True, true...there is no rational response I can muster for making sense to her. I was reading a book that SmartCookie recommended - Sometimes I act crazy - they talk about what they call the SET/UP strategy - of support, empathy and truth...which I remember more as, I, you, us...in that support comes from saying "I" am concerned about her in some way (letting her know I care), empathy is from acknowledging that she ("you") is in pain, etc, and truth refers to the reality of taking care of our child - and doing what it best for him...I don't know if I'll ever get a chance to try out this method of communication - but if she does talk with me again, that's what I'll do...
The strangest experience of reading Sometimes I Act Crazy is how much I find my father in those pages...I've known the man all my life, have known his anger and sadness and incomprehensible attitude...but had no idea that he had/has so many characteristics consistent with a borderline personality disorder...and the parallels between my father and my wife are just eerie sometimes - especially when my sister calls me crying and tells me how he's treated her over the phone - accusing her of things she's never done, belittling her, telling her she's never loved him, never cared about him, telling her that he's never expected to have a daughter like her, breaking her heart - and damaging more and more...
It's horrible to hear my sister cry - and I know she wants to triangulate - get me to involve myself in their drama and talk to our dad about what they're going through - but it's just not my place to fix their issues...all I could do was tell my sister that she empowers him too much and that she has to let go of his anger and not make it her own...but she can't - she's like a crushes little girl when he attacks her (she's a year older than I am...I'm the youngest of three). And I find myself giving my sister the same kind of advice I give myself in dealing with my wife...don't believe what s/she says about you, her attacks come from his/her own core pain and has nothing to do with you - despite how much it can seem like it - despite how smart they are and how much they can manipulate you into feeling like it's your fault, you cannot internalize their reality and let it consume you - when you do, you start to consume the life of those around you - like the children that depend on you...
Just a week after my sister calls me crying about my father's attacks, she tells me that her daughter is having trouble at school...my sister is convinced the trouble stems from a teacher that doesn't know how to deal with her daughter...from my pov, it's a little girl that's already picking up on way too much tension and anxiety from her parents...and they have to protect her...but neither of them knows how. I might recommend my sister read this book...oddly enough, having grown up with a person that presents with BP disorder I've been unexpectedly prepared for dealing with some of my wife's issues...must be part of my unfinished business...and also why I'm so attracted to her...she loves me in a way I've been loved before...and I associate(d) love with being treated in the ways she's treated me for our entire relationship...
My father left the house when I was ten, he was having an affair, and soon got remarried when I was twelve. He called us from Spain, on my birthday, to tell us that he was on his honeymoon with his new wife...I hung up on him...and stopped celebrating my birthday for years. When I hung up on my dad, my mother, sister and brother all got furious with me and told me how cruel I was...and yet I knew they were wrong...because what my father had done was wrong...and yet today, with what I'm going through, he has been one of the most honest, loving, compassionate, caring people I've ever known...and even apologized to me once for how I had inherited the pattern of his life...
He was separated from his second wife for four years --they separated when their baby was 2, ironically enough - during which time I lived alone with him - while I was in high school. During that time he was verbally and emotionally abusive to a brutal extent...and I learned to live through it by reminding myself that this man, despite his brilliance and respect as a professional, was wrong about me...when he would accuse me of being a bad, immoral and even stupid person...
As human beings we have a remarkable capacity to love and to forgive...I'm turning to that capacity in me now to love my wife, forgive her and let her go...I only wish it were not so very painful...
Hey JC...I would ask for legal advice / domestic violence advice as to whether you should reply to that email and/or what you should say about it. I am concerned that if you don't respond that it will look like an admission of guilt.
** Purple
As soon as you trust yourself you will know how to live. Goethe
Nice to "see" you...I've been wondering the same thing..when I saw her email, my immediate thought was - hm...she's setting me up to admit guilt to something that isn't real...the irony, though, is that if she were so afraid of me would she really have called me a dick for wanting to hand our baby to her from my arms rather than put him down? There's a contradiction in her own email that I don't think she was aware of...still...I do worry that she's trying to build up an artificial case against me...all the more reason to stay dark - and also all the more reason to talk to the right lawyer (which I haven't found yet, btw).
