Carlos I just finish catching up. I haven't talk to you past days. I am sorry that your W seems to be getting worse. Do you think your W has the same anger toward S2? Like K said, calling the L may not be a bad idea now.
You can do this...
NW626
Me:33 STBXW:38 S:3 It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you fight the fight....!!
Hi Kalni and NW - Yes, it does look like things are getting worse - at least as the holidays approach. I'm now going completely dark and just letting her be - only communicating in matter-of-fact terms about finances and our baby via email. At least the email gives me a record of our interactions as well - though she never responds.
I started reading Love Without Hurt - and trying to understand more of what she might be seeing/feeling/fearing/etc. But it's strange - since the book is written with the belief that the husband is the abuser. While I can see where I've been emotionally and verbally abusive toward my wife in the past - I don't see the kinds of patterns in me that Stosny identifies in the abusive husband...and so, yes, I'm still trying to see things from my W's pov...but not to benefit her...rather to figure out more about relationships and how they should function. Having been in a terribly emotionally abusive marriage, I don't ever want to repeat anything like this ever again - it has never happened to me before, and still just leaves me bewildered sometimes.
In many ways, that conversation from a couple nights ago sums up how my W and I would interact over the years. I would be calm, try to talk about something difficult, she would get angry and start attacking, I try to stay calm, she pushes more buttons, I start to get tense, she pushes harder, and then I snap at her...and then she says, see, you're an abusive person....It's so damn frustrating to feel so twisted up like that - even when I'm sitting there thinking, be calm, stay calm, don't get sucked into her drama...but then she manages to accuse me of something like not caring about my son...after I've been literally peeling myself off the floor from weeping about how this is affecting him - and how much I wish I could do more to protect him from all this negativity...I had been in agony over the weekend - outright physical pain from all this and how it's affecting our baby - and so when she accused me of not caring about our baby it was just too much to bear...and in my weakness, I snapped...
That's what I have to work on - not letting her anger, her pain, and her confusion get into my head like that - and letting her go/going dark/removing myself from her life seems like the only way to do that.
But I'm going to keep on learning about functional relationship and marriages - I'm going to keep on working at being a better man - since I don't like to be the type that succumbs to her temper. It's hard for me to navigate this, though, since I've always stood up for myself vehemently when attacked - I think it's why I overcame my father's abuse in ways that my brother and sister did not. When my father attacked me with irrational accusations about who I was or what I thought, I did not let him get away with it - and I learned early on to stand my ground and remind myself that he was wrong about me - and I would fight him back...which is most likely why I fight back when my wife does the same...It was a learned survival behavior - but it didn't really solve things with my dad - and it certainly doesn't help me with my wife. So I need to learn a better, healthier form of self preservation - no matter what happens with my wife.
Hm...Wife...that just doesn't seem like the right word anymore. STBX isn't right either...she's more of a ghost to me than anything else. Hard to see, sometimes frightening, and always vanishing.
Carlos, theres hundreds of reasons and countless permutations of reasons, for her to react to you in the way she does. and no book, no logic, no amount of knowledge will give the correct reason at that precise moment in time.
i dont think your interactions with her will change much when measured in months, much less in weeks. dont expect too much or feel disappointed if there is little or no perceptable change.
my W also responded to me in her usual way, (after a couple weeks of light-hearted phone conversations without any abrassions) she was describing how our daughter gave her some flak. i started to explain how i handle that situation at my home, and she got that tone again. the anger was back. but where i would normally just shut down, i stood up and told her that i was merely explaining for background purposes so she can understand where Zophia may have gotten the idea her actions were acceptable. i think for the first time, she understood a little about my method of communication.
changing the habits created after 10+ years of a relationship will take lots of time. but since we're both raising our daughter, we have no choice.
you're doing great Carlos.
"In a ham and eggs breakfast, the hen is involved, but the pig is committed".
Hi KenF: You're so very right- I cannot - and never will be able to figure out where she's coming from - but I'm not going to try to do that anymore. The stuff I'm reading now, I'm reading for me - so that I can learn what I have to learn - so that I can understand why I was in this type of relationship - and why it's been so difficult to let go - and move on with my life the way I want to.
I don't expect anything from her anymore - really nothing at all - I hardly even recognize her eyes when I see her - which is also very strange.
It's going to take a while to heal - I can see that - but I know that I have to work on that - focus on healing, moving on, and taking care of my sons.
Changing the habit of a long relationship - even just for myself - will take time.
She just keeps getting worse...tonight when she came to pick up the baby he protested again - saying no mommy - and so I talked to him in an excited, happy voice - and then took him out to see his mom waiting be the car (she doesn't come to the door anymore). She came around toward our side of the car and, without saying hello, said, "put him down" - I was holding him and he was hugging me -so I said, "let me just hand him to you." To which she said, "don't be a d-ck." Once again, I was stunned...and I was just about to say goodbye to my son and go back inside when I instead walked back to her and said, "you know, I please don't insult me in front of our son. That's just wrong." And she apologized..but remained angry...
