Stage 2.25

[One Day]

Hi ITH,

My blood ran cold.....I guess I wanted something more definitive

Watch those expectations- remember to have NONE!

"I have been letting things ride and just see what happens. I still feel the way I feel but I want to try for the next few months and see where we are at. I am trying, I really am. I am trying to open,

This all seems good

I am giving things a chance like you want.

Ummmm......not so good- he's feeling under pressure from you still, and seems to let slip that he's doing this to make you happy? I've been following your thread so I know you've been trying more physical affection and so on, but I think you need to back off doing that- it's something that meets your needs rather than his at the moment and you'd probably be better off backing off a bit from that and seeing what happens..... just a suggestion though!

It is nice being together. Lets see what happens.

This sounds good!

Is this good or bad? I wanted a recommitment...

Watch those expectations! A recommitment isn't a baby step- it's a giant leap. The e-mail contains a few baby steps- be pleased with them and lower your expectations!

"lets just adapt a bit, let me get some time with things as this and for the new year we can do this. i still need to do a lot of thinking, and i still need time on my own. i still need time to myself. i am not saying i will not go to counseling, i will, just give me some space."

How do you think you could give him his wish? Do you think it's physical space he's asking for? Or mental space? IMHO it's probably mental space, so fewer calls, texts etc.... I'm just guessing though....

And at the same time I'd sent another email, one I never should have sent saying I love him and that I want a fresh start. He emailed back saying things are not alright and I shouldn't assume anything, to slow it down a bit.

So the lesson here is no pushing- it didn't work and took you down a cheeseless tunnel!

In one way an acknowledgment of trying qualifies me for piecing but trying is not a recommitment...

Why the pressure on yourself to reach a recommitment goal? Could you revise this expectation/goal and set a series of baby goals instead?

I don't know how to slow things down. Other than today's email, I have been backed off.

Hmmmm...... I'm not so sure- see my comment above. Let your H lead things. It's going to be hard for you to do, and you'll need to dig deep and be patient. Expect nothing and you'll always be pleasantly surprised!

I have to say that IMHO you should be pleased, so I'm very confused about why you're not. I agree that sending the ILY text (and probably asking about the MC) were pushing him a bit, but it's done and he's not ready, which is fine. He's trying- I'd love my H to say that! (Or would I? Having a questioning my goals day today!)

Well done! Keep going- you're going to do this!!

L. xx

[naej]

istherehope,I haven't posted to you before but I read some.
I can only say that your husband has been telling you for some time what he wants and needs, please listen to him.
It is hard not to take the small positives and want to run with them,to magnify them in your mind and draw your own conclusions.
You must allow him space and have two speeds, slow and very slow.
He is trying to be honest with you, he does not want to give you any hope other than that he is trying. For now be happy with that.
No this is not recommitment, this is your H giving the relationship another go to see how he feels about it. He could bolt if you do not allow him this space and slowness he requires.
The choice is yours as well. Can you go very slowly or are you tired of this speed?
Find the patience you need and then some.
One more thing do not reply to his emails until you have time to digest what he has said, you have a tendency to knee jerk reactions. Try the 24 hour rule if possible.

[istherehope]

Hi Lisa and Naej,

Thanks so much for your posts.

Lisa, in response to him saying that he's trying like I wanted, I think this is in response to our last conversation, the one that happened nearly 1 month ago now...You're right, I should be pleased, and I was about to post a follow-up message saying that I was feeling more positive after reflecting on things. In terms of giving H space, it's weird, I had also sent an email (over a week ago) saying I was happy to stay at my friend's house when needed and that he just needed to let me know. I actually think he wants me to be here with him, so I think it's emotional space that he wants. I honestly don't even usually text/email/IM except in response to him. Today's ILY was a kneejerk reaction email to his...it was a mistake, but not indicative of my normal behavior. I think what I can do towards giving space is just back off completely on absolutely everything. Like you said, the physical affection... Signs had pointed to it being OK, but no harm in backing off now. I will react only. I will also not initiate any emails or any other non-necessary contact, even though I really had been pretty good about this--I'll go back to completely reactive only. Yeah shouldn't have pushed on MC either. He did say he would go, but honestly I won't bring it up again unless things change in some dramatic positive way...

Naej-thanks for visiting my thread. I agree that I need to take things slow. What is hard is that he gives what seem to be very big indications that he is ready to move forward pretty quickly, but then his words say something different. I can go slow. I really can. I do wish that we were in counseling so that I could get a real understanding of what slow actually means for him, but I will guess for the moment that it needs to mean him leading on absolutely everything, and me continuing to just act like a very good friend that shares his bed...Yes you are so right on the 24 hour rule. I wish I had stuck to this today, or at the very least just said thank you, and that I would reply later. I also wish that he would not send emails about his feelings, but I think this is how he is capable of expressing himself at the moment...