When reading her email again now - it's interesting to me that she wrote, "There is a history of violence in our relationship, in front of [our son], and you frighten me." She didn't say that it was me...so I wonder if there's a part of her that recognizes her own violence...
Never, and I mean, never in any relationship that I have ever been in have I been accused of being abusive - but I do know that when my father tried to hit me once - when I was sixteen - I stopped his hand and held him against a wall and made him stop...I've done the same thing with my wife...and in both instances the blame was put on me - my father accused me of being disrespectful and treating him in a way that no one else would ever dare - and my wife accuses me of being abusive just for trying to protect myself and her form her own actions...
A couple days ago her sister called me and told me that my W claimed I had strangled her when she was pregnant...I can only assume that she's referring to a night when she was threatening to cut herself with a pair of scissors and I had to wrestle them out of her hand...
...hm...sometimes, when I visit the memories, I can't help but think that where we're heading is the best option - separation...divorce...being apart from her is introducing a lot - hell - a ton of peace into my life. No anger, a better relationship with both of my kids, a healthier sense of self...of course I gave up a lot of myself over the course of our relationship - and that's my responsibility, not hers - but regaining that sense of self has been wonderful - albeit difficult at times.
I really think you must find a lawyer to at least talk to him about what is going on. Have you guys signed any papers saying you cant hand her your son? Why would she call the police? To report what? I am confused. Maybe you should have somenody else present at pick-ups etc? Maybe have them in public places? I dont know, this all sounds so...frustrating.
I would reply to the email saying something like
"I dont understand why you would be scared since I have never given you a reason to be scared of me, Still since you are emotionally unstable (OK maybe not that mean) I will happily agree to limit our interactions cause when they are hostile from your side affect/hurt our son and I want to avoid that."
Ok, maybe I am a bit mad at your wife but still I would write something similar. Maybe some more experienced people could help you out with this. xxx K
Hi Kalni: We haven't signed any papers or gone over any specifics of our separation since she moved out - when I tried to talk about the arrangement with her - and the legal parameters - she started threatening to take our son away from me - and locked herself in the bedroom as she yelled at me, calling me an f-ing mf...The next day she told me that she had called a battered woman's shelter - and that someone there told her that abusive men always threaten to take the child away from the mother and have her declared mentally unfit....this happened just two weeks before she moved out - and all because I had asked her to talk about how we would work out visitation.
When I mentioned that I would like to have our son with me at least 50% of the time - she lost it...saying that I had no right to more than 50%. She insisted that "at least 50%" meant no less than half - and insisted that it meant that I wanted him more than half the time. As it turns out, a "friend" of hers from high school (who is in school as a social worker) is apparently the one that told her that I am an abusive husband and that I will try to take our baby away from her.
My T and also two other T's I've spoken with all responded the same way when I described my wife's behavior to them - saying that they thought she was bipolar. She was supposed to have started T at the beginning of the month - and I know that she went once, but it seems like she's not going back.
I really can't make sense of the need to put the baby down before she picks him up...she just seems purely irrational. Last night, it was pouring rain when she came to pick up the baby, but rather than parking under the carport - where she and the baby would be sheltered - she pulled into the carport and then backed out to face the street and stayed in the pouring rain.
I called our MC and asked her if she knew any lawyers that had experience with bipolar cases...she wasn't very helpful - but I did managed to get at least one name...so I spoke with a lawyer who I think has a background as an C. His recommendation was kind of frustrating - he mentioned that if she is bipolar that it might be best to wait for this cycle to run its course, and that then, once she's calm again, to approach her about going to mediation. He recommended keeping our divorce out of court - since she would most likely manipulate the system and get what she wants...this is the second time I've heard this kind of advice from a lawyer...and it's very upsetting as it makes me feel so very helpless - especially since there's no way I can have her go in for a psych evaluation - which I think is necessary.
I wasn't sure why she threatened to call the police at all - especially as I was just apologizing to her for having snipped. When she said it I felt like she was just trying to stop me from talking - and stop me from saying anything that contradicted what she was thinking.