After that she told me that she wanted to pick up our baby early on December 2 (at 5pm) because she's "getting together with a friend that really wants to meet him." She said it in such a weird way - like she wanted it to sound mysterious and threatening to me...
When she left, I went into the house - and just felt another part of my heart break...not that I want to keep her in my life - or find a way to reconcile with her - but just hearing my son's wife insult me in front of him was just so very sad...very sad...
For the last ten years I've cooked for Thanksgiving - and she and i had made our own little tradition of making gourmet meals instead of Turkey...but I would be home alone this time - and so instead I'm going to spend it with some friends - my closest friend from high school actually happens to live out here too...so I'll be with him and his partner on Thanksgiving. And will then have my boys with me on Friday and Saturday - and then just my S11 on Sunday - so it will be a wonderful weekend.
Hm...I feel like I should clarify what I meant when I wrote..."I'm done." I mean that I am done trying to reach her - I'm going to focus on myself and my children - and that is all. Her life is her own now - for her to do with it as she will...but I will not put up with her insults in front of my son, and will not allow her to dictate how I parent our son. I am not locking her out of my life - having a child with her makes that impossible - but I am not going to let myself dwell on hopes of what could have been - or what could still be...so "I'm done" doesn't mean that I am angry with her - or finished caring about her - or feeling for her sadness and pain - it just means that I am done holding back my life for her.
the dwelling part is the toughest. many arguments still running through my head.
my STBX seems to be leading up to something, maybe i'm being paranoid, i just dont trust her anymore. but she mentioned something about our daughter acting up and about her being passed back and forth too much. leads me to believe she's been playing nice-nice to lull me into dropping my guard then she'll spring some bs about custody.
i just cant fathom how she doesnt understand that anything less than 100% with both of us together is what is affecting our daughter. any schedule of 50/50 custody will make Zophia hurt and act up.
maybe she just needs something to blame me for. i think she sees the pain Zophia is going through, when she's with her she cries for me. and i dont think she's strong enough to accept her role in this. acceptance would cause her house of cards to implode.
but Carlos, back to you. i dont understand the insults either, thats something i've never had to deal with. its really quite selfish, pardon me for saying that, and she's obviously in a lot of pain / turmoil / confusion. We're all adults, we need to be able to see beyond our own issues and keep a careful eye on how we affect the little ones around us.
I think the best you can do is try to find that middle ground where you minimize her opportunities to insult you, without becoming a doormat. Explaining to her that you wont accept her insulting you in front of your son is definitely the right thing to do.
"In a ham and eggs breakfast, the hen is involved, but the pig is committed".
Carlos KenF is right. I think you need to set your boundaries clear, probably not by telling her. She won't listen anyway. Just show her in action. Don't expect her to say anything to you anymore. Don't expect her to come to the door for you S2. Try to stay cool and stand firm on your ground. Like you said, this is her issues that she has to deal with. Please don't let her darkness affect you too much.
It sounds like good plan on T-day for you. I can feel you will have a wonderful weekend. Have fun with your boys and friends. You are a good man and father. You can do this...
NW626
Me:33 STBXW:38 S:3 It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you fight the fight....!!
"If I feel threatened by the way that you are acting or speaking, I will remind you that I can call the police. I would rather have more distance between us than risk aggression on your part. There is a history of violence in our relationship, in front of [our son], and you frighten me.
I apologize for calling you a dick. Its frustrating when it seems like you are trying to make picking [our son] up more emotional."
I hardly know what to make of this email...She threatened to call the police as I was apologizing to her for snapping at her the night before (when she accused me of not caring about our baby). And this history of violence she's talking about - especially in front of our son - is a fiction...at least if she's trying to hold me accountable. This spiral out of control began back in May - when she started kicking me in the back and then punching me - and I wrapped my arms around her to keep her still...she now points to that incident as proof that I abused her - even when we were in MC - and this incident came up - she said she didn't remember kicking me or hitting me at all...
Okay...so I do know what to make of this...I should just acknowledge it - appreciate the fact that she's at least letting me know what she's thinking/afraid of - and I should not try to correct her...the problem with that...is that she's very clever - and I think that if I say nothing about the "history of violence" comment it would be like admitting guilt - which I cannot do. Oh...the violence in front of our son that she's referring to comes from a point, just after she dropped the bomb, when I did the typical, stupid thing of grabbing our wedding album and throwing in on the kitchen floor - saying, please look at what you're throwing away. She and our baby were about ten feet away from the album - but she now claims that I threw it at them...
Ugh...enough of this already...aside from email about the baby, I'm going to continue to keep communications dark. I think I've already let her feel it's okay to insult me more than I should have...so now I won't be doing that anymore. Validating is one thing - but getting insulted so often is unacceptable - especially in front of our baby.
I think you're wise to be cautious with your SBTX, Ken. Just as it's important not to believe anything they say when they're angry - the same holds true when they're putting on the nicer face. Just don't let yourself get caught up in her drama - even if she is looking to blame you for things.