All, I left the sale early tonight, and was hoping to have a few hours to calm myself down. As Lisa said, I should be happy. I am happy and I must have sounded so ungrateful earlier. I am not. We have come a very long ways. I just expected the first conversation to be even more positive, my mistaken expectations. It's the marathon not the sprint, and we are walking in this marathon, not running...

So H skipped his 2nd class and came home about 2 hours early. I was sort of disappointed, but true to character, H did not mention our email correspondence. He came upstairs and asked what was for dinner. I made some quick food, and we sat and watched a show together, sitting really close with him leaning in toward me. He made some joking references to ML, and all seemed normal. We joked around about some other things, nothing heavy. In fact in the kitchen he was semi-physically affectionate with me...

Now he is playing video games, and I am about to go to bed. I am going to remain positive, as he told me I should take this in a positive way, and I know he has opened up to me a lot by even admitting he will try. I will be positive but like I said above, will not push on the physical affection anymore. I will not spurn his affections, but won't lap them up like a puppy dog either....

OK, will post tomorrow. Hoping for a calm and positive rest of the night.

ITH

[istherehope]

I know that I freaked out a bit last night at an email that many people would kill to receive. I've been thinking about this, and I want to explain a little bit more...

I've been in the house with H for 3 weeks now, and things have been consistently positive. We have made a large purchase together, talked about bringing home another pet etc. There has been limited physical affection, but it's increasing, even from his side. He has been complimenting me every now and then, and seriously acting like he is in love with me again. So given all this, I guess I expected that when H broke the R silence, it would be purely positive and not an email peppered with caveats about not taking things for granted and not making assumptions. I was also a bit disappointed that he sent an email, knowing I would be out with my friends when I received it, instead of just having a real conversation. It took me back to those dark days in Poland where he sent guilt-ridden emails on a semi-regular basis. He would usually send them at night from class (just like last night). So instead of taking the 2 big positives from his email, 1) that he has made the decision to try and 2) that it is nice being together, I focused on the uncertainty. It just doesn't reflect his actions and attitude around me, so I felt like I was being lied to either in his actions or in this email. I still think he is confused, and I know I need to be more patient...confused and trying is loads better than confused and saying we need a D.

So I don't actually think it was such a terrible thing that I asked him about MC in a followup email. His response was OK and that he would do this in the New Year. I won't ask again, but it was something that we had been discussing previously and had been on the table. The ILY email I sent was dreadful. I said "ILY, I want to go on a vacation with you, I want to go to counseling and have a fresh start." I meant all of those things, but it wasn't the time to say them. I think I've felt stifled for the past several weeks so as soon as I got an opportunity to speak openly, I jumped on it. I think I managed to extricate myself from the bad email chain though by just saying that I would try to be more mindful of his space and of going slow. I also said, in response to his email that said I should take this as positive news the way it was intended, that I knew he was right and that I looked forward to doing the work of trying and of learning to communicate together better.

When H came home last night, all was fine. It was not even slightly tense, and he did not avoid me, nor I him. In bed he once again was a little bit affectionate, stroking my stomach. He also put his leg over me for a bit. Throughout the night and morning he would move closer putting his arm on mine.

Ali if you're reading this, do you think that his sudden need to express himself had to do with any planetary changes? Didn't Uranus go direct yesterday?

Thanks all for keeping me a little bit grounded, and Lisa a special thanks again for saying that this was positive news and that you were surprised I wasn't taking it as such. I think the more we get, the closer we get to the end goal, the harder it becomes to go slow. It feels like we are reconciled already, and when I get these reminders that we aren't actually there yet, they hit like a ton of bricks...

ITH

[istherehope]

Just logged into IM and saw some missed messages from H last night, just before he sent me that email. Again they were good...he said the next few weeks were going to be really stressful with his test and such, just so I know. The he said thank you for being so great about the computer and cooking. Wow, an acknowledgment of my efforts!

Today he's said that we should try not to spend much this weekend, but that we should go to happy hour somewhere, go to lunch and have a drink. This is almost like asking me on a date...

Right, I am calm again. Don't know what I was thinking last night panicking like that...

ITH

[VeronicaV]

Istherehope,

I am way behind you in this process and you are probably looking for advice from folks who are further along, but I will tell you from my outsider's perspective, those emails seem incredibly positive to me.

It seems that you, understandably, want the process to hurry up and finish now because you have been at it for so long. I do not know your sitch but I will give you a running analogy.