Sadly, the more and more she acts this way, the more I see my life as better without her. But she is the mother of my son - and so I have to stick it out in some way - not for the sake of our marriage - which I am done with - but for the sake of our child.
Here's a draft of what I'm thinking of sending her:
"I really don't like the tension between us, and want us to communicate peacefully - especially around [our son]. I know that you're angry and I can understand that you get frustrated with me. But, we both have to deal with the emotional impact of this change on [our son].
This change, having two homes, is hard on him. Putting him down rather than just handing him to you when you come by just isn't how we've done things before - and I worry about the message it sends him. Everything we do or say, or sometimes even don't say, is having an affect on him, and so when I bring him out to you at night, I try to make it as normal as possible for him - which, for me, means handing him to you and not just putting him down for you to pick him up.
I appreciate you're sharing your thoughts with me and opening up about what you're afraid of. I was just surprised when you threatened to call the police while I was trying to apologize to you for snapping at you the other night. It was very hard for me to hear you say that I don't care about [our son] - especially as I've been agonizing so much over how our lives are affecting him - and so when you accused me of not caring about him it just hurt more than you might have expected. Still, I'm sorry I yelled at you over the phone - that's all I was trying to say.
I am not angry with you, [L]. I understand and respect that you are doing something that is necessary for you - and I also know that it's a very painful decision. I truly wish all the best for you and I care about you very much."
...any comments would be more than welcome... -carlos.
Carlos, I am concerned that this situation could become another "domestic violence" incident instigated by her where you become physical to protect yourself or her. It's hard to say whether she is consciously manipulating, or just that out of touch with reality.
What other possibilities are there for the baby hand-off? Could you use one of those agencies which exist for the purpose of child exchange between parents? It would involve some additional hassle but could be well worth it. Because she has indicated that she feels threatened by you, I would think she would happy to make this change. If she balks at it, that would be an indication that her email was an attempt to poke you, rather to protect herself. Do you have any neighbors who might be available to observe and stand by to keep the peace? If you live in an apartment complex, is there a public area? Or some public place nearby where you could meet her?
I do think you need to get a lawyer to advise you about this. I tend to think that it would be better to not respond to her email, but if you do, that you respond directly to her threats to call the police and the nature of the DV history. I think it would be worse to respond to the email, without confronting the DV issue directly, than to not respond to the email at all.
PS: I do tend to think that she truly feels threatened by you because you have become the respository and the identified cause of those feelings. When she has to see you every day, however briefly, she can continue to think those anxious feelings come from having to see you. If there is any way you can use a third party to exchange baby without seeing her, I think it will work to your benefit in the long run. I suspect she would find that her fearful feelings are still there, and yet, no Carlos to blame them on.
Hi Dudess, Thanks so much for your concern...I worry a lot about her mindset too and plan on talking with a lawyer about it ASAP. That's a great suggestion that I contact someone to oversee our exchanges - as having someone there would certainly help protect me from her accusations.
A public place would also make a lot of sense - I live in a house - so she just pulls into the driveway until I come out with our son. She won't come to the door anymore - as she believes that it stresses our baby out to have her get him from inside the house...I think it has more to do with the fact that when she comes to the door he often runs away from her saying, no mommy, no mommy, stay papi...and hearing that is very hard for her. Of course, his saying that isn't about her - it's just that he likes to be settled into the home sometimes.
I'm still thinking of a way to bring up the DV accusation - and not react to it or seem like I'm defending myself...I will have to talk with a professional to see what would be best for me legally.
This is easily the most frustrating and frightening experience of my life...I just don't know what to make of her accusations when they come - so I just take a deep breath, focus on my son, and then step away...
Here's something I'm thinking of sending her:
"Hi, I'm concerned about your threats to call the police and your comments about the history of violence in our relationship. I haven't made any threats against you or our son, and when you threaten to call the police I worry about my future and the future of my children. In order to make both of us more comfortable, I am looking into exchange services that might make our nightly exchanges smoother and less dramatic for all of us. We could also try a public place or have someone else there as a witness."
