I screwed up again

[techguy]

Don't beat yourself up about your missteps (shoulder and PA reference). Yes, they were both probably not the best things to say. But the fact that you detect them is a step forward. DB'ing is <not> natural at first. It takes time to get the hang of it.

I would try to avoid calling W if possible. Is there someone else you can call to get updates? If there was, then you could avoid calling wife, but still not look insensitive.

I do believe the seperation will not be a bad thing for all the reasons you listed. Just try to have the best week you can in her absence.

[AnotherNightmare]

Thank you for your advice again. I also think it will be a very fine line I need to walk over the next 2 weeks. I will also need to refrain from any kind of complaining no matter how bad it gets here. One of her main complaints was that the kids are difficult and I leave her alone with them.

I had a good session with the C today. I talked to her very openly about what happened during our marriage and during the last couple of days. One thing I realized while I was talking that to an extent I probably walked away from this marriage as well, at least emotionally. The constant nagging just drove me into some of the hobbies, and like in a vicious cirle these hobbies now became the objects of her nagging. The C said however that she did not agree with walking away from it physically while at the same time stumbling into the next R. If my W does not understand or want to find out what went wrong this time, she will neither be able to repair this R nor will she be able to have a successful new R.
The C agreed with most of my other statements around avoiding R talk and carefully trying to get my W to go with me the next time. All in all the session has had a positive effect on me and my mood.

On another positive note, my W called after she boarded the plane just to check in and sounded very friendly for the first time in days. We had a brief conversation of one minute or so, then she had to turn off her cell phone. I told her I would call her tomorrow to let her know how things went and to talk about the kids. I think I will primarily use the kids as my motivation to call. I will also call her sister's number. I know she is staying there so if she wants to talk she can come to the phone.

The bad news is I will have a lot of time over the next two weeks while I am tied to the house watching the kids (I know I will enjoy that, so I am not complaining). The good news is I will have a lot of time for reading books and other threads, so maybe I will be able to catch up on somebody else's story and be helpful. Thanks so much! Every time I come to the board, it is refreshing to read about PMA, GAL and all the other little successes people have.

AN

[techguy]

One thing I realized while I was talking that to an extent I probably walked away from this marriage as well, at least emotionally. The constant nagging just drove me into some of the hobbies, and like in a vicious cirle these hobbies now became the objects of her nagging.

Same thing here. It's funny how I never even noticed I was doing it at the time. Nothing at all. It was just sort of a subliminal defense mechanism. I think it is pretty common for male LBS with WAW.

[AnotherNightmare]

Just came back from a seven and a half mile run. It felt good to be out there again, but it also felt depressing how quickly I got out of shape. My heart rate was higher, even though I ran 30-40 sec/mile slower.

After the MC session, I have been thinking a lot about the last 17 years a lot. So many things came to my mind, so I just want to write them down to draw a more complete picture:

When we met almost 19 years ago (we got married after a little less than 2 years), my W had gone through a separation probably 6 months before we met. She had not been married to the guy, but they had been together since middle school for about 9 years with a short interruption. Guess what, the guy had cheated on her. So I kind of picked up the pieces and she was the most loving girl-friend I had had. She always came up with new ideas, we talked a lot about our feelings (all positive of course), and even though she was very creative she always made me feel like I was leading (something I realized only in the last 24 hours). This changed over the next few years. I have no idea if I or what else could have triggered this change. She slowly started the nagging and it felt like she was trying to take control of me. I know I resisted that, and so the vicious circle started spinning, which probably led to our first crisis 11 years ago.
After she gave me the 100,000-Volt electric shock threatening to leave me, to divorce me, she clearly broke some of my resistance. Building that up again certainly took a long time, and then there were the kids for a change, so finally 11 years later we reach the same point again.

I have read a lot of posts. It seems the WAS stories are all very similar, and there is only a handful of cases where no OP is involved. What I have been wondering about is if anybody knows how many of those A with OP end up in a truly happy R? Is there any case at all where a WAS truly finds what s/he is looking for?

I guess I have been thinking too much. One minute I want to force it by threatening her there is a point of no return (whatever that means), then I am thinking of telling her to leave right now, I am thinking about what to negotiate if we actually divorce, but at the end of the day I know this is not my brain thinking, these are hurt feelings that will stand in the way of pulling this M together again.

