be more fun for her to be around. That is when you take advantage of the opportunity to outshine the OM. Not by smothering her or any of the other stuff that has already been mentioned, but acting as if you are her best friend. That is a big turn-off for a lot of H's and they think that "they are either going to be husband and wife in the fullest sense or nothing at all....none of this BF for them!" Well, then most of them will lose. There have been men to draw their W's back to them by becoming their BF and starting a new R with them. The funny thing is that the W really isn't aware of what is happening (I don't think) as far as her being drawn back to him as a wife. She is just thinking that it is nice that they can get along and be friends.
This is, however, where things get complicated. At least to me it does. If you find out that she is still making contact with the OM, and she knows that you have found out.....then you are backed into a corner. You cannot give her "permission" to date while she is M to you! The idea that a woman would even say anything about wanting to date another man some day, blows me away. But, anyway.......how are you going to deal with this? Are you going to sit her down and have a heart to heart and say, "Now W, this is what I need from you as long as we are legally M and living under the same roof, and that is you show me respect by not having an A with anyone". Which she will see as leaving a door cracked for her to still "contact" the OM but she's not calling it an A. Or.....will you say, "Wife, I must have boundries in this R if we continue to remain under the same roof and that is you show me respect by never having any sort of contact again with any other man without my knowledge or in any inappropriate manner. Will you give me your word that I can trust you with this?" That narrows her options a lot. It could also make her mad as her seeing you demanding, controlling, and treating her like a child and therefore, causing her to rebell (like I did) and just get more sneaky. Or, you could say something along the lines, "Wife, I have thought about our living arrangements a lot and I know you are not happy being here. I have no intentions of putting any sexual pressures on you as a H. I know you want a divorce and even though that is not my desire, I will not continue to battle you over it. I will not knowingly apply any unreasonable expectations of you while we continue under the same roof. However, I do request that you show me respect by not continuing any inapprobiate contact with other men and I think you know what type of contact would be considered to be disrespectful to me. I will show you respect in the same manner, and I will make no inappropiate contact with other women while still M to you. In the meantime, I hope we can live peacefully together and even try to be friends. I will not drill you or put you on trial by questioning you about your daily activities, so a certain amount of trust is being used here......if we can agree to these boundries. Will you agree with me to do this?" Now, of course, you would use your own words and I'm sure somebody could find all kinds of faults or loopholes in that example....but it is just an example. But here's the thing. She thinks that you are wanting to be "just friends" until the two of you can get a D. She is thinking, "Yeah, okay, I can hang on that long." Maybe she will even be loyal to the agreement and not cross the line. But, I would not hold my breath. However, you have drawn a line in the sand, so to speak, so she would have to get pretty brazen with her EA or a PA for you to discover it.....and since she doesn't want it exposed to anyone else.....I don't think she will b/c she thinks she can hold out.
The point is this, J. It buys you time!! I don't know the legal stuff where you live and maybe she can get a D in 60 days whether you want one or not.....I hope not. But, even at that.....wouldn't showing her the very best man that you can be for 60 days be worth more than what you have been going through? At least you can tell your daughter some day that you did all you knew to do to save the M. You gave it your best. B/c if she is going to file for D and if she goes through with it......she is going to with you as her friend or her enemy. Some men say that won't be just a friend......and I understand that. But, can you do it for at least 60 days...or however long you have? Can't you charm the pants off her (literally...lol) during the time you may be given to win her friendship and maybe even rekindle a flicker of love? You did it the first time around. Can't you do it again? That is what I am hoping you will shoot for. I know that nobody....man or woman wants to be disrespected and made to feel like a fool. I am not suggesting that you do that, either. You may even decide not to have a heart to heart talk about drawing a line in the sand at all......that is up to you. I am saying that if you do....please be careful how you state your words and don't back yourself into a corner that you will be sorry for later. You sound like a very smart man and I think you are going to make the best decision for what is right for both of you.
Well, I did not intend to write back this soon, but I'm not able to do much of anything today and I happen to look back and there you had already replied.....so I couldn't resist.
Take care, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I tried to edit and waited too long. I was kidding about charming the pants off her....I hope you realize that. My weird humor. I was meaning that you were to show a lot of sex appeal and personality. You've read it all here before, I'm sure about how important it is too look good, smell great...the whole bit. Okay...I'll try to hush now.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi, I've done everything I can with what I've got. Lost 53lbs, lean, hard, abs, new wardrobe...even got the new cologne based on recommendations here. Seems like everyone but W notices.
We had a blow up this afternoon. We went to a Christmas tree farm with D7. While I went back to the car to get D7's coat the hayride left. W could have asked the driver to wait a couple of minutes. When everything seems OK on the surface, she seems to find a way to do the passive aggressive zinger.
So back to square 1 on the communication front...
Regarding your earlier post...we do have an agreement not to see other people or communicate with them while we are in the same house. We are still wearing our wedding rings. I am pretty sure she has not communicated with OM over the last few days. We have been together most of the time. She knows that if I find out that she will be embarrassed in front of everyone. Friends, family on both sides are talking to me...she has pushed everyone else away.