When I do a long run, like a 10K (6.38 miles) (well, it's long for me) after I have finished 5 miles (and feel like I just want it to be over) I always pick up the pace for the next quarter of a mile. I run too fast because I can see the end of the run and just want to finish it already. Inevitably the pace I take is too fast for me and I would never be able to finish a full mile at that pace. So, I slow down, even though I do not want to, and then I can finish.

Same thing here, I think.

I hope you do not feel like I am butting in. I just read your words, got really excited for you and where you are and thought I'd throw in my thoughts.

Beth

[istherehope]

Hi Bettou,

I am thrilled to hear from you! Thanks so much for stopping by my thread :).

I REALLY appreciate your positive thoughts and words. It is hard when you are in the midst of it not to wonder why you don't have more...it's like each step closer to the goal it's easier to see the goal, and you feel like you are there. I freaked out about emails that most people would love to get, because I was expecting what I had before the bomb. This was my mistake, and I am trying to reset expectations...

I love your running analogy, and I will try to make use of it. I am backing off and slowing down, as much as is possible now. I will still be doing nice things for H, but am no longer going to contact him, to reach out, or to initiate any kind of physical affection. I am going to let him dictate the pace even more than I had been doing, and do my best not to spook him and scare him off. We are close now, and slow is good. Slow is fine.

A big thanks to you. I always love hearing from new people, and your words of encouragement mean so much to me.

ITH

[VeronicaV]

ITH,

You are welcome. Thank you for the kind words. I completely understand what you are saying about expecting things to be as there were before the bomb. I fight that every day. It is like I have to reprogram every interaction with H (not that there are too many) and treat him like a stranger because that is how he is acting, yet, after 12 years together, I expect him to be the way I knew him to be. So, I understand what you are saying.

I am so glad to hear you are feeling better and more calm. I will keep following your sitch as I find it inspiring.

Beth

[istherehope]

Hi Beth,

That's so nice that you find my sitch inspiring. One thing I will say is that my H, though clearly still having issues, is very "advanced" in terms of how he is dealing with them. He sees a psychotherapist every week, works out 5 days per week, and is eating really well. He really adopted a healthy lifestyle in order to try and tackle his depression. So even though I am putting in loads and loads of work, I don't think we'd be where we are now if it weren't for his hard work on himself. Even though I get really frustrated sometimes at how slow he wants to take things, I think he is absolutely amazing and I don't know how many men would have been able to pull themselves out of the darkness like he has.

So last night we hung out, nothing too exciting. Actually I got home, dropped my stuff off, and ran to the store. H called while I was there, wondering why I wasn't at home. This was cute. Then I made dinner, and once again I offered to just bring it down so he could eat it while playing video games, but he said he wanted to sit with me instead. So we sat on the couch together and watched a couple of shows. It was just comfortable and peaceful. In bed he was semi-affectionate like he has been lately. This morning he was pretty sweet though. We were in bed and he wrapped himself around me and kissed my face. He said I was adorable, adding the usual "sometimes", but hey I'll take it! He also played with my nose, and told me how it is cute like a little button :). We talked about me getting my driving license and how we could add me to the insurance once this happens (note this is future talk as the appointments for driving tests here take months). I have a US drivers license, but I cannot drive on it here. I must take a driving test, and there is a several month wait period...

I offered to go to the store and pick up some berries for the smoothies he likes to make in the morning, and he said he didn't want me to go anywhere...

It's a frosty day here in Dublin, and H wants to hang out around the house and do nothing today. This is what I want to do as well, but I may go out for a few hours and force myself to do something, even if it's just grocery shopping.

Also, for anyone reading along, do I move to piecing now that we are officially trying, or is piecing when there is more of an actual recommitment? We are no longer separated, even though I have yet to reclaim my shelf and closet space.

Maybe I'll have something more interesting to post later :).

ITH

[optimistwife]

Hi ITH,

been away for the computer for a few days (I don't go to the site when my H is at the house). I guess that's good as he has spent the last 4 nights over.

I'm sorry to hear about your e-mail episode, but on the other hand, at least it gives you an idea exactly where you are- somewhere in the middle. Maybe closer to being okay, but still not there yet in his mind. I know you want to be in piecing mode, but I am guessing that he isn't ready yet.

It is a positive that he hasn't given up yet, but obviously still isn't ready for recommittment (complete) but is contemplating it with all his actions.

I too wish things would go at my pace in my R, but that isn't how it is happening. Just remember that we are the ones setting deadlines and timelines in our minds, and we need to forget those. Saving a marriage doesn't have a timeline. Divorce does. I know there have been several points along the way of this process where I could have pushed it and gotten the answer that I didn't want. My goal is by hanging in there for the long run I can have a good chance of getting the answer I DO want.