Anyway, I called my W's sister this morning, but nobody picked up. A few minutes later my W called back. I asked her about her aunt and her mother. She had not visited her mother yet, but everything she said about her aunt unfortunately sounded pretty hopeless. Her voice was friendly and there was no R talk. I passed her on to the kids, until she ended the call. Not sure if this is progress, but at least it does not sound like a step backwards. One of the things the C said was that during these difficult times when death hits a family, it usually triggers some reflection. Unfortunately, it could go either way.

I hope everybody is having a good day.

AN

[AnotherNightmare]

Just doing some journaling today:

I am actually having a lot less time than I thought. My D5 did not go to kindergarten today, so I took her grocery shopping this morning. Coming back I started preparing lunch (we are still doing it the German way with a bigger lunch and smaller, usually cold dinner). My S8 and our exchange student came home before lunch. After lunch, I called my W's sister again and finally found out a little more about what happened. After 10 minutes, my W apparently walked in and took over. I did have to talk to her, because there were a few things that I had received from the school regarding our S8, so I wanted to discuss that with her. Again no R talk at all, but even though her voice was friendly again, she did seem a little less patient today. These mood swings are kind of normal with her. I wonder what kind of roller coaster ride it would be for her, if she were in my shoes. Anyway, after that I went for a run, which was a little better than yesterday. Overall, not a bad day.

When I talked to my W's sister, I thought back to our crisis 11 years ago. I remembered that everybody in her family including her mom was on my side and was pressuring her not to walk away like that (they did not approve of the PA at all). Suddenly I also recalled that when she admitted to the EA this time (even though she said the OM was just a penpal) she said something like "I warn you not to turn my family against me again". What is the general advice here on the board?
I remember reading that talking the OM's W is generally recommended and may help save the M. But what about your W's family? I know she has not told them yet.

AN

[nw626]

Hey AN
Just catching up on your post.
In my sitch, I have talked to OM's W and MIL.
It only stopped the A for brief moment even the OM's W contacted my W.
My W and OM are on and off past months. I guess the OM's W is somewhat watching him.
MIL doesn't agree on what she does, but she doesn't really confront her.
As of today, I think they are together again.
I think you can put a pause to the EA by exposing, but for how long? It is really up to your W/OM to decide when to stop.
Best of luck.

NW626

[AnotherNightmare]

NW,

Thank you for your input. Unfortunately, OM is divorced already. So OM's W is most likely not interested. I know last time her mother pressured her a lot, but not openly. Her BIL (we became very good friends after marrying two sisters) was the most disapproving of the PA and her walking away.
In the current situation, I will definitely not do anything. It could literally kill my MIL. But somehow I need to make it clear to my W that if she pulls the trigger on the D, I am going to tell them the entire truth including the EA. What I need to figure out is whether this would just piss her off or if it could actually stop her from proceeding. I am almost certain that time is my friend as far as the EA is concerned.

Thanks again,
AN

[VeronicaV]

AN,

You reminded me of my H and his family when you described your lunch/dinner habits. Belgians are like that, too. It made me smile.

I will leave the advice regarding OM to those who know, but will warn you that if she is saying things like "don't try to turn my family against me again" then she is sending you a message and I think you should be careful in your actions in that regard. From the way you described it, it sound as though her family were unhappy about her PA of their own accord, not because you said anything to them to turn them against her and yet she still thinks it was something you did.

I think it is human nature when someone close to us disapproves of something we know in our guts to be wrong to rationalize why our relatives are disapproving and you are the perfect scapegoat.

I will also tell you I have read enough posts here to feel pretty sure that whatever one says to inlaws will find its way to the spouse, so watch what you say. Lots of people here recommend DBing the inlaws right along with the spouse. I have had no contact with my inlaws sich H left and do not plan to for now. So long as I am not pursuing R with H, I will not pursue his parents. If I am not discussing R with H I will not discuss it with his parents should they contact me.

I had a good run today. At my peak I run about 16 miles per week - 10K every Saturday, 5K every Sunday and two more 5K's during the week. Since the separation, I have been struggling but I am fighting to get back to my peak. The endorphines are amazing. I posted earlier saying they only made me feel slightly better, but I was wrong. I feel a lot better.

Glad you are doing alright. I'll be around all weekend.

Beth

[nw626]

AN
I think it will pi$$ her off. At least it was to my W when I warned her about exposing her A. It just drove us further apart.
I think you probably best to leave this subject for now.
Give yourself a break on thinking about your W. We all need this.
Use your brief separation time to work on yourself and show her you are fine without her around.

NW626

[nw626]

AN and Beth
You both put me to shame....

AN: Seven and half miles run
Beth: 16 miles per week
NW626: 9 steps to computer

Priceless....for everything else, there is mastercard